Why do some people get as many image duels in an hour and a half as I get in 6 hours?

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We're in the same category - I'm doing well - over 500 - paused - people uploading in the final few hours - more duels - past me like a shot.
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Jane A. Spencer

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Posted 5 years ago

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Shooting America

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Your photo won't get fast duels if the Pixoto algorithm think that it won't reach a winning score.
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Jane A. Spencer

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That's what I was looking for. People don't believe me when I tell them that. Since people aren't formulas - their tastes are not formulas. I've sold hundreds of images and couldn't believe about half of the ones I sold. You can't make a formula of what will appeal to a given individual. Flowers, by the way, are mostly popular in calendars. Although they are my favorites - they are not big sellers.
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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Shooting America and Jane Spencer, as to Shooting America's last response, to me, therein the problem lies--the computer slows/pauses what it thinks won't score high, instead of just allowing voters to decide and allowing all photos to proceed at the same pace for voting. So, really, in the end, is it only the voters who are really deciding or is it mostly the computer, using some of the same analytics used in some stock photo sites? I think I know...
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Lenore

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Jane, if your photo loses its first few duels, it's doomed. The Pixoto algorithm flags it as a losing image. No point letting it sit -- it won't climb high enough to fare well. Best to delete it and submit it another day, or click the resubmit button and see if it does better.
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Jane A. Spencer

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Bridgette: The computer may be correct as to which image has the probability of a higher score. However, the customer who will choose to buy an image has very individual preferences based on likes and dislikes, perhaps good memories, or any number of criteria. I would ask Pixoto if there is a statistical co-relation between top scoring images and sales. If there is - then they have a winning formula. If there isn't - they're missing the boat - and the formula - fancy though it may be will end up losing them business.
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Jane A. Spencer

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Lenore: I had already figured out that an image needs a win first - didn't realize that it needed more than one immediate win to have a chance. I have resubmitted until I get that first win - will have to pay even more attention. Today (yesterday), I submitted an image that made it to 650 and - although it was at #9 two minutes before the "day ended," it still finished at 11th place. So, it had 22 image duels left which I deleted because I've seen these things start backwards - virtually every time. Just checked it and Pixoto is running it - because they have the right to duel with it to their hearts content regardless of what happens score-wise to the image. My problem is that I take this all too seriously - probably because I work very hard to submit good images. I did all right today - but tomorrow? Who knows? Maybe I just need to lighten up! Thank you for good information that I didn't have.
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Lenore

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The most important thing about Pixoto? Don't take it seriously! Honestly, there's too much stress and too much drama if you don't take this all with a grain of salt and a smile. The wins....the losses.....even this forum. Just let it all amuse you.
:-)

There are just too many variables to make it something to fret about. This isn't a place for those who don't have a lot of self-confidence!

I've sold my art for years, been shown in galleries, etc etc etc. I agree with you -- what does well here and what people like are definitely not the same thing. I have certain photographs that sell very well -- they have tanked here, each time I've posted them. I don't even try anymore.
:-)
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Jane A. Spencer

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Lenore: You are so right. I have always shown my work, sold my work at art shows and in stores. One image I sold for $500 and it can't get out of the 400's on here. None of my good images do well here. Actually, the ones that have done well no one would ever buy to hang on their wall.

Problem for me was that my old online site went belly up - gave into soft porn and lost all their serious clients. I came on here in October - hoping to get back to the business that I enjoyed on my old site. Right!

I never involved myself with a site for fun! I'm old, still employed, (could have retired 13 years ago) and it takes a lot of work to increase your portfolio - killing 3 to 4 hours a day. I'm going to have to look around for a serious site.

I'm not in this for the money - but I love the idea of someone being so drawn to an image of mine that they want to take it home and hang it on their wall. To me, that is the final vindication for what I do - and love to do.

Have made some excellent friends here. Like a lot about the site - but the focus drives me nuts. I really appreciate your input. Maybe I'll spread myself thinner and stay here for fun and somewhere else for real rewards.

Thanks, Lenore.
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Lenore

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You're welcome. I have had online success at Redbubble, you may want to give them a try. After all, no harm in trying :-)
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redwar

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Jane,

First, I love your spunk, your level headed understanding and business sense.

As you already know, your images aren't dueling with "real images", they are dueling against images with an existing track record of winning. They are dueling against a computer that wins...

