score drop during weekly challenge

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Hi Pixoto, as i said before i will keep testing voting system with different categories and especially during weekly challenges.
This is second time that this happens ... first time was with "Coin" with this image https://www.pixoto.com/images-photogr.... Score dropped from around 720 to 670 because i kept boosting after 100 duels.
This time is in "Cold drinks" with this image https://www.pixoto.com/images-photogr.... It dropped from 712 to currently 658, i will keep boosting to see how low it will go.

Is this for real? Was it just my luck to get into 700's and images don't belong there? Can you explain this behavior? Whats wrong with my pictures, all other members please feel free to comment and make judgments too?

I will keep doing the same with this one https://www.pixoto.com/images-photogr.... There is still lots of time until Thursday before winners are announced.
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Nikola Medjugorac

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Posted 7 years ago

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Linda Hayes

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Hi Nikola!

I have also noticed similar...My photos are not near the caliber of yours, but I have also noticed if I try to boost for more votes past 100, they tend to drop lower, rather than go higher...So now that I have so many credits from doing lots of voting...I really don't know what I will do with them...It doesn't seem to be worth it to try to boost pictures that have already had 100 duels...

Just my experience, so far, and I am pretty new, yet! :)
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Nikola Medjugorac

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Thanks Linda, you have some great images too!
I am not worried that score might drop or raise (mostly never do in my case) but to have such huge drops its really mind blowing. I mean, in this case those images should never reach 700 at first place. And i can guarantee if i resubmit again the same image it will never get near the score it did the first time. Its almost they got targeted so no matter what you do it is almost certain they will under-perform in further duels.
I boost images because its competition and if one believes that image is good enough to compete at the top then should not hesitate to do so. And i understand that image might not get at the top but honestly it should be in range of +-15 points, not - 50-60.
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Linda Hayes

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Thanks Nikola! Yes, those ARE pretty drastic drops...My top one dropped at least 14 points, and in MY case, it was a bit scary for me as probably the ONLY pix I'll have for a while that has ANY chance of staying in the '700 club'... [novice, that I am...] :) But I hadn't been able to even get one into the 600's until that tiger pic, and it dropped something like 21 points, as I was trying to boost it, at least 3 times... [3x5] and it kept dropping, even though sometimes it would win over a higher scored image... :(

Well...Good luck! :)
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Sherry Andreason

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It is normal that some images will hit a high point and then start to back down as they challenge images with high scores, If your image is in the 700s and you Duel Boost, it has to face other images in the 700s which are all very good images. Every time your image loses the Image score drops,

However I would say the same for an image that reaches 612 and is boosted and drops. If the image has reached the peak of image score for that image (612, 700, or even 550) and it starts dueling images with higher scores, and losing, it will lose Image Score.
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Nikola Medjugorac

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Sorry Sherry not very helpful answer from you!
The point is when image climbs up it need to duel also with higher scoring images to reach whatever maximum. It is normal that will keep dueling images in that range and loose some, win some ... but to start loosing so much that score drops over 60 points, its a bit harsh i would say. Why it doesn't go up and score + 60?!
Whatever, i can see you will not be very helpful here and that you guys absolutely have no idea why is this happening.
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Sherry Andreason

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Looking at the duel history on your image, https://www.pixoto.com/images-photogr... I am seeing a fairly steady minor decline, it is not a huge drop really, look at the graph on the right side of the screen the image hits a little peak and then drops a little but pretty much stays on a level course after the drop, The other thing I am seeing is quite a few losses in a row,

As for a connection with the weekly challenge, I would say that if you submit the image early in the week as you did here, the image was submitted on Monday the 19th, your competition is going to increase as the challenge progresses with people submitting their best images in the same category trying to win the challenge. Does this make sense? There will be lot of photographers entering photos into a subject area they may not normally enter, solely because of the challenge and the images they enter will be what they consider to be their best images.
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Nikola Medjugorac

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Image reached 100+ duels and stayed at 712. Then i boosted once and reached 716 or something like that. Yes, some new images were introduced into contest but only 2 were reaching 700. Not sure if you were monitoring but there was huge gap between first 4-5 and rest. So i would assume that image would be around 700 ... but not to drop for 50+ points.
:) what do you mean is not huge drop really? Well its constant decline ... ratio win/loss is reversed completely. By the way most of images that were in the play when i submitted are also in that range, so its not huge amount of them now in the play that are so good. Otherwise they would be reaching 690+.
As i say its not clear and obviously there are strange things here. I also noticed that some images are not even touched with duels any more because players are not boosting. But if is competition then occasionally system should duel them too, right?
Its clear from the observation that duels over 100 will take the score down and depending if is weekly challenge or not, that drop will be bigger or smaller.

