Trying to understand the "No very similar images" rule

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Dear Jasenka, Jason and the Report team of Pixoto,

I have discovered Pixoto in spring 2015, and found it interesting and fun at first. Unfortunately, as time went by I became more and more frustrated. The thing that made Pixoto frustrating, and the reason I used that exact word, was that it has the potential to be great, but it isn't yet. It has its issues.

To start the new year on a positive note, I decided to try and help Pixoto and its community to understand each other by addressing the issue that seems to have been troublesome to many of the users here. That issue seems to the "repetitiveness rule". The rule is detailed here (correct me if I am wrong):
http://blog.pixoto.com/no-very-simila...

The first two sentences say:
"NO VERY SIMILAR IMAGES: You may submit an unlimited number of images but each one must be significantly different from the others. This means only one image of any subject and scene/pose combination is allowed."

Now, in accordance with the linked rule, and other Pixoto rules, please have a look at the 9 cases presented in this file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d2sum8b4xaj...
and kindly declare here, publicly, which of the presented cases does NOT represent repetitive and very similar images, and if possible, provide a short explanation of your decision.

I am sure that if you do this your users, including me, will finally understand the rules, your decisions when you don't react on the reported images, and many other issues. It will also, hopefully, stop the constant arguing about repetitive images as well.

Hope this will help make Pixoto a great community it is destined to be.
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Kreso D

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Posted 5 years ago

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Mara R. Sirako

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obviously it is an eternal problem. Example: dogs : http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

I have a feeling that I'm watching 5 dogs over and over again (1 + 3, 21 + 23, 11 + 15 etc)
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Bill Underwood

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Take a look at Antonello Madau and his circular staircases (among others).
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DVA

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Yep, he's got like 6-7 of them. Two of them this week. Let's see if Pixoto will do anything. It has been reported.
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Joanne

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... More times reported, boys :)
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Kreso D

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Ditto! :) Reported! (They still haven't disabled my account so I am still here :)
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DVA

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Common Pixoto!

This
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
is identical to this
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
just colorized differently and zoomed in a bit.

It has been reported multiple times! Yet he keeps playing in the weekly challenge and took #2 for the day from other deserving photos!
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello DVA, please allow report team 24-48 hours for handling reports. Also please follow Policy about reports and community - http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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Joyce Andersen

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yes, please allow 24-48 hours so these can totally screw up the duels and they can collect their ill gotten wins.
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Joanne

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Team did Its job, but Antonello too. Snap is back :D.
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DVA

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Now I think THAT is something that needs to be punished. If someone keeps ignoring the fact that even Pixoto deems the image similar and resubmits it over and over again, there should be some additional punishment besides just deleting the photo again.
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somethingsbest

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I just want to get an honest to goodness reply from John here. Are the two images on the link below a duplicate as Pixoto ruled? Is the other image (head twisted) manipulated and was "inadvertently submitted"? As far as I know if you manipulate an image like this, your intention is to make it appear it's a different shot. It's cheating on different level right?

http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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John Larson

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The shot that was deleted was taken over a year and a half ago, and since I haven't been able to get out and shoot I went through my folders and found this image. The file name on the shot was one number after the image I had posted in July of 2014. It was part of a rapid fire group of shots of this snowy owl and since the head was in a slightly different position I entered it and it did very well in voting. If I was trying to "cheat" by manipulating the image, as you are inferring, I would have been smart enough to manipulate other portions of the owl, which anyone with a modicum of editing skills could have easily done.

That is the most "honest to goodness reply" I can give you.
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somethingsbest

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Rapid fire shot will not produce these kind of images especially, as you've said, the other image is one number after the other. The head of the other is not slightly different but it in the opposite direction. My only humble conclusion is you have cropped the head and twisted it. All in the photos are the same except the head, even the feather strands are the same including in the head.

Anyways, it's over now as Pixoto had ruled already that it is similar/duplicate. Thank you for you explanation--- or for trying to explain? :)
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Bill Underwood

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It seems to me this is becoming mean spirited. John takes phenomenal shots and has been at it for a long time. He too has been a critic of the "similar image" photographers. Nothing can be gained from concluding anything was done beyond what John says happened. If he says it was taken rapid fire that is good enough for me. I suggest we focus our sits on getting something set up through Pixoto that can bring pressure to bear on the chronic repeaters.
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Renos Hadjikyriacou

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Best way is to quit the weekly cash prizes so nobody has reason for doing it!!
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K C

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I agree with Renos...No cash prizes
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somethingsbest

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@Bill, yes John is a critic of "similar image" . Maybe --- and maybe --- he just "inadvertently submitted" countless similar/duplicates just like this new "failed" edit again.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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John Larson

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Thanks for your kind support and comment, Bill!

