This website needs a BIG rethink, voting is faulty, rules are broken often... it's a shame

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  • Updated 7 years ago
Hello, I am a very fresh member, but that doesn't mean that I have no experience. After searching the forum for a while, I noticed A LOT of dissatisfaction, frustrations, things that are NOT ok with Pixoto.
Mr. Jason Kiefer, are you gonna DO something about this issues? Or you like to see the quality of this website going down fast? Pixoto would have a lot to offer, but not in current state. What I'm talking about?
First of all, a lot of rule breaks: most of them similar images and duplicates. Then, the voting system sucks. There can't be a quality filtering if I only can skip 3 options in voting. I encounter A LOT of poor artworks that I wouldn't vote at all, but I am compelled by the 3-skip limitation to choose one, so I can go further.
Also, I noticed a lot of images with very good ranking but poor artistic quality... what the hell is going on here? Something is very wrong. How one can get inspired, learn, if the values promoted on this website are questionable?
Do you promote the "average values" ? You are giving "everyone a chance".. how one would improve and learn in this condition ?
Despite the fact I am new here, I'm afraid I will move on if this continues... and I would advice everyone who thinks quality should prevail to do the same.

So, bottom line, my idea is: DO SOMETHING TO EARN OUR RESPECT ! The worst thing is that your own rules are not respected... there is rule breaking at every step and nobody bats an eye about.

Thanks for reading.
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derei

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Posted 7 years ago

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Matt Sera

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Hey there,
I'm new too, and I think the voting system is rather fair. Sure there is some blatantly biased or dishonest votes, but the better images seem to always make it through somehow.

My main and highly annoying problem is, why with potentially thousands of images to compete against, the same ones keep duellin against you over and over nd over again!

Cheers
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derei

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Take a look at this and tell me what you think about: http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to... ... Btw, what is fair to voting system? The fact that one can vote randomly, just to earn credits? Or the fact that pausing is decided often too soon? Or maybe is fair that every vote weights the same? Either you know something or you are just a monkey with a mouse?
...I am really interested which of this aspects is fair in your eyes...
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Matt Sera

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Great, I could've expressed my opinion in a constructive way, but you got me at Monkey with a mouse... Take care.
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derei

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It wasn't meant to be ofensive, Matt Sera, just to point that some people just vote to add credits, but they cannot make a difference between a newspaper and a Monet painting :)))
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Matt - in many cases there are not thousands of images. In 2/3rds of duels images can only play other images that 1) are in the same subcategory 2) are not paused and 3) have a relatively low number of duels 4) the best guess future imagescore is about the same (i.e. the same anticipated quality) This greatly restricts the images that are available to play in small subcateogries. That said all of these restrictions are at the core of why Pixoto works at all so we believe they are necessary.
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Susan Hogan

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How is the "anticipated quality" determined, exactly?
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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We calculate ImageScore (which you see in realtime) and projected ImageScore which is our best guess of where an image will end up. Every image starts with a projected of 500 and goes up or down depending on duels. We use projected imagescore for pairing - not imagescore.
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Amy Kiley

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this website is a joke....while it's fun to see your photos rise to the top - it means nothing in the end. The voting is completely and utterly invalid. The award system misleading and the money they ask for with PRO membership and credits completely self serving. I don't take Pixoto seriously and really, in all honesty, most serious photographers don't either.
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derei

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Unfortunately I must agree, but it COULD be a serious thing and serve as a helpful tool... if only they would be seriously involved to do that... I was curious to join,because a friend joined...
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Amy Kiley

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:)
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Amy,

I'm sorry you feel this way. I must completely disagree that the voting system is invalid. That said images that rise to the top are the best based on initial impression - not deep analysis. So you get images that are striking and generate immediate passion in the voter. Not ones that require contemplative review.

As to charging for PRO and credits - we are a business and have to support the service somehow. Overtime as our market grows we'll be able to rely completely on that - until then we need to generate revenue in other ways. Both of these methods allow people who pay to vote less. It doen't give them higher scores or better ratings so we feel this is completely fair.