Furthermore, the images are stock and are not marketable -- I call it beautifully pointless.

Your images, on the other hand are dynamically driven by how you are stimulated to take them. Individuality is not conformity to some kind of computerized social game that isn't in present time, isn't taking chances and for certain, doesn't make money selling images.

But you do and can and will make money with your camera.

I know I have over the years and I darn well don't need a website to tell me what will or will not sell or try showing me just how much better a handful of elite photographers with tons of money to throw around are somehow better photographers than myself or you.

Pictures are supposed to be seen and paid for by real people who appreciate real photographers and not by a computer program.
.

.
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Jane A. Spencer

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Lenore: There were people at my old site that were happy with Redbubble. I'll give it a look. Thanks again for your very good advice. Really appreciate it.
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Lenore

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You're welcome :-)
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Jane A. Spencer

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redwar: Wow! Very passionate reply .. . refreshing!

Since I understand the winning formula - last night I uploaded 3 images. They did not start out with a lot of wins - so I resubmitted them. Didn't work - so I deleted them. Why should I keep checking on images hopefully waiting for them to take off when they stand still around 30 to 50 image duels . . . for hours?

Trouble is that my image is my canvas. Once the camera is done, I spend hours doing more and making the image mine. It's foolish to pour hours into an image and really believe that it's special - only to watch it stall. It's disheartening.

I have to be honest. I've done OK here as far as awards are concerned. I've made 50 cents. Still, I have one kind of miraculous miracle image a week - always a complete and total surprise! Like: "You've got to be kidding me! No one in their right mind would ever buy that!" But . . . I'll take it. On the other hand, there are about 30 disappointments a week. Leaves you feeling bad about yourself. Who needs that much negative personal press?

I'm going to do without the 30 disappointments a week. I can delete in a few minutes and walk away like nothing ever happened. No dragging it out over a day - checking it at work - (I own my own business and can do that)) and feeling lousy every time I click on my site. Turning over a new leaf . . . will be feeling a lot better! Thanks for the input!
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Jane, please check About us page: http://www.pixoto.com/about

Specifically this part:

"The more early wins an image has the higher its ImageScore will go and the more duels it will ultimately receive. The highest rated unpaused images on the site will end up with four times (or more) duels than the lowest. After the first 50 duels or so the change in ImageScore with each additional duel slows down. Essentially the first 50 or so duels define the approximate area of the leaderboard an image should be and the remaining duels refine that placement. We are primarily focused on refining the scores of the top image – which is the reason for the disproportionate number of duels to those types of images."

I hope this helps.
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Jane A. Spencer

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I understand completely. Thank you for your time and trouble.
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Pete Bobb

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I think photos need several things to sell.
1) Well focused on the subject
2) Well composed
3) Unusual subject
4) Immediate impact
On pixoto, and I may be wrong, my feeling is that photos are rated in less than 2 seconds, and all that is rated is the immediate impact.
Ornithologists say that herons are a wading bird which can not swim, but posting well focused photos of swimming herons can't earn 500 points on pixoto.
I have a photo (still on pixoto) of a Yellow Jacket sitting on her wings which she tucked under her butt, and that unusual behavior can't earn 500 points,
So, having the first three components of a great photo means little without the fourth component in my experience with pixoto.
However, I am rethinking my photo submissions to editors with an eye towards that fourth component in the hopes of catching the photo editor's attention long enough for the first three components listed to be evaluated!
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Lenore

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Composition does it for me -- a well-composed photo that also captures my interest is the photo that gets my vote. Technical skills can be improved but good composition is gold :-)

Having said that, Pixoto is still the home of the quick vote. You are dead-on correct about your #4 listing. Immediate impact accounts for most of the clicks. I don't think people even look at the category in which they're voting -- they just quickly click the picture they like the best.
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Jane A. Spencer

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Pete: I have fallen into the trap of believing that an image is so unusual and special that it's sure to rise to the top - only to discover that it can't get off the ground - and an image that has none of those things - go up like a shot. (Not often) Still, it happens.

I do believe that how long you've been a member on the site factors into the equation. While I spend time cleaning up small imperfections in my images, I see flowers sail by me whose best day was 3 or 4 days ago - brown edges, rotten spots, etc. Such things have a way of making my hair stand up on the back of my neck. LOL! Thanks for the comment.

You are also correct, Lenore in your support of Pete's "immediate impact" factor!

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