And rightly so, Somethingsbest, the image of the polar bear was a duplicate, which surprises me because it was the only picture in the folder, and if it had been a dup Pixoto would have alerted me when I posted it. It was in no way a "failed edit." Anyway, Pixoto was fully justified in that deletion and my sincere apologies.

I must say here that I find it strange that Somethingsbest does not reveal his or her real name for everyone to see, as most members on this site do, and as far as I can see has never posted a single image. Your comments on here have all applied only to me and I'm starting to feel like you are some kind of stalker who has an axe to grind against me, for whatever reason. Haters will be haters. If that is your mission then mission accomplished. When I have entered dups they have never been on purpose. I have won the weekly prize 14 times and it has not changed my life style or financial status one iota. I was one of the first to suggest we get rid of the cash prize, because that is the number one reason people cheat...to win their $20 or $50 dollars occasionally, which to some, apparently is a big deal. I have consistently been ranked in the top ten at the end of the year in the four plus years I have been on this site, and in the top three the last three years, and gotten there on whatever talent I have, without cheating or trying to deceive anyone. And I will be in the top ten again for 2015. So bottom line, there is NO impetus for me to try to enter dups or very similar images on purpose. I don't need the money, I don't need the accolades or awards.

I would love to see your work Somethingsbest, and would be more than happy to look over your thousands of images, since you have been a member since February of 2014, and give you my "honest to goodness" critique of your work, and point out any unintentional mistakes in posting that you may have made.
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Bill Underwood

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Gentlemen, we need to stop going after each other. It is completely nonproductive. The Pixoto Staff doesn't have time to address our concerns because they are spending all their time laughing their butts off at how we are behaving. Somethingsbest, please give John the benefit of the doubt and let's move on! John has over 2,100 photos submitted and It would be extremely easy for him to forget which photos he posted more than a year ago. I do think it to be a little unfair that you (Somethingsbest) don't disclose your name on Pixoto so that we are all on the same playing field..... I for one would like to see your work. We need to be united in our endeavors to provide suggestions to Pixoto in order to improve the experience. John has admitted to having made a mistake and we need to accept it as that (which I did some time ago) and get back to doing something about "similar images". Please.
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Kreso D

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Notice the complete lack of interest by Pixoto to comment on any idea/solution proposed here... Sad, really sad. Well, Pixoto, if the idea is to ignore it until it disappears - good work. I for one am disappearing. Thank you John, Bill, Stephen, DVA, Steven and others for your support. See you around somewhere.
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Rae Sissons

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I just posted a very similar question before reading this, I spent a hour voting and was very annoyed at how many images in the duels were the same and taken by the same photographer which means these photographers can't lose, I now just press the skip button and don't vote on these duels
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Stephen Crawford

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I do the same when ever see I see certain images, knowing fine well who they're from. I have to confess I've bombarded a handful of competitions in the past but all of my entries were significantly different. I like to show how versatile I strive to be and can't stand the thought of people thinking I'm a one trick pony. This doesn't seem to bother others though. I wish other voters would follow your example and boycott the "cheaters".
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Patrice Laborda

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And the winner is :

1st of the year:


1st of the week:
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Bill Underwood

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The first one is certainly "similar". The second one is not as one a color and one is a black white
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Patrice Laborda

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Bill Underwood

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Very funny.
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Steve Brooks

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When I do post, I post a different pic each time, so stay thirsty my friends!
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somethingsbest

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Bill Underwood

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Ok, it is pretty clear these are "similar". Did you report them when you first noticed them? If you didn't, shame on you.
Somethings-best, as it took me a great deal of time searching for them on John's site to find them, I can only imagine how much time it must have taken you.

I am still concerned why you won't reveal your true identity to those of us who are striving to fix this problem. The only possible reason I can think of is that you some personal problem with John and you are now trying to get even. There may be another reason but I will no longer respond to someone who lashes out from the shadows - and hope John doesn't either.

I would like for these posts to have a goal of finding a solution to the problem and that doesn't appear to be what your seeking. Have a nice day.
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Renos Hadjikyriacou

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http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

I am repeating my self:

NO CASH PRIZES, quit the weekly cash prizes so nobody has reason for doing this!!
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Bill Underwood

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It is problematic that the Pixoto staff is remaking strangely silent as we twist in the wind. Here are my suggestions:

1. I'll put in Renos suggestion because I don't know much about this issue. I would think that being a top photographer is more important than the dollars. I don't know so I put it in.