But the way, can we see somewhere report how many images were sold in canvases and downloaded as stock? Like other stock sites, you can see by any image how many times were sold. I can not find anything about this. And i even don't know if anyone outside this community looked at any of my images. Just would like to know for my information and i think we should be provided with this if we are contributors, right? Why should be secret?
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Sherry Andreason

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I will talk to the techs about the image score drop and see what they have to say,

For information on sales, in your account page there is a tab for Earnings, https://www.pixoto.com/settings/earnings any sales of canvas or stock would show up there. We are getting ready to start promoting the stock service later this year.

On the Image Detail View (large view) the first line of the EXIF info is Unique Views, that number shows how many different people (devices) have viewed your image.

At this time we do not have a way to see where the viewers are coming from, inside or outside of the community.
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Nikola Vlahov

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I seldom see exactly the opposite situation. Before daily prizes, it seems like it's set up an invisible barrier, points stagnating or slightly declining. After the "battle" for the daily prizes ended, the picture seemed to get the wind in the back and collect more points. I didn't follow it strictly, but I have this impression.
But it all together can be a purely subjective. As soon as someone loses points, someone else gets them, right? It is difficult to identify an anomaly, especially if you do not know exactly how algorithm works.
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Nikola Medjugorac

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Images with higher number of duels i picked up from my images duels last week.
Most of them are from last week and some of them are not but they were in duels with my images. No constant decline ("drop") in scores.

128 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
134 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
140 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
156 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
161 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
164 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
167 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
167 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
187 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
192 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
277: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
579 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

You are welcome to go and pick any image from last week under "Food and Drinks" and check images with higher number of duels.

Ok it seems like i was just lucky guy to get over 710 but actually should be below 650.
This one also goes down nicely :) http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra.... Again i was such a lucky guy, i should have left it at 719 when i got a chance.

I don't like you Pixoto any more. More i play, more i get upset with myself to waste my time here. Don't take me wrong, competition is good for us to keep making better photographs but when i see number one image from challenge that honestly has such poor lighting and will never be able to sell as stock photo then i am not sure whats the point of this DuelImage system.
I thought this is wonderful system so you can get more exposure for people who are browsing stock photos. Most likely 90% of images here would not be accepted as stock photography because over-sharpening, not in focus, blur, poor lighting, chromatic aberration, noise etc.

This is why i have asked about stats ... how many images has been sold as stock on this website? You are simply ignoring my question! I am here and payed subscription in hope i can sell some photos. You are giving me answer like go to your "Earnings" and "Unique Views", like i don't know that! It tells nothing about selling stock photography on this website. If i am up for grabs in competitions i would go to ViewBug lets say .... if i want real recognition, i would go to international salons. But i really want to just try make some money from selling images and on other stock photography sites its hard to be seen anyway. Pixoto trying to resolve that issue but honestly you went completely off the track.

If you tell me that i made mistake for being here because obviously i sold 0 images, means i haven't contributed anything to your sales then i would accept that and move on. Only benefit you have from me is by submitting more images and voting so that your stats (traffic) can go up and that i purchased PRO subscription.

And also whats going on with 1000 images per week to give away $20, these weekly numbers will almost never be reached. Then rather do what Darrell Raw suggested and remove cash prizes. You are just tricking poor people, promoting group voting and what not because of this. So if this is not stock site and if there are very little cash rewards because of high demands .. what is this then?
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Nikola Medjugorac

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Images with higher number of duels i picked up from my images duels last week.
Most of them are from last week and some of them are not but they were in duels with my images. No constant decline ("drop") in scores.

128 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
134 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
140 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
156 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
161 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
164 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
167 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
167 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
187 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
192 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
277: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
579 duels: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

You are welcome to go and pick any image from last week under "Food and Drinks" and check images with higher number of duels.

Ok it seems like i was just lucky guy to get over 710 but actually should be below 650.
This one also goes down nicely :) http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra.... Again i was such a lucky guy, i should have left it at 719 when i got a chance.

I don't like you Pixoto any more. More i play, more i get upset with myself to waste my time here. Don't take me wrong, competition is good for us to keep making better photographs but when i see number one image from challenge that honestly has such poor lighting and will never be able to sell as stock photo then i am not sure whats the point of this DuelImage system.
I thought this is wonderful system so you can get more exposure for people who are browsing stock photos. Most likely 90% of images here would not be accepted as stock photography because over-sharpening, not in focus, blur, poor lighting, chromatic aberration, noise etc.

This is why i have asked about stats ... how many images has been sold as stock on this website? You are simply ignoring my question! I am here and payed subscription in hope i can sell some photos. You are giving me answer like go to your "Earnings" and "Unique Views", like i don't know that! It tells nothing about selling stock photography on this website. If i am up for grabs in competitions i would go to ViewBug lets say .... if i want real recognition, i would go to international salons. But i really want to just try make some money from selling images and on other stock photography sites its hard to be seen anyway. Pixoto trying to resolve that issue but honestly you went completely off the track.

If you tell me that i made mistake for being here because obviously i sold 0 images, means i haven't contributed anything to your sales then i would accept that and move on. Only benefit you have from me is by submitting more images and voting so that your stats (traffic) can go up and that i purchased PRO subscription.

And also whats going on with 1000 images per week to give away $20, these weekly numbers will almost never be reached. Then rather do what Darrell Raw suggested and remove cash prizes. You are just tricking poor people, promoting group voting and what not because of this. So if this is not stock site and if there are very little cash rewards because of high demands .. what is this then?
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Nikola Medjugorac

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there is some glitch here, can't update and instead created exact copy!? Wanted to change "payed" to "paid", that's all.
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Sherry Andreason

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Nikola it was simply a misunderstanding, I thought you wanted to know how to track your own sales. Currently there is no information on overall sales. We are still working on the system and have not begun to promote the site as a stock sales site. We are working towards promotion of stock sales and hope to be promoting it with in the next few months,

I escalated your questions regarding the Duels to someone with more technical knowledge than myself.
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Charlie

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Sherry just wanna insert this question here in this forum and i hope it's relater with this thread.
Why is it that when a certain image reached 700+ image score and loose from duel it drops higher points, but when it wins it gain lesser points. Example, loss -4 win +2
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Sherry Andreason

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Hi Charlie, I will try to find an answer for you on that.
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Charlie, if I remember correctly it has to do with other image score.

So lets say you have a photo that is 700, it wins a duel over photo that is 800 and it will gain more points then if it wins in a duel with photo that is 600 or less.

Same goes with loosing. If your is 700 photo lost to a 800 photo it will loose less then if it looses to a 600 or below photo.

From my experience this is how it goes, but if I am wrong please correct me :)
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Charlie

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you're right Jasenka, i've been observing this for along time but why it's like that
win should have more privilege than loss. Hope Sherry has some explaination and clarification about this.
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Charlie, please reread my post :)

I stated that if you win oner lower ranked photo you will gain less then if you win higher ranked photo then your.

Also, if you loose from higher ranked photo then yours you will loose less score then if you loose by lower ranked photo then yours :)

And in my eyes that is how it should be, I don't have any problem with it :)
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Charlie

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my point Jasenka is lossing should not overtake the winning points whatever ranked your photo is example: image score 700 win +3 loss -2 still you gain 1 point. or should be even; if your image score is 700 win +2 loss -2 so that your image score retain to the original score. Hope you get what i mean now.
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Sherry Andreason

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Jasenka's answer sounds correct, sorry I have not gotten clarification as of yet, the team was busy Monday working on a couple of technical issues.
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Feh A'in

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Can I withdraw from weekly challenge !!
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Hello Feh, can you please post link to the image you wish to remove from challenge and also if you can post link to the challenge itself?
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PicksAutoMan

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if I withdraw from a contest will I get my points back?

I would like to withdraw from
http://www.pixoto.com/challenges/must...

My entries are http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra... and
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Prakash, I'm sorry that challenge has been deleted because it was an error. We have refunded your credits for entering photos to this challenge.

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