Why am I blocked from voting for the picture of my choosing?

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"Whoa our other voters do not agree with your choice" I got a similar message when trying to vote between two pictures. Then it would not allow me to vote? Why is my vote being blocked because my opinion is different from other voters? That hardly seem like a fair practice.
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Anna Lieb

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Posted 6 years ago

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Aya de Ruiter

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sounds strange indeed....
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Chuck Vinson

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i got it as well. I am getting really tired of Pixoto. Often I have seen two images up for a vote that is obviously by the same photographer. I skip it. And I get the error message 500 when I attempt to upload new pics. Is there something scandalous going on or what.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Anna,

You have just encountered a new voter quality check that we have put in place. The two images that you voted on have a very large difference in score and if the system is working as designed then it should be very obvious which one is better. The votes on these images don't count they just are there to check the overall quality of votes being received by individual members. After serving 10s of thousands of these "false pairings" this is the first time anyone has even mentioned seeing it. If you get it again and you don't agree that the images are of vastly different quality please take a screen shot and post it here.

The way the system works is that you still are allowed to vote on the false pair, the warning comes up, and then you click OK and can continue voting. If this isn't what is happening please let us know.

I hope this helps.
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Jacki Barber

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" if the system is working as designed then it should be very obvious which one is better" - I don't think the system is working as designed because when I vote, I chose the image I think is better and I have not once deliberately selected an image that is "obviously" much worse than the image that is supposedly "obviously much better".

If the "obviously worse" choice was a blurry, pixelated, unbalanced, over-exposed accidental image of half of a shoe, (which, having a child with access to my camera, I happen to see a lot of), then I could understand this process. It would be more likely that someone is just clicking without looking. Though there still might be people who view the above hypothetical image as abstract, or have a shoe fetish, it would still make more sense, but every time I've encountered the error, the two images are both appropriate to the category, in focus, color balanced, etc.

I don't see "obvious" technical difference between the choices, they are purely subjective. Everything I've read thus far on the official Pixoto documents acknowledges the concept of subjectivity, yet still tells me I'm wrong for liking something the system thinks I shouldn't.
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Sandra Clukey

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I was just blocked, too. I have no idea why. The only thing I can figure is that I was voting from my ipad. Sometimes a bad picture can look a lot better on an ipad than on a computer screen because of the much smaller photo. The last dual I voted on was a dual between a parrot in full color and a pack of tigers in bw. I picked the tigers because I felt it was much more difficult to get a picture of a pack of tigers than it was to get a pic of a parrot. When voting I think the difficulty of the subject matter should count. With that said, I have never received the message when I vote from my computer screen. It only seems to be a problem when voting from my ipad.
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Aya de Ruiter

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sounds great! That will most certainly help avoiding some strange votes
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Dipali

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What I have observed is that the starter image starts dueling with images with score ranges between 400-500 of last week mostly. When it wins those images it duels with even higher scores. What Jason is referring to as "false pairings" are images with score of 700+ and 100 (final score after getting a lot of duels) or something like that.
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Susan Hogan

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No, I was asking about the new system... Could you please explain how it works? if voters can't vote for images with much lower scores, how do you rectify this when a new image is starting out?
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Susan Hogan

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Dipali - if my new image gets paired with a high scoring image, it will have a huge point disparity until and unless it catches up. And often, due to poor performance early on, an image will get paused, only to catch up later...
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Dipali

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Susan, if your image is better than the mid range score image it will win and as your image is starting, it has more chances of winning later too. The mid range image has reached it's plateau of a sort. The problem only is of speed clickers. This is why we have the resubmit button. Sometimes I have to resubmit a lot of times to get fair duels for my images. One of my image reached it's peak at 400 something and I can say that it was not a 400 score image. After resubmitting it a few times now has reached 661. Sometimes it's really frustrating. Pixoto has it's ways to keep a check on the speed clickers and will get better with time.
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Kees van Es

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Its simple some people dont like your picture, and if you dont like it dont submit picks????
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Echo

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Personally i think that Pixoto's image duel Algorythm is the most accurate & intelligent that you will find.

All art is subjective, Some vote constantly on cute puppies & kittens, some love sunsets, some pay no attention to quality. Some favour abstract & some hate flowers.

