Very unclear category change decisions

  • 1
  • Question
  • Updated 7 years ago
I replied a few times tot Pixoto category changes but never got a response.
It was always in cases that the formal descriptions on the site were not explicit enhough to clarify the category change.
Again a picture has got a category change
http://www.pixoto.com/images/50039738...
Now from landscape to animals wich is weird
2 questions:
1) for this specific picture please explain where where the category descriptions make clear my pictiure was in the wrong category
Main subject of the picture is sunset-landscape; the birds add value but are not main subject (you cannot see any details!)
2) when changing categories of pictures, please add a little bit of explanations besides pointing to category descriptions.
Photo of Ad Spruijt

Ad Spruijt

  • 437 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
  • confused

Posted 7 years ago

  • 1
Photo of Lenore

Lenore

  • 2835 Posts
  • 937 Reply Likes
In my opinion, the clear, dominate subject of this photo is the birds.
Photo of Ad Spruijt

Ad Spruijt

  • 437 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
which means we do not have the same opionion ...
Photo of Mark Zouroudis

Mark Zouroudis

  • 908 Posts
  • 348 Reply Likes
I also agree that it's the birds that make the pic so it's birds for me also. The eyes are drawn to the birds, they are the subject of the pic.
Photo of After Oz

After Oz

  • 385 Posts
  • 44 Reply Likes
I'm sorry, I agree as well that the birds are the subject - had they been more distant perhaps not.
Photo of Ad Spruijt

Ad Spruijt

  • 437 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
Lenore, Mark, After with all respect to your opinions, it are just opinions.
In landscape pictures there are often objects in the foreground to add value to the landscape aspect.
My point is that category descriptions are not clear enough, so lead to very subjective reasons when chosing a category or recategorisations. Even based on your arguments e.g. the leading pictures in landscapes of this week can be recategorized to transport (because there 's a boat in the foreground that dominates the picture).
My point is that currently often subjective opinions lead to recategorizations without proper explanations (or clear category definitions).
I think this is beyond the goal categorizations are meant for and (looking at other comments regarding recategorizations) leads to discussions over and over again.

But as allways, the webmaster decides...
And if they don't want to act on it, it's their right I assume.

Overall, although I like to see improvements in this area, I don't mind the weird decisions from time to time. So stay with Pixoto simply because I like to look at pictures, learn from them and post my own for fun and to learn via the aspect of valuation of my own pictures by others.
Photo of Jasenka

Jasenka, Official Rep

  • 18284 Posts
  • 1325 Reply Likes
Hello Ad, in this case birds dominate over landscape so correct category would be Animal category, as report team has recategorized.
Photo of Ad Spruijt

Ad Spruijt

  • 437 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
Thanks for your response Jasenka, although I disagree.
You seemed to have missed the remark above, then you know why.
Also my questions are are only partly answered....
Photo of Garces & Garces

Garces & Garces

  • 574 Posts
  • 97 Reply Likes
LOL..absurd decision...it's clearly a landscape with birds, and not the birds are the subject, it's the sunset! Wake up!
Photo of Ad Spruijt

Ad Spruijt

  • 437 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
I reported a few similar ones... wondering if pixoto will be consequent :-)
Photo of Garces & Garces

Garces & Garces

  • 574 Posts
  • 97 Reply Likes
apparently their decisions are not based on how they define it, but rather on how they understood their definitions...LOL
Photo of Martin Dunaway

Martin Dunaway

  • 587 Posts
  • 64 Reply Likes
ATTENTION! All rules subject to change without notice!! Please read the fine print!
also I totally agree its a landscape!
Photo of Dipali

Dipali

  • 1846 Posts
  • 94 Reply Likes
I think it's a Landscape. If we go by how much percent is occupied by birds and how much is occupied by Landscape, then Landscape is more than birds. It should be placed in Landscape /Sunsets and Sunrises. So many Landscapes have birds in them, yes the birds are a little larger in this image, but they are silhouettes and a lot of drama is in the background which makes it a Landscape.
Photo of Ralph Harvey

Ralph Harvey

  • 896 Posts
  • 215 Reply Likes
in an image like this which it is clearly possible to enter either way, it should be left to the photographer to decide where they want to enter it !

there is a clear reason to enter in both categories but only Ad knows what he was thinking or seeing when he took the image !!
Photo of Dipali

Dipali

  • 1846 Posts
  • 94 Reply Likes
Agree!
Photo of Garces & Garces

Garces & Garces

  • 574 Posts
  • 97 Reply Likes
that's right...there should be status qou on images that borders from one category to another.
Photo of Ad Spruijt

Ad Spruijt

  • 437 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
and this one (not mine) is allowed in landscapes ???
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
Photo of Lenore

Lenore

  • 2835 Posts
  • 937 Reply Likes
That shouldn't be in Landscapes either. Be very, very cautious about pointing to other images to back up your claims, as they don't offer any proof; images are only moved if they're reported. That image may not have been reported, or the Pixoto team could be behind in recategorizing images as they're often quite slow about reacting to reports.

