Serious voting problems

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Why does following image have so low image score...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

with 79 : 61 w/l ratio?
I believe that the same image, if submited by Frković or Nageswara would have at least IS 700. :(

Another question : Why don't my votes count in image score of images that I vote for?????
What's the point in submiting my images if I can't equally participate in contests with other plyers????

I think that by discounting some players' votes Pixoto commits largest possible scale contest fraud.
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Jadranka Bužimkić

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Posted 7 years ago

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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Jadranka. W/L ratio doesn't correlate to score. Please see www.pixoto.com/about for more information on this.

Unfortunately experience has proven to us that it is absolutely essential that we discount some users votes. If we don't the whole system falls apart (it's happened in the past). People do try to cheat and unfairly influence the vote. If we accepted every vote as the same then cheating would be easy and inevitable.
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Jadranka Bužimkić

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Jason, discounting SOME players' votes constitutes THE WORST KIND OF CHETING - per se.

Why?

a) You bulid your biz and other togs' reputation by collecting OUR images and OUR votes. The TWO comes in a package, together: VOTING & SUBMITTING (PUBLISHING) OUR BEST IMAGES.

It seems that your voting model is full of flaws and INCOMPETENT TO DRIVE UP REALLY BEST IMAGES if any single vote is SUCH A PROBLEM!

IF you want to say that I AM CHEATER, THEN YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT BY PUBLISHING - ALL AND COMPLETE VOTING HISTORY OF ME AND ALL AND ANY OTHER USERS TOO!!

I WANT TO SEE THE LIST OF ALL THE PLAYERS WHO CONSTANTLY VOTES AGAINST ME, TOO!!!

IF you can't provide such exhibit here, if it is some kind of "secret" or "classified information" then WE ALL, PARTICIPATING AT PIXOTO WILL KNOW THAT YOU AND YOUR TEAM IS CHEATING BY TWEAKING "YOUR ALGORITHM" IN A WAY THAT FAVORS ONLY YOUR FAVORITE TOGS ON BEHALF THE REST OF US.

I have absolutely nothing against publishing my total voting history here!

BUT, I am not so sure, that you will have no problem too, to display the history for all of us, as well as history of UNJUST PAUSING - STOPING PROGRES of images that acquired very positive W / L ratio.

I AM REALLY DISAPOINTED AND ANGRY!

P.S. THIS YEAR US has presidental elections. DO YOU THINK that ONLY voters who are known to vote for one or for another candidate will be permitted to vote??????????????????????????????
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Jadranka Bužimkić

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P.S. Me and any other player too, have the God Given Right to think and to express My / Our oppinion.

Your site offers voting to - EVERYONE, much more, no single player can submit images if he / she does not vote.

Therefore, VOTING:

a) consists influence on the score (image score) by itself
b) can't be discounted in favor of this or that image / player. And no vote can be discounted because it will restrict God Given Rights to us humans
c) proves only the basis to calculate image score
d) discounting therefore IS FRAUD because it takes out (seggregates) the votes and determinates by itself the outcome of voting process.

You have been given here tons of free suggestions how to improve the voting system, to minorize eventual "malicious" voting. The best one is to GIVE ALL AN ANY IMAGES - ENOUGH VOTES, scatered over the time period and over all time zones and participating groups of players.

INSTEAD OF reprogrmming your "algorithm" and giving the fair number of votes to ANY IMAGE, you decided that you are smarter than all other players and that discounting votes is right way.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Jadranka. I'm sorry that you are so frustrated with this. Making votes public is an interesting idea, and i would like to do it, that said I think it could easily end up being very confrontational with some players blaming others for perceived bad votes.

I don't currently have a better solution than to discount some users votes and, having analyzed the difference in voting patterns across countries and time zones, I am 100% sure that dispersing votes more evenly would not solve the problem.

We don't have favorite photographers and we don't bias towards any one person. The algorithms are based on the wisdom of the crowd and we do not subject ANY personal bias.