But generally....the best photos will score the highest. This is obvious from the leaderboard. Im sometimes surprised by my own images....how they fair on here. Sometimes pleasently....sometimes not. But hey......thats life huh.

The reason we all got into photography is the same.....enjoyment, experiencing life & nature in all its beauty & to show our creative sides. Were lucky enough to have the internet to share our work & even luckier that there are sites such as Pixoto....to give us all such a professional platform to share.

There are certain aspects in place to maintain this level of quality. The only way to keep image scores "true" are to create software that flags irregular voting.

Now, im not saying for a second that anyone here is voting purposely on bad images....but without intelligent software....irregularities will affect the overall quality of this website & leaderboard.

Im a member of many Photography & Art sharing sites.....& i genuinley believe that Pixoto is head & shoulders above the rest.

Never forget what a photo means to us & the enjoyment it brings....whether shooting or viewing. The worlds a fantastic place...absorb it & dont get caught up in the rat race. We only have one chance at it.
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Aya de Ruiter

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agreed Don, yes, there are some strange votes casted and in the beginning I was wondering why a majestic lion could loose a battle from a blurred jellyfish but in the end, most of the good pictures find their way up. It takes a few weeks to really get a feel on how things work here and, since I just started on this site, it took some getting used to but I'm confident that good pictures do get the rewards they deserve. And a good picture in my mind doesn't have to be a good one for somebody else..
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Susan Hogan

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I think Pixoto is great too, but also feel there is room for improvement... Yes, the better images *usually* find their way to the top, but not always... I think we often see the daily awards not going to the best image. There seems to be some issues with what appears to be "team voting", at least in certain categories.

I will say, it would be a welcome change to stop the disparate voting down of images, whether by intent or by laziness.
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Dipali

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I got one too Whoa.... It would not let me take a screenshot (neither Ctrl+Prt sc was working nor the Pixlr screen grabber) so couldn't post it here. but the images in comparison were not like one is very great and the other one mediocre. Both were mediocre.

1) Image A was of low light and not clear and the composition was simple. (Two penguins.)
2) Image B was of great clarity but the background was a little distracting. ( a Pigeon)

I chose image B. Maybe I was wrong. It was like making choices between 2 poor images. I think the score difference of the two images should be very large.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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I took a look. Of 43 false pair you have gotten you choose the higher ranked image 40 times (and thus got no warning). I can see why you thought the penguins was just OK. It was low light and the subject was really far away BUT I think members responded to the fact that the Penguins were holding hands - pretty cute. The other 2 you "missed" were also understandable because is was a guy with kind of a weird facial expression which apparently voters didn't like (I kinda did though). With better than a 90% voting record on false pairs surely you should be considered a very reliable and attentive voter.
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Dipali

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Thanks!
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Dark Reid

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Does the algorythm look at browser and hardware used? An image can look good on an iPhone but pretty awful on a full size screen - if you vote on what you see then the medium also plays it's part

Don Lumsden says it nicely - everyone has their own perspective. Enjoyment of sharing an image should outweigh the craving for recognition - but that does imply voting should be free from all influence (bias to vote for a friend or bias to vote for an image because Pixoto has conditioned you to through Whoops! brainwashing. If you want guardrails - I humbly suggest you could use them subtly on the site rather than overtly and intrusively. If you need the community to know you are improving voting quality (which is a fair and reasonable thing to do) - publish a cheat sheet for confirmed offenders together with a site ban for them (temporary or permanent)
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Garces & Garces

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This is a move in the right direction by Pixoto. Although we all agree that beauty is subjective, we can't also deny that there must be a norm of what is beautiful and what is not. It''ll be obvious if we pick an old AMC Gremlin car as better than a Ferrari car. This may not solve the problem 100%, but this one could be the first step.
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Lenore

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I would pick the Gremlin over the Ferrari. I will pick the old and broken and rusty over the new and shiny. I will pick the abandoned house over the mansion. I will pick the wrinkled old woman over the busty young woman. That is where I see beauty.

And that should never matter here -- that's subject matter and that's ALWAYS going to be subjective. Some people vote on technical quality, some only on subject matter despite the quality, and others, like me, try to find a balance between the technical quality of the shot and what their personal preferences are.

