Why the greater deduction of points on duels for high scoring images?

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  • Updated 6 years ago
Just for my own curiosity, what is the thinking and the logic behind losing 3 points on a lost duel and only gaining 2 points on a won duel, when you have a score in the 700's? Overnight, an image of mine went from 774 to 761, a drop of 13 points on a duel record of 7 wins/8 losses. I expect scores to go down for most members in the U.S. when the "night crew" is voting, but for a score to drop 13 points with only one duel loss does not seem very equitable. I would much rather see a +2/-2 for won/loss points on an image that has managed to reach a high scoring level.

I remember seeing an image last year that reached a score of around 810 and in the next few days dropped all the way down to 740 because of the uneven scoring system. I know images at high scoring levels are usually dueled against other high scoring images, but it seems to me that you open up the door for voters from other parts of the world to vote your image down, knowing that their vote will decrease your score more than another member's positive vote.

With this type of inequitable scoring system for images that have managed to reach a high scoring level, I think you do these togs a great disservice. It's akin to reaching for the brass ring, and actually managing to hold it in your hands, only to find out the ring is brass painted aluminum...and the paint is now all over your hands.

Would appreciate hearing your thoughts.
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John Larson

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Posted 6 years ago

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Garces & Garces

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I think it again boils down to the relative strength of the other image. E.g. If your image score is 700 and it duelled to a 690, gained score will be lesser. On the other hand if it duelled to a 710, it will gain higher points. Same on losing, it's only the reverse. In short a win/loss doesn't mean automatic 3 points +/- .
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Hendrik Schäfer

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I'm not totally sure about that, but if you have a very high score chances to duel against images with lower score are much higher. Thus having an equal outcome regarding wins/losses still gets you an negative over all score because the images you are compared to are lower rated then your own. And I think this makes sense...by doing so it is possible to keep the ratings in a specific range. The other possibility would be to give more positive points to the winning/lower rated images, but that means the overall range of possible scores i higher and its getting higher the more votes there are...
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John Larson

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I understand how it works, G&G. I just personally don't think it is an equitable voting situation. Two of my eight loses were to my own shot entered for today, an image that was a full 100 points lower than yesterday's entry. Though I am happy to get the points on the lower score, I hate to see yesterday's image, that is contending for top photo of the week in it's category, lose 6 points where it will take three won duels to put it back to even.

I appreciate your opinion Hendrik, but, personally, I don't think the present scoring system makes sense. Before the overnight voting began, my image had won the last 18/20 duels. That helped account for the 774 score. Then when the overseas voting begins I am punished for achieving a high score with a loss of 13 points for a one loss difference in 15 duels.
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Hendrik Schäfer

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But isn't this an issue every foto faces when it gets to the top of its category? I mean as long as all images which get into this position are treated the same way there is no 'punishment'. Of cause as the maintainer of the image it feels like being downrated but as long the competitive images are also losing points due to the same fact the relative rating of your images keeps the same.
There still would be the question if the later submitted images somehow get benefits from this because of the shorter time they have to compete with lower rated images as they do when they reach top scores...
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi John, actually it is not always win = +2 score, lose = -3 score, as Garces say it all depend on other image it dueled. The higher the difference in strength of images the higher the score gain/lose. Sometimes score can can up or down for a fraction of Imagescore.

I hope this helps.
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Garces & Garces

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John, even if your score had reached 774 it doesn't automatically mean that the relative strength of your image is on that range or higher. If your image started to lose, that means your image started to "settle down" where it should belong. It happens to me many times. I have images that reached 700+ in a matter of hours and "settle' to about 650 score the next day. While other images would take about a week or months to reach 700.

This losing of more points when an image had already scored higher points does actually make sense because if algorithm gives equal +/- points between higher and lower image, then the later will be on the disadvantage and will hardly "catch up". This will also result in slow pace of gaining higher score for new images.

With regard to voting biases, it is a given fact that everybody has it's own biases, whether consciously or unconsciously. The higher the score the higher the chances that some togs will vote your image down especially if most of your images can be easily identified to you (more so if the images have the slightest difference from each other). At a glance, I can easily identify a Harvey, a Husada, an Elvira, a Purwanto, or a Graphuchin images. Even so, I tried to vote as fairest as I can, but I know subconsciously, I also got biases especially if the images are being seen everyday with the slightest of difference.

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