2. When someone posts a similar image, take both or there are more than two, all of the similar images. Not just the last one as is the case. If the deletion affects standing as a photographer because of the loss of points then so be it. If time permits go through all of the offenders pictures and delete them as well.

3. This should be transparent and Pixoto should disclose their findings immediately to the entire Pixoto community.

4. Finally, and while I'm pontificating, they should add at least four more categories.
I. Landscape where the reflection in the water is an integral part of the picture
2. birds - Eagles
3. Birds not Eagles
4. Animals Big Cats only.
5. And probably a few more.
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Steve Brooks

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Bill, I agree for the most part with your ideas. I think stricter guidelines for landscaping need to be put in place. On any other site, landscape shots cannot have any structures, or people in them. They become travel, and culture, or even buildings and structures depending which dominates the photo.

I also think any real photographer would not submit an identical black and white of a color shot, unless just showing the contrast of the two shots. Pixoto makes too many photographers greedy, by letting any and all shots in to a heading. Submit one for a contest, or money, then for fun submit the additional shot that is a black and white of a cropped version etc.
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Bill Underwood

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Agreed. If you look at the top landscapes on Pixoto more than 75% of them are sunsets sunrise with a water element reflecting something. Beautiful but mountains and forests might as well not even enter. Take care.
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Rae Sissons

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Funny thing, I don't care about the cash prizes, I just want to learn, I just don't understand anyone that would go through such lengths to cheat? I guess I'll just keep hitting the skip button, maybe we should all hit the skip button on these duels!
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Steve Brooks

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Rae, I applaud your desire to learn, and Pixoto does show a lot of high quality work. But by and large you wont learn much as far as techniques, settings, flash use, post processing. There are better sites for this. If you use Nikon try going to Nikonians for instruction and learning, also Naturescapes is an excellent site with every top nature and landscape photographer on the planet there. Hope this helps.
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somethingsbest

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And it's funny how some photogs are trying to complain in this forum but only on selective few. If they've known the photog they called it "unintentional mistake" but if not, a "cheat".

I have an unsolicited advice to those with thousands of images in their profile to avoid duplicate/similar. Stop scavenging pix in your old files, shred it. Do yourself a favor, go out and shoot. The fun of photography is not spending lots of time in front of your computer, it's the thrill and excitement outdoor trying to capture the best moments possible.
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Ken Goh

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Like this:
"Do yourself a favor, go out and shoot. The fun of photography is not spending lots of time in front of your computer, it's the thrill and excitement outdoor trying to capture the best moments possible. "

This is very true.

I shoot a lot but only submit cityscape and not birds. Don't like the idea of wild birds mix with caged animals/birds, insects etc and has gave up even for image like this lost very badly to some poor quality shots and easy to shoot birds/animals:
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

Just this month alone I have several hundreds from 70+ different species and I'm uploading one or two everyday to flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kengoh8...
I'm not going to submit to pixoto and get voted down badly.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi all, please follow Policy about reporting and community - http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to... and report images using report button.
Please use community for clarifications only, and only 5 days after you reported image(s).
Thank you.
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Bill Underwood

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Jasenca, To clarify, is what we are doing against the rules? Bill
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Steve Brooks

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Jasenka, our comments are due to frustration from Pixoto not either enforcing it's own rules, or from clearing up what the standards are for submitted photos. Does Pixoto think we have nothing better to do.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Bill, per Policy about reporting and community (linked above) all reports should be made through report button. User can ask about clarification but only 5 days after report was made. So posting here links to images that have been submitted yesterday (or day before) is not according to Policy.

I hope this helps.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Steve, we rely on users to report images. Kreso asked for clarification and it was provided (please check previous posts).

I hope this helps.
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Niclas Poul Krog

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Just vote agaist those sam same same pics .
After a while you will be punished by not being able to vote for that day .
And that is interesting
If one dont vote for simulari pics one will loose the right to vote
Kinda shitfunny right :)
Now that is really really a good way ti kill creativeness .
Let me see
In landscape a boat in the water aginst a sunrise winns 2-5 times this week
Right :)
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Russell Benington

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I think its just easier for moderators of the comp just to DQ the similar images. Personally I put up "No similar images" and only allow three similar images. I consider all of the cases similar. Just because something moves an inch does not change what it is in my opinion. Eventually people will learn not to put lots of similar shots in competitions if everyone just moderates their own comp under what they consider to be fair
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Joyce Andersen

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most of the complaints are not about moderated contests...they are about the duels that pay money and points and awards. no one gets anything for the moderated contests except bragging rights.

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