This is not an election. It is purely at our discretion who's votes are counted and how much of an impact they have. There are clearly some votes that should not count. For example, we have many people everyday that only vote for images on one side of the screen. If we were to count those votes how will this help us find the best image? We have other voters whose votes are statistically random. Why should we count those? When we show a image with a very low image score next to that of a high one - 90% of people vote the same way. For those that consistently vote for the lower quality image - how do we add value to our site by counting those votes?

Our goal is very simply to get the best images to the top of the leaderboard. Anything that stands in the way of us doing that (i.e. voting randomly, voting the opposite way from other people, voting for your friends, etc.) is counterproductive to that goal and we've got to find a way to weed it out.

I will also point out that since we started hiding discounted votes from our Stats and ImageDuel history the incidence of complaints about the quality of voting on Pixoto has dropped from several a day - to almost none. That tells me it's working.

You are still welcome to participate in Pixoto. You are able to earn credits. Our algorithms will keep analyzing your voting patterns and if what every tripped our red flags in the first place isn't there any more the system will start counting your votes again.

Again - I'm sorry that this is frustrating to you and I would, of course, understand if you decide not to participate in the future. I wish that I could count every vote - but I can't.

Best

Jason
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Jadranka Bužimkić

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Jason, from all you wrote here to me, as well as in other similar answers, you have stated that, in order for my vote be countable:

1. I have to vote for your favorite images and photographers and not as my wisdom, my knowledge of art and of photography tell me to do.

2. I have to obey YOUR PERSONAL DEALS with some photographers and groups, that allows them to win day by day and makes all other members more or less frustrated.

3. I have to vote along "popular line" instead voting for real quality - the images that get stopped by your heavily tweaked algorithm.

Simply, YOU WANT ME TO CHEAT REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS AND VOTE AGAINST THEM, SO THAT BUNCH OF - PIECE OF HDR SNAPSHITER "ARTISTS" - TAKE THEIR DAILY PORTINON OF GLORY AND A FISTFULL OF DOLLARS.

If I knew in the first place, that I will have to participate in your LARGE SCALE INTERNATIONAL PHOTOGRAPHIC FRAUD, then I would never join your site, but would do anytihing to avoid it!

I don't know why you are pretending to be deaf and dumb any time that any of us suggests you some improvement over your current ranking system. It is not my business to know.

If I turn to be good girl and vote the way you want, you will return my voting power? Heheheh! I would be really naive to believe in that!

Your words here above, and in many other posts and e-mails are clear: YOU - PIXOTO - decide who is entitled to be voted for and get badges and winns. WE, the players can cheat along or go home.

I do not wish you that Pixoto drops dead soon. Quite contrary. But, the way you run (ruin) it, is such, that Pixoto will die very soon, just as someone commes with a bit more fair voting site.

And now, I challenge you to:

1. Either return me and my daughter Jasna voting power ASAP without any prerequisites from your side or

2. Write me here and publicly to leave - get off - the site!

I am sad, far more than being only very angry and frustrated

Jadranka
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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No Jadranka, you don't have to vote for images that you think are bad. You just have to FOLLOW THE RULES AND STOP VOTING FOR YOUR DAUGHTER (and she for you). From our rules (see www.pixoto.com/contest ):

"If you are voting and you know whose image is in the duel – YOU ARE BIASED – skip the duel!"

This is one of the first things our fraud prevention algorithm checks for and voting on someone you know's images is the surest way to have your votes discounted.

I do, as a matter of principal, reject most of insinuations about me, and Pixoto, you have made above. We have built this site by listening to our users and will continue to do so. I have nothing but the best of intentions and I don't favor anyone one or any group.
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Michelle Meenawong

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does it mean that if we know the photographer and if his photo is the best in one duel, we have to vote for the worst just because we don't know this photographer ? It's fair to vote for the best even if it's a friend's or a family member's one! And also voting for the left or the right one in a row is absolutely normal. I could see that many times, that the best pictures is on one side for 10 or more duels
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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No - don't vote for the worst - skip the duel.
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Michelle Meenawong

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yes Jason I know, I was joking. Personally I skip many many duels.....
Have a nice day
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Jadranka Bužimkić

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Jason,

Other togs here award My Daughter their votes. How commes that I can't join THAT MAJORITY and give Her My symbolic support by voting along???