In my opinion, a technically perfect but boring photo would not win out over a photograph with excellent composition and a compelling subject. For example, the technically perfect shot of a red Ferrari would not be my choice if the other shot was of an old Gremlin, rusty door falling off, sitting abandoned in a farmer's field, even if the shot was not tack sharp. One shot is boring, one tells a story. Just my two cents anyway..........

And I have yet to see this new Quality Check when voting. I feel left out! :-)
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Susan Hogan

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Hmmmm.... I could see where this could be a problem... Like Lenore, I find myself bored by the repetitive, albeit technically excellent, shots that do little to convey mood or story... Yes, some of those macro insect shots are amazing (see Aya's post below) but sometimes, an image is more compelling because of the feelings it invokes. And sometimes, you don't vote for an image because you're sick and tired of seeing it, whether its excellent or not... There are only so many owls and eagles I wish to see soaring through the sky, for example, before it loses its impact. I might choose something else because it is more original and interesting...
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Garces & Garces

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The point that I was trying to explain is that there must be some sort of a norm of what is beauty or what is excellent. Yes sure you can pick Gremlin over Ferrari but if most of us chose the later then you can do nothing about it because majority chose it, and that is the norm I was pointing out.
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Aya de Ruiter

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ha!, got a message also..one picture was a macro of a fly, black&white, dead sharp and really good, the other picture totally different a landscape (or waterscape) with water slamming over a pier , high waves and a bit foggy..I choose the water picture as the mood and overal shot appealled to me more then the fly face...and then the warning popped up, made a printscreen and added it
so, 2 totally different categories, difficult to choose from and left open for debat :-)

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Lenore

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I would have voted for the water picture too :-)
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Aya de Ruiter

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:-) !
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Sandra Veech

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Those fly shots are incredibly repetitive and boring- we found several times where there were duplicate shots submitted by same photographer. Yes, the first time you see one, it's kind of cool- but then you realize it's a dead bug with water drops. REALLY? how often do you see a still bug just fresh out of the shower. It's unnatural, so in this case, I think that voting for the landscape would show that perhaps previous votes weren't completely reflective of true quality, and would be a reality check for the system. I think those insect photos get falsely inflated scores... and the landscape is definitely a cool photo.
I would have voted the same.
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Marilena Vaccarini

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;-))) !!!
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Garces & Garces

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@Aya That's one loophole that Pixoto needs to look into with regards to Challenges.
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Lenore

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Jason, a suggestion: Since this is a new quality check feature currently being tested, how about adding some sort of comment box so that, for example, Aya could have explained in a few words why she selected the boat over the fly. After she clicked the OK button, another popup could appear where a short reason could be given for the choice, or even choose one from a few multiple-choice options you could create.

Just a thought......
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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A good thought- thanks.
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Mark Zouroudis

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I haven't seen the pop up message. Since seeing it mentioned here I have noticed a couple obviously mismatched pics. I wonder if that was the "test".

Like Lenore, I will not always go for the most technically correct pic. There has to be a reasonable level of technique shown but it also has to grab my attention in some way.
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Lenore

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I've done a LOT of voting recently (been under the weather and it's enjoyable for me to sit with my iPad and one can only play so many games of Sudoku before going stir-crazy, and I'm finding the iPad very good for voting, with the exceptions of the problems I've already reported) and I have yet to see this popup. It must be very infrequent.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Lenore - while the false pairs come up pretty frequently choosing the lower scoring one is VERY infrequent.
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Lenore

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Thanks Jason, I guess I've yet to choose "wrong" :-)
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Jamie T Sturos

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I am getting the Whoa! as well...it seems werid considering I am voting on the picture that I like better! So i am concerned about this feature
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Susan Hogan

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Haven't gotten it yet, but it does seem almost as if Pixoto is telling people which image to vote for...
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Well - in a sense we are. A person who votes the opposite of the vast majority of our users certainly has a right to their opinion but is detrimental in terms the of finding the images that people like. The images we use for false pairings are of VERY different quality and IMHO only in rare cases is "correct" choice unclear.
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Susan Hogan

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Just wanted to clarify - I like the premise and think they are on the right track, but I can definitely see some issues with this system....
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Echo

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lol...you gotta laugh huh. Ive just got that message aswell.

Why....when Pixoto has introduced coding that flags irregular votes....havent they introduced coding that doesnt dual images that are so far apart in image scores.