I hope this helps.
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Amy Kiley

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but in all honesty why complain - just pull off like most people after about six months....who has time to compete in a competition that amounts to nothing in the end......it is what is ........
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Ralph Harvey

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The lack of official interaction on this and so many other threads like it says a lot about it at the moment !

Where is everyone when there is a problem, or is it a case of sod you we will do it our way and we dont care ! as it would appear to have been so much lately.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello all, thank you for your suggestions, I will forward them to the management.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Derei,

I appreciate your concern here are some responses:

"First of all, a lot of rule breaks: most of them similar images and duplicates. " - We have just hired two more content moderators to review images and should respond to reports faster. That said we do leave it to the community to report images that do not fit. Also - I will say that more than 70% of reports are invalid. For example we get many hundreds of reports for similar images per week that were we do not agree that the images are too similar. We are pretty liberal with our definition and do allow lots of similar images. It's the "very" that is important.

"There can't be a quality filtering if I only can skip 3 options in voting" - I guess I don't agree that this is a problem. I believe that if you spent time on the images you could decide which one you like better in all but the most extreme cases. I've done thousands and thousands of duels and I NEVER skip. But skipping was being used by cheaters in the past so we had to limit it.

"Also, I noticed a lot of images with very good ranking but poor artistic quality... what the hell is going on here?" - this is your opinion but the opinion of the majority of Pixoto members disagree. The leaderboard reflects their collective opinion. maybe they are not artistic but they do appeal to voters. When I look at the leaderboard I don't agree with it. There are images at the top that I don't think are the best. BUT that said I can look at those images and see why a voter would have chosen them.

"How one can get inspired, learn, if the values promoted on this website are questionable? " I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. How are our values questionable? We're always trying to improve and welcome feedback.

I hope this helps.
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derei

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I was referring to artistic value. In the end, why to come to a website like this one, if not for aesthetic or artistic reasons? Either if you want to buy, or to display images... right? And that "opinion of the majority" you are talking about, is just a biased "fast-clicking" average. As long as almost half of the duels are wins and the other almost half are loses, it's pretty obvious that is only a matter of probability, not accurate evaluation.
Display 2 images and guess what are the chances to win or lose of both? You are right: 50-50.
So, because of this, the "general opinion" is not relevant.
And my second point against "general opinion" is the lack of education - most people don't have the education, the knowledge, the skills, the gift, to evaluate any artistic composition. So, don't tell me that a person who loves "those images with kitties and puppies" that get on their facebook feed are qualified to judge photos.
On the other hand, if you want that the overall level of this website to be "average", then it's ok to accept average opinions. Evolution never came from averaging, but from pushing the upper limits ;)
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Derei - you say that our imagescores are "just a biased "fast-clicking" average" - and I can tell you with mathematic certainty that you are not correct. One look at the leaderboard should tell you that. But if you can't see it right away look at the bottom of the leaderboard. Are you honestly telling me that you think the images on the bottom are of the same quality as those on the same as the top?

I also think our members are absolutely educated enough to judge what they like. If you are looking for images that are judged by a person with a certain set of qualifications then this is definitely NOT the place. We aren't trying find the images with most "artistic merit", we do not claim to, we are trying to find the images that people enjoy. And I would argue that for that purpose our voters combined with our algorithms do a very good job.
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Charlie

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To Jason,

"First of all, a lot of rule breaks: most of them similar images and duplicates. " - We have just hired two more content moderators to review images and should respond to reports faster. That said we do leave it to the community to report images that do not fit. Also - I will say that more than 70% of reports are invalid. For example we get many hundreds of reports for similar images per week that were we do not agree that the images are too similar. We are pretty liberal with our definition and do allow lots of similar images. It's the "very" that is important.

My suggestion is removed the report button and assign the two moderators to guard the leader board every hour or even every minute if possible by : a) re-categorized immediately the image which was submitted in wrong category. b) if the submitted image has very similar image or duplicate delete it immediately.
hope this helps.

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