BTW, her talent is well proven, even here with all these awards! Or you want to say now that these awards are less worth than the others, than the bunch of awards for Mr. Frković and/or Indonesians? Khmmmmm....?!?!?

Please, don't forget... that is the will of majority!!

If you had a daughter and option to vote for or against her... to support her turn your back on her, what would you do?? Would you then stick to the same principle that you are teaching me here???

So, if you want to say that I won my awards simply because My Daughter voted for Me and She won Her awards simply because I voted for Her, I must dissapoint you and direct you to check ALL OTHER PEOPLE''S VOTES FOR THESE IMAGES!

I know that you are to busy to protect your biz and your deals, but you will not do it at my account.

BTW, Your following words simply can't be applied on Pixoto:

quote you: "No Jadranka, you don't have to vote for images that you think are bad. You just have to FOLLOW THE RULES AND STOP VOTING FOR YOUR DAUGHTER (and she for you). From our rules (see www.pixoto.com/contest ):

"If you are voting and you know whose image is in the duel – YOU ARE BIASED – skip the duel!" "

Why??? Simply, NOT I but YOU (Pixoto) show All The Time All The Images Signed By Their Respective Authors:

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photography

Therefore, NO IMAGE ON PIXOTO IS ANONIMOUS! Therefore, NOT I BUT YOU ACTIVELY DISOBEY THE RULE OF NOT VOTING FOR THE IMAGE OF THE PERSON THAT ONE MIGHT KNOW!!!

After a couple of weeks on site, it is normal to "know" everyone who posts a lot of images. You don't have to know anyone in person. But you know who they are and which images belong to each of more visible authors - players.

HAVE YOU EVER run the database query to find out HOW MANY PEOPLE do intentionally and regulary vote against Me, against My Daughter or against any of players???? I don't think you have. If you take some time to do so, you will find a very long list of names who simply KILL IN COLD BLOOD thousands of great images and cut their way to the top.

THE STORY IS SIMPLE: YOU CAN'T ALLOW ME (AND SOME OTHER TOGS) TO VOTE FOR THE REALLY GREAT IMAGES! Is it because you have some personal deals with others or not, is not my biz.

First make your algorithm FAIR, don't tweak it, let the really great images progress. When you do so, when you clean your backyard, then come and teach other people how to do it. Until then, better call your team to make really functional and open-tp-all and fair-to-alkk algorithm. THEN you will not "have any need" to discount votes.

Sleep well behind your office desk!
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Justin Benson

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I would love to chime in here since I am not under any pressure by the website to be respectful.

Jadranka, it is frustrating, sometimes bad images to make it to the top. It happens, especially in the fine art category, cause thats entirely based on perception. You do have some great photos on your page! I really like some of the photos. The one you posted the link to at the beginning of your post, is not as great as your other photos. I am not saying that the photo itself isn't that good, but if you look in the flower section the other flower shots have a different feel. Trust me, I felt the same way with some of my flower shots, but then I started studying them, realizing what makes certain ones better. The shot you posted, lacked detail. The flower is beautiful, the water drops are nice, but its just a big blob of color that could use either some lighting, or more texture. The lines of the flower are nice, but what happens with some flower shots, is that the camera gets tricked and does not capture the texture of the flower. Anyone can get a close shot of a flower, but being able to have the precise lighting, focus, and texture, is what really sets aside a great flower vs. an average flower photo.

With that being said, I do agree, sometimes bad images make it to the top, and its a tough system to monitor, I can only imagine how hard it is for a website like this to work, and keep its head above water. Sometimes I agree, the algorithm seems off, photos I think are stunning dont go anywhere, because sometimes people vote against it for who knows why! Other times, my image gets voted against, because its competing with some images that are truly fantastic! While the Pixoto people will tell you it doesnt matter when you enter the image. It really does. If you enter your image at the beginning of the week, it has to compete with the images from the previous week, so it will end up going against the worst and best of the previous week. While the algorithm is good, it will be tougher because the previous week is settled. If you enter mid-week, you compete against old and new images. And ultimately, your images are going to be voted on by whoever is voting at that time. Sometimes the people voting, dont really know how to view art. And while pixoto says they do a good job of monitoring the cheaters and amateur art viewers, no matter how you look at it, to some extent, there will be better times to submit. I find that if I submit an image before I go to bed, I usually wake up and its 500-600 points in. Thats part of the reason why they have the adjusted vote system. Imagine if the people who know nothing about art, starting having very valued votes? I bet your images would do worse, because they would not vote on flowers based on the photo, but rather which type of flower or what color flower they like better. Thats why it has to be adjusted. A tulip lover would always vote for tulips, a dog lover would always vote dogs over cats. Whereas with pixotos current system, the people who vote in a predictable manner, and have differing votes than the vast majority, their votes count for less.

Regarding Pixotos policy on not voting for your daughter. There is a button on the bottom of the Image Duel that says SKIP. Just click that, your vote wont go to either photo. You cannot vote for your daughter, cause that is technically cheating. It does not matter how good you think your daughters photos are, you have a special place for her in your heart. I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE THE ONE CHEATING BY VOTING FOR HER. But there cannot be exceptions. If they said, okay vote for your family member, then my entire family could make pixoto accounts and image duel and vote for me everytime and pixoto could do nothing for it. Thats the idea of it, by randomizing the duels, and devaluing the votes of people who vote for family members consistently, it erases the idea of cheating. If you look at the top images on pixoto, most of them deserve to be there, so your idea of pixoto directing you to vote for certain images is cannot be true. I have had images reach the 1st place in their category, and I have no association with the site. I do get frustrated with it sometimes. Nothing will be perfect.
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Jadranka Bužimkić

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Dear Justin,

thank you for your respect for My images and your constructive comment.

My first 35 years I lived in communist regime, where we had an obligation to to vote as communist party told us, by directive from above. Nobody could vote differently and people who tried to think or act opposite to party directions were severely hurt and at least marginalized, but more often sentenced to jail.

After 6 months on Pixoto, I and several other people here understand that the site is under strict direction of it's founders, like communist party secretaries, who direct the voting system in a way that always and ever the same pack of photographers (comparable to hi ranked party commrades) get promoted to the top.

I am not seeking glory nor money here for myself, nor for my daughter. I am seeking here the simple right to vote for the images that I, with decades of experience in art and photography, find to be better than others. I speak here in My name, in Her name and in the name of countless photographers who get to accept what "party leaders" decide or do not have the right to vote.

Do you really mean that ONE VOTE, My vote for my daughter could bring her to the top? If PIXOTO publishes the voting base, anyone will be able to see that it is not My vote to be decisive for Her success. She has plenty of images that never came to me in duels.

Mr. Jason Kiefer revolved the theme here to his benefit, with that silly accusation. The REAL DIMENSION OF THE PROBLEM HERE IS that Justin favors certain togs, be it for private deals with them or not, it is irrelevant. He favors MR. BORIS FRKOVIĆ, who joined Pixoto in the very beginning of the site, and, thanks to the group, here known as "Greb Gang", and their votes he quickly promoted himself to some important figure.

His images may look good in camera, but what we see here is not photography any more, is not art of any kind, and his place in Croatian Photography ( as a social category, not some website ) is: ABSOLUTE ZERO!

My Real Problem is that I cannot vote for Mr. Frković's images, because all that I know about photography as art and craft tells me that most of his praised images are Very Poor, when measured by real photographic and art standards. That said, his images do not deserve such awards and therefore, Mr. Frković does not deserve to be nowhere close to leading ranks, and specially not the No.1.

Very recently, after settling at Pixoto's No.1 place, far better photographer, Ed Von Emms lost suddenly cca. 500.000 Pixoto points, to be returned to third place. HOW is that???

I know about photography. I know about art. I know about really great images. And I have given many many many votes to such images. All my votes on My Daughter's images and even on Mr. Frković's images do not count to mere 1/1000 of My total voting.

Therefore, Jason Kiefers allegations are FALSE AND DO NOT CONSTITUTE THE REASON FOR DISCOUNTING MY VOTE.

And for the very end, let me know: Would you ever join the site where you know that your vote will not count equally to others, but be less worth? Or knowing that contest organizers direct voting for whatever purpose of theirs?

If so, I can understand, You probably never lived in communism.

Please, do take some more time and watch closely my gallery next days to see and understand what I am writing here about and where the real problem of pixoto is.

Kind regards!

Jadranka
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Justin Benson

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Jadranka,
I have never lived in Communism. And I hope not to ever have to! While I totally get what you are saying, I just don't think it has grounds. Unfortunately, I think there are many talented people on the site, but there are also many times where I feel like I am sorting through someones facebook photos. How many pictures of someones shoes, and blurry dogs do I have to go through? Unfortunately, those people actually think they are great photographers, and with that, they vote in a certain way. Their votes need to be discounted in order for this to work. Because as I stated before, those people are going to vote for whatever they feel. Those are the people who will vote for something just because they like the subject matter. They are the people who vote for photoshopped images in the wrong category, cause they dont understand how to read exif data and photos to understand that you cannot shoot a sunset, with 6 bolts of lightening, using a city during the daytime as the foreground shot, with exif data reading f/3.5 1/1250 shutter 100 iso. So they vote for it to win in Weather category, even though its all photoshopped. So there is a need to discount votes like that.

As far as your votes, should they be discounted? No. Will they? Absolutely. While I think the analogy of democracy and communism do not apply to a photography website. I will do my best to relate it. Just as in a democracy, there is an electoral system in place here. Instead of every vote having equal power, the value of votes are divided by the density. For example, in the United States, even if 70% of the people vote for one person, he does not have to win the election. Its based on electoral votes. Meaning, that each state, is given a "value" for their votes. Even if 100,000 people vote for Person A in one state, another state might have 50,000 people vote for Person B, but the votes for Person B will be worth more because that state has more electoral value in the system. So its actually ironically similar to the United States. Again, your votes maybe shouldn't be discounted, and no they WON'T push your daughter over the top to win. BUT if they overlook this, than anybody could recruit voters to attempt to push them over the top. The idea of the site, is that at random, your photo is displayed to anybody, and they vote, ultimately, giving as anonymous a voting system as they can. The point is, if you enter other contests (like 500px) you have to make friends, find people, vote on other peoples images, and they return the favor. There are NO FAVORS on this site. I mean like you said, sure to some degree you can figure out what a persons photos are, but, the idea is that they are trying to avoid that. So if its found that someone consistently votes for a certain persons images, maybe there is a relation. In your case, you have the same last name, so it almost just spells it out. So the easiest way to handle it, is to discount your votes. Since, it would be unfair for other voters to "cheat" and have family members have accounts and vote for each other. And instead of the pixoto staff looking at the duels in which you voted for your daugther, and determining which photo they think is better, it is more fair to just discount your votes and not even bother looking at the duel. Cause THE RULES SAY SKIP A DUEL IF YOU KNOW THE AUTHOR OF THE PHOTO. Ultimately, you could be honest and follow the rules and skip the duel, and your votes would have never been discounted.

Last but not least. Yes, it is frustrating when your images don't do well. I have images that I posted lasted night, paused yet again. They should be doing better in my opinion. There is one photo of mine, 163 points and paused. I have many people interested in this photo in the real world. I have already been asked for large canvas prints of it (I shot it on Saturday!). But thats the way the voting system goes, some people just vote a certain way. Another example, I have 3 photos on my page, non broke 600. Those 3 photos are being published in a world wide book for a very notable organization. One of those photos has a 500 image score. That image will be printed on a 20 x 30 and displayed in a the Chinese training facility for this organization. Its a bummer that the image did not do good on this site. but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Do I throw my arms up in the air and yell communism? No. Is the system off? Yes, sometimes, images that should do better don't! And sometimes, if you resubmit 3 weeks later, those images do great! It just depends on your audience, and you will never get a consistent audience. For instance, I upload 10 photos per week, so I only duel 100 times each week. I do it for a little bit of time each day. My votes are going to better than someone who has no idea what they are doing. But there is no way to make it work out that your photos get votes from both good and bad voters. Thus, votes are worth a certain amount based on your voting.

To wrap this all up, this is nothing like communism, simply because the voting system is the same as the U.S.A. And the biggest reason that it is not like communism? Anyone can join or leave as they please. No one is forcing you to submit images or participate in the site. I am not saying that you should not participate. But I am saying that you should understand, this is a website, and they are doing what they feel necessary in order to give everybody a fair shot.

And in regard to Boris Frkovics images. I think they are hideous. BUT I know exactly why people vote for it. Because they dont understand art. Thats the exact think I speak of. I know the website is not guiding the vote, because many of my friends who like to call themselves photographers, simply do those HDR over saturated shots, and think its the best art ever. I strongly disagree with it, I think its hideous and have never seen HDR that I actually thought was well used. But todays society seems to think that those images are fantastic, cause they look unlike other shots. So to untrained art viewers, those images a great. And unfortunately, as I said, Pixoto does have a lot of those types of users! There are serious artists, but they are out weighed by these folks who just bought a DSLR and think they know what photography is. And it would not be fair to discount their votes, simply because you and I think they vote for the wrong images. The only fair way to discount votes is to discount votes that break rules such as, voting for images you know, consistently voting in a pattern (not viewing images, just clicking random ones) and voting in a way that disagrees with a vast majority of other voters. If I always vote for images, that get paused, than it can be concluded, I am attempting to cheat by voting down images that end up going towards the top.

I hope I shed some light on it. I know I won't be able to change your mind, because you are upset, and you have made your decision that it is unfair. Again, I feel that way sometimes too, especially since they released the Pixoto Pro. I find it harder to get votes, and harder to get images to go to the top. Many images of mine that I would have gotten above 575 on before Pixoto Pro, seem to be stuck these days. Such is life. I will continue participating simply because it forces me to shoot more photos. But I will also continue to enter free photo contests for real recognition and honors and publishings, and printing and framing my art for sale on my own, and I will continue doing portrait sessions and weddings on weekends, and I will keep my day job to pay my bills.
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Michelle Meenawong

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wow, this is a post. Very well said Justin. I hope Jadranka can cool down with this. Unfortunately we have no option to click on a name to see his profile and pictures. I would love it to see her pictures.
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Justin Benson

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Thank you! I just think its important to discuss it! Its disappointing when things don't go your way, but there is not a reason to scream conspiracy theory and attack the people of Pixoto. It would be one thing if we were paying money for this but ultimately, the site is free, and for it being a free site, they are doing quite a bit to make it work, especially since there is not advertising on the site. So its annoying when someone attacks the workers as if they are holding people back. Its a fair shot to introduce people to your artwork, and ultimately, if you dont like it, go to 500px and try and get noticed there, I can tell you, you wont. I joined, uploaded a couple of photos that got hardly any recognition, and I could not get any people to look at it. This site is great for the simple reason that people have to look at your image, someway, or somehow, you are guaranteed views on your images. No other site can say that. My flickr was a ghost town, so I stopped posting.

And here is Jadrankas photo page
http://www.pixoto.com/beltanica

And I believe this would be his daughter (I found it by checking his followers)
http://www.pixoto.com/jasnaxx

Cause I do think its relevant to the post to view both of their profiles and understand, that he is right, they both have some great work. Like I said, the image in question from Jadranka, is not worthy of tons of points, sorry to put it that way, but there are things that I can criticize about it. Thats the way the world goes. But they have other work that definitely deserves to be where it is!
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Tigi Borg

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Dear Fellow Togs, Jadranka, Justin and Michelle!

Six very interesting months are behind Me here at Pixoto. Many posted images, duels, bitter feelings after noticing how things really run here.

I must simply uphold Jadranka's side here, her and everyone's right to vote with fully counted vote. I do it just because I know Jadranka well, I know She got here with honest intention and that she votes honestly for better images. I know the situations where She did vote her Daughter pics down. And I know that she gave many votes to these "beautiful" oversaturated and popular images.

The only thing Jadranka wants and deserves to have, is to have full counting vote and the same for her Daughter. We have discussed it many times and She did never want to pursuit any awards, badges, nor any money from the site. Not for Her, nor for Her Daughter. Just a little attention for her amateur photographs.

She only wants the voting to be open to all participating players equally, and that all the votes decide image' and players' rankings. She has full right to want so.

Any other "system" embedded in voting process means fixing the outcome one way or another, in favor of one group / author / image type or another. That constitutes cheating by organizer, no matter does he / it want to cheat or not.

To be specific: Once the game is in progress you don't change the rules, you don't change the referees (judges), you don't change the system to fit any side.

Pixoto asks us to SKIP duels where we know the author. OK.
Pixoto publishes on the web any and all images with attributions to authors.
Therefore, each an every player can connect image to author.
Therefore, Pixoto itself keeps it impossible to keep image anonimity and breaks the imposed rule.
As a result: Images are not anonimous and The Rule becomes pure Recomendation.

There is a very large breach of rules from the Pixoto side, when it comes to categorization. We players are left to report wrong categories. We do it frequently. But, many images do not get recategorized, due to Pixoto's deflection of holding by it's own rules.
The result: Categorization is not strict and is lose and only declaratory recomendation and many images and their authors get hurt.
Very specific is the overuse of HDR, as Justin wrote here.

I will stop giving examples of Pixoto rule enforcement here, just to make the post constructive.

BUT I have to point out to Jason Kiefer's words that appeared on this support blog today (May 22nd) that He considers quite normally that Pixoto has hundreds of members without any single image posted, who "Like to Duel" and have the full right, as well as - I assume - full voting power. They don't even need to produce any image, whatsoever, to present themselves as photographers or artists, and get their voting license for - free!!

So, let's think twice, about How Great Damage Jadranka and Jasna, both here on Pixoto awarded togs, have, what frustration they have, what pain they have, for being discounted.

And I know for sure, they were not discounted for these couple of votes giving to each others good images. They have been "shut up" because the site owner want's to protect certain "ballance of power".

Neither Jadranka, nor Jasna need any guidance on voting. They gave plenty of their votes to fine images here, even these that got later paused by the famous - bloated - Pixoto algorithm, the algorithm that did not create itself, but was created by group of people who have a very specific idea what they want to accomplish with it, be it honest or not - I will not directly judge.

I call Jason Kiefer and Pixoto crew to restore Jadranka's and Jasna's and all other players' who participate with their images in competition - a full and nondiscountable vote. I call the Pixoto crew to publicly apologize to victims of their mindless and sloppy action.

Yes, site is "free", but not as Justin here described, but in a way that thousands of photographers of all skill levels work free for the site by posting images, by dueling and by policing the site instead of it's founders / owners.

SIte founders / owners collected on their servers and backups a lot of images - for free, just as any other photo site does, tons of clicks, and everything they need to attract advertisers, get some income and hire more people to work.

Anyone can join, but nobody can leave the site in a manner that all and any tiny bit of information, including personal data, submitted images, voting data and habits gets deleted once and for good. Like getting member of communist party. Once you join, a piece of information always stays here.

AND - if the site ever published on any of it's rules or main pages that it practices or will practice the "electoral" or any indirect - but directed - voting system, they would end up by having at most a couple of family members and close friends to - play!

This is everything but fun... just contrary to Pixoto's homepage call:
"It's fun and it's addictive".

No fun here. No at all!
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Justin Benson

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Interesting that Jadrankas post was removed, he says it was not him who deleted the post. It showed some convincing evidence, but none of you will get to see it. Conspiracy!!! Well, actually, I was wondering, Ed Von Ems has beaten my spider picture with poorly lit pictures. I am sure the results and what not will change. But It was shocking that my image played 3 of his images in a row, and lost to all of them, and they were not on the same level!

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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Rifa Riza

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Please use assessment Pixoto fot the right way, appraisal often do not photograph as expected, because the judge is not those who know about photography

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