I understand Algorythms are hard to design & keep fair....but stop sending a silly message if your going to continue to dual images that have scores at both ends of the spectrum.

Dictating a dual victor is utterly pointless.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Don - the false pairs are meant to be far apart. We wanted to see if we could find a group of images that were far apart enough that we could judge if photographers were paying attention when they voted. So far it is working very well. It has allowed us to identify a whole new group of users who are voting poorly.

Don't worry about getting one one of these messages. They only pop up when the image you voted on has a vastly lower image score. We do allow you to continue to vote and we do allow you to make the choice. That info is stored and we analyze the results. Most of our users only choose the lower scoring image 1 in 10 times. However we have found users with voting records for false pairs in the 50% range.

Having personally reviewed many hundreds of these false pairs (which are randomly generated by our algorithms) I can say that in general the images are of very different quality. There are a few here and there were, based on the subject, it is understandable that a member might choose the lower ranked image - but it is by far the exception.

I hope this helps.
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Jamie T Sturos

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Don, you are now an unfair voter...labeled and lumped in a group?!
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Echo

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Yeh Jason...thanks very much for the info. I spend a good bit of time looking before voting. I cant stand this 2 second click mentality....just so people can post their own images. It deems it pointless & inaccurate.

The two images in question....One was one of those sickly images of a kid.....there was so much dynamic skin softener used on the kid that it looked like a plastic doll. Eyes were far too bright & vivid to be anywhere near real.

The other image was a kid with chocolate all over his face....very candid & a well taken photo. Told far more of a story that the other....and was far more natural.

These two images shouldnt have been far apart in scores....but sadly...this totally ironed smooth skin with not a blemish in site & those alien eyes seem to be attractive. Personally i prefer natural.....but hey....i like Peanut Butter with Cream cheese & ham on toast. Most think thats weird.

Lifes subjective hey....anyway im gonna go get my Panda & get high.
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Mark Zouroudis

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Is this still going? I am a bit surprised I haven't been pulled up yet. I always thought my taste was a little bit different but it appears I am pretty average.
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Lenore

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Mark, it still hasn't happened to me yet either .... I'm starting to think I must be more mainstream than I thought too.
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Zmay

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i have this problem yesterday, today..several times..
Why are our voices irrelevant? why they should vote as well as most members? Why should not have its own that is slightly different opinion on the same photograph? why I can no longer liked it "worse" than "better" pictures? So I do not have enough challenge because someone wants, for example, click on my picture and can not vote for it. This is really a bit silly.
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Lenore

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Ivan, the way I understand it, these "vote checks" are not done using random images -- both images have been specially chosen by Pixoto management so that one is clearly a much better photograph than the other.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who cheat in the voting and just click, click, click, click -- fast, fast, fast, fast. It's a really big problem here. These type of people hurt all of us because our photos are losing duels simply because these folks don't pay attention when they vote. So, this voting check is something that Pixoto has devised to try to catch people like that.

I agree that all of us have different opinions on what makes a photograph great.and it is to be expected that some folks will disagree with the majority. It's when it happens to one specific voter a lot that will draw the attention of Pixoto.
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Lenore

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Well, it finally happened to me, just moments ago. What's funny is that the duel was in Buildings and Architecture and, to me, the one I picked was definitely the most interesting of the two shots ..... and the one I voted for is one I've voted for before.

That's a bit like a set-up and it bothers me a bit -- I'm showed an image that I have voted favourably for before, and now Pixoto expects me to vote against it? I'm all for a quality check but the system should recognize that if I liked the image before, I probably still like it.............
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Lenore

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Update: I am now banned from voting. It seems the images I voted for -- which all fall in line with images I prefer -- have got me banned. I was sure an idiot for supporting Pixoto in this.
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Aya de Ruiter

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huh? how can this be?
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Graham White

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They seem more interested in stupid gimmicks rather than sorting out the real issues.
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Nedeljko Energija

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Here's tonight's happened to me two times. Both the two times I skipped the vote. I'm intrigued. I do not vote if I nesviđaju none of the two images and skipping the vote if I can not decide which is better.
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Woodstock

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Same here - also I won't vote on portraits since beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I don't vote on children either - I think I should be allowed that choice.

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