For example, this image is in People: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra... Does that mean that children are supposed to be put into the People category? No. It just means it either hasn't been reported or hasn't been moved yet. Same goes for http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra... or http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra... or http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra... ... they're in People but they shouldn't be. Just like Landscapes has lots of photos in it that shouldn't be there too :-)
Photo of Ad Spruijt

Ad Spruijt

  • 437 Posts
  • 67 Reply Likes
You're right lenore, pointing to other pictures shouldn't be done.
Normally I wouldn't point to other pictures and It's also not about that specific picture and I do not want to back up the claim about my own picture.
I just want to make clear, with only 1 example (and I've really seen much more), the arbitrariness in the recategorisation process combined with the fact that category descriptions leave a lot of room for interpretation (also the different reactions on my picture prove the same).
And more specific for landscapes: what's the definition?
May boats, animals, buildings, vehicles, people, trees appear more or less in prominently in a landscape? Isn't that just a photographers decision/choice/interpretation?
Photo of Garces & Garces

Garces & Garces

  • 574 Posts
  • 97 Reply Likes
Lenore, a silhouette of birds as small as that one in the image of Ad is clearly just part of the landscape. C'mon, don't tell me if I take picture of a landscape with silhouette of a tree, it'll be categorized to nature - trees & bushes?

My only problem here is, this decision by Pixoto will take a precedence to future decisions which will make this site a laughing stock not a photo stock. :)

I'm sure Jason is reading this in amusement 'coz he also believe this is a landscape! Any word Jason? :)
Photo of Lenore

Lenore

  • 2835 Posts
  • 937 Reply Likes
Garces, we're just going to have to agree to disagree :-) A photo that has ten birds occupying the center of the photo and spreading across about 2/3rd's of it, has, to me, the birds as the primary subject, no matter what colour the sky is. Too many birds occupying too much space in the photo. My opinion, anyway :-)

Oh, and while I think you were making a joke about the tree :-), it's (unfortunately) no joke ... a photograph that looks like a landscape to most of us but has a tree as the predominant feature in it will indeed go into Nature Up Close. That's been brought up here, I think a few weeks ago, and that's the stance Pixoto has taken. If I remember correctly, I had brought up a problem I found about photos I thought were landscapes appearing in Cities-Parks, and, after checking, Jasenka advised that some photos would be moved to Landscapes, but some would be moved to Nature Up Close. It's something I don't agree with -- to me, an "up close" photograph of a tree that includes all or most of it, becomes a landscape because a tree is just too big.

Edited to add: Garces, I hunted down the thread I referenced; here it is:
http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
Have a look :-)
Photo of Cornelis Cornelissen

Cornelis Cornelissen

  • 86 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
This is clearly a landscape, the sunset dominates, or does anybody see more bird than the orange of the sunset. The decision of Pixoto is weird.
Photo of Charlie

Charlie

  • 636 Posts
  • 52 Reply Likes
This image for me is up to the tog. either animals or landscape it's okay.why? every thing is in focus.
Photo of Mark Zouroudis

Mark Zouroudis

  • 908 Posts
  • 348 Reply Likes
I think it's unwise to use the 20% of the pic as a gauge of what the pic is. Sometimes the subject of the pic can be a lot less than that and still be the dominant subject of the pic.

Here are a few examples, if we where to use the logic used here that these pics would be reclassified.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
Photo of Dipali

Dipali

  • 1846 Posts
  • 94 Reply Likes
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

The second one is not even a street scene.
Photo of Mark Zouroudis

Mark Zouroudis

  • 908 Posts
  • 348 Reply Likes
No Dipali, it isn't but it is in the right category, People and as we know pics are not re categorized within Categories. I would say though that People is the right category for it. The person takes up less that 20% of the pic and the background is fully out there. I think though there is a heir achy of things that we place things in as viewers and the person is the main focal point.

This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies.