Suggestion for New Category(ies)

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Suggestion: Pixoto should consider forming a category for photography that is natural and minimally processed, or, in contrast, form a category for photography that has extensive processing, includng HDR, but falls short of Digital Art.

Reasoning: 1. There is still a strong market and keen interest in photography that is natural and/or minimally processed. (One small example of this interest would be the public's continued respect for the photography of the National Geographic and the National Geographic's yearly photography contests (for it's readers/the public), which FORBIDS the use of HDR and extensive processing. See http://photography.nationalgeographic... ) 2. Pixoto members who utilize natural and minimally processed photography are placed at disadvantage when competing (Image Duels) with photography that has been extensively edited/processed. (As I noted in another post, it can be comparable to holding a 10 mile road race between a Fiat and a Ferrari.) This, therefore, causes bad feelings and some members to go elsewhere with some (or all?) of their photography that they would otherwise have posted within Pixoto. And that hurts Pixoto from a business standpoint because natural and minimally processed photography continues to be respected and in demand (from an interest and sales standpoint) and Pixoto's membership helps draw ad revenue.

Just as Pixoto found good reason to form categories for Instagram and Mobile, Novices Only, and Uncategorized, it would be wise for it to do the same for the above-mentioned.

Thank you for considering this.
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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Posted 5 years ago

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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Thank you for suggestion Bridgette.
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Renos Hadjikyriacou

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It want be easy to control this Bridgette, except when its very obviously and even then you will have to quarrel with submiters!
I my self have to use LR cause all my images are RAW, but i always try to have natural looking images.
And who is saying that natural Photos can not compare whith images that are extensive proccesed?
I am partisipating in lots of challenges and it was very seldom that i lost against one of those "Ferrari" images. ;-)
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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Renos, as you know I follow your account on Pixoto because I have great admiration for your photography and love your animal photography. And, I have not seen any of your animal photography that I believe is extensively processed.

While I have not seen all photos on Pixoto, the categories that seem to have the most amount of extensively processed photos seem to be in Landscape, Flowers and Transportation.

I admire National Geographic for all the obvious reasons, and they hold yearly contests for the public to submit their photos to them. And their contest rules are at http://photography.nationalgeographic... .

FYI, the National Geographic contest rules state:

"Please submit photographs that are un-manipulated and real, and that capture those special moments in time. The world is already full of visual artifice, and we don’t want the National Geographic Photo Contest to add to it. We want to see the world through your eyes, not the tools of Photoshop or setup photography.

Please do not digitally enhance or alter your photographs (beyond the basics needed to achieve realistic color balance and sharpness). If you have digitally added or removed anything, please don't submit the shot. We look at every photo to see if it's authentic, and if we find that yours is in any way deceptive, we'll disqualify it. In case of the winners, we will ask for the RAW files, if available, to be submitted for review.

DODGING AND BURNING: Dodging (to brighten shadows) or burning (to darken highlights) is fine, but please don’t overdo it. Your goal in using digital darkroom techniques should be to adjust the dynamic tonal range of an image so that it more closely resembles what you saw.

COLOR SATURATION: Just as with dodging and burning, your goal should be to make it real. Please avoid significant over- or under-saturation. A lot of photographers make the mistake of over-saturating color, making their images look cartoonish.

SOLARIZATION, MEZZOTINT, DUOTONE, ETC.: These are discouraged. There are a myriad of alteration "filters" available in digital photo software; please avoid them. They may be cool and fun, but they won’t help you in this contest.

BLACK-AND-WHITE IMAGES: Acceptable

CROPPING: Acceptable

STITCHED PANORAMAS: NOT Acceptable

HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE (HDR) IMAGES: NOT Acceptable

FISH-EYE LENSES: Unless used underwater, they are NOT acceptable."

Finally, just fyi, I have actually started to use some extensive processing techniques (including editing using HDR) on a few of my old photos just to see how they turn out. I will not, however, have them look unnatural and I don't want to continue to use it too much, because I will never LEARN how to be a good photographer if I have a software program hide (correct) my mistakes and keep me from learning my camera and how to best use it.

Regards,

Bridgette
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Nick Goetz

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Good stuff Bridgette... thanks for sharing that.
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Joyce Andersen

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if you don't know yet Bridgette, they used to have a 'pure' lable and it was impossible to monitor... if you like the rules to National Geographic, by all means enter your photos there....this is Pixoto and they can run it the way they want and we have the choice to play the game or not. I think you are not going to get them to change anything
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Lenore

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I'd forgotten about that "pure" label, Joyce ... great point. If I remember right, people constantly checked it off no matter what the photo. I think it was eliminated not long after I joined.
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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Joyce Anderson, FYI, I have only been a Pixoto member since the end of January 2015 and have never heard of the "pure" label that you are speaking of, nor how it was described, etc.

Also, if people don't ask Pixoto for change(s) by way of suggestions and explain their reasoning, not much is likely to change on its own.

P.S. I love National Geographic's own photography and the rules for their contest(s), but since I have never taken a photography course and only take photos as a hobby and casually, there is no way I would ever enter one of their contests. :) However, I do enjoy seeing the entries and winners because when I do, I am reminded of the true skill of photography, rather than just the skill of editing.
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Tim Hall

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Everyone who complains about "processed images" sees and ilkes plenty of processed images daily and don't even know it.

How do you know an image is processed if you can't tell it's been processed?

The only processed images anyone can point to are the ones which have been over-processed, badly, or poorly processed. Do you ever wonder how many photos you have liked because you thought they were "natural" when they were actually heavily processed by a skilled and complete photographer who is a master of image processing?

A while back a Pixoto member had a ban all the processed images idea and he pointed out one of my images as a good example of a natural non edited. non processed image. I wanted to laugh, but I felt so sorry for him...the image he pointed out had truly been through several stages of post processing, he thought it to be untouched and "natural" because he couldn't see any post processing!

Here is how the image looked before and after editing/processing...





I thought the best way to record this high contrast (HDR) scene was to open the lens wide enough to capture some recoverable details in the shadows without going so wide as to blow out the highlights. The idea being use the camera for the highlights and the processing software for shadows, Again, a pixoto member who was against post processing used this photo as an example of a "natural and unprocessed" photo..
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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I don't believe there are very many natural, UNedited photos in the entire world these days, much less on Pixoto. :) Oh, wait, I just found my old Polaroids....

That having been said, there is a difference between minimal processing and extensive and (especially) over-processing and the trained eye can usually tell such apart.

That having been said, how many people that participate in some way on Pixoto do you think have sufficient training and knowledge to know the difference by what they see on Pixoto? (My opinion, without any basis in fact and just supposition is, not many (a minority). But there are definitely some regular members, and there definitely is at Pixoto (and why they are part of the Pixoto team).
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Tim Hall

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Thanks for your kind response...Yours is a good question. Having lived for six decades I have found that very few people have sufficient training and knowledge to know anything about anything at all!...Especially concerning a subject as technically oriented as photography,

I think the advent of the digital camera is to blame, as film cameras produced a negative image or transparency which required "processing" by a professional in order to produce a final image.

Now that we have digital cameras, lo and behold, they produce a positive image
and folks think that's all there is to it,,,Woo hoo!..Point a camera at something and one is magically a photographer, one who's images are made perfect by the little genie person who lives inside the camera's internal processor.

These folks like to skip along, blissfully pointing and snapping their shutter at whatever random object or scene they happen upon. And I believe there is nothing wrong with that, until they find out there is more to learn in order to become a more accomplished photographer and they don't like it...I think the scientific term for that emotion is cognitive dissonance.

So rather then endeavor to learn more about their hobby they want the more knowledgeable folks banned so they themselves don't have to make any self improvements. I have more respect for the person who is trying and failing to improve their final images, then for anyone who wants other folk's images banned from this or that category. Should we have a category for, "those not interested in improving themselves". Or how about a category called, "I'm through learning"

I'm not trying to be offensive but that is how some see it...My policy is to each their own...Whether it be blah, grayed out, right from the digital camera scenes, hellish HDR nightmares, or everything else in between. and isn't that how it should be?
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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Tim, for the most part, I absolutely agree.
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Vanessa Lima

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It ́s my first time in the community and I came here for the same reason. Your sugestion, Bridgette, is similar to the suggest that I was thinking. I agree with you. One thing is evaluate the skills of edition and post production. Another thing is evaluate the skills of photographer, choose the light, metering...

The idea of PIXOTO is great and improves are necessary.
The problem is not the use of HDR, but the bad use or too much abuse of it. In my opinion, an extreme use transforms the picture into a ilustraction.
I am a new photographer, but in the basic course I did the teacher and his colleagues always says: look the scene or person and try to reproduce what you ́re seeing or regulate the camera to do what you want to show.

So, I think HDR could be a primary classification of the photos which contests would be based on.
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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