Please take the duels seriously and vote responsibly!

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  • Updated 4 years ago
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I just want to signal that some people consider voting a mockery and probably do not even look at the images they vote for during duels. This is wrong and if people do not take voting seriously then Pixoto has no point and photos without merit will rise up in score against good pictures. Pixoto should enforce some punishment for those who do not take duels seriously.
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Ludmila Shumilov

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Posted 4 years ago

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John Larson

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Ludmila, I think the real problem is that too many on this site do take voting in the duels seriously, as long as their votes benefit their personal submissions or the submissions of friends and family. I think indiscriminate voting plays a part in the outcome of one's score when you see you've lost to an out of focus, poorly composed image, but I think the greater evil in the voting process can be attributed to bias for or against one's image.
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Ludmila Shumilov

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I have never considered the possibility of existing groups of friends or relatives. It may well be the case. However I've encountered too many times pretty decent images I posted that lost in duels against very poor shots, ot only once but several times in a row. I also noticed among the submissions to a few contests I organized some very bad images with inexplicably high scores and I thought this must be the result of careless voting. The idea that incorrect voting may be attributed to bias for or against one's image is new to me but probably true.
It is easy to look at the leaderboard of every category and wonder how did many top ranked photos get there?
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Ludmila, we have duel ban algorithm that would ban user from voting who has suspicious voting patter. It is in place for about one and a half years.

I hope this helps.
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Ludmila Shumilov

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I didn't know that. I thought it was a recent thing. Thanks for letting me know. However I see lots of faulty voting around. Contests are a good place to observe this.
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Kenneth Everett

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Jasenka, can you elaborate on the rules / logic behind this duel ban algorithm?
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Kenneth, you can see more about it here: http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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Kenneth Everett

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Hmm, that link simply brings me back to this post.
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John Larson

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Ludmila, I can show you hundreds of images I lost to that were out of focus inferior images, and I doubt very seriously if the duel ban algorithm ever picked any of them up as "suspicious voting pattern." The algorithm functions when it thinks you are voting too fast and you don't have the ability to instantly decide which is the better image, or if you vote consistently for the image on the right or left. In terms of voters voting for quality images over mediocre or poor images, it seems pretty useless, and they allow these biased voters to get away with it time and time again.
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Ludmila Shumilov

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John, I suppose it would be pretty difficult to come up with a programme to detect acts of human cunning. As for voting left or right, it so happens many times that the better image comes on the left/right 7 or 8 times in a row. I hope the biased voters will be detected in the end. And those who just press any button in a duel too.
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John Larson

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Just had 13 consecutive losses on an image...wow!
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DVA

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You are not alone John, happened to me too, and usually when an image reaches very high score (above 720 mark). At that point losing many times in a row is definitely very suspicious. Unfortunately, I don't think Pixoto can really do anything about this technically-wise - no algorithm can read what's on the mind of those who are voting.
Maybe if Pixoto comes up with some sort of user rankings based on the number of images in your account and their scores and only allow people with high ratings and proven voting record vote on high scoring images... but I am sure this approach wouldn't be fair to some users who might not have as many images in their accounts and do not have very high-scoring photos but yet who are always fair in their votes.
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Kenneth Everett

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Dmitriy and John, this is one point I must concede to Pixoto. Once an image has a high score it's entirely conceivable it will lose several duels in a row. Pixoto is typically going to put an image with a mid range score (600-675) up against older images with scores over 700 to see if the newer image warrants graduating to the 700 club. Did any of the images which beat the one with 720+ have a score < 600?
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Joyce Andersen

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agree Kenneth.. but I take offence to the category of Nature up close with the high ranking blue flowers that are still there from 2011 2013. they are not even in this category anymore but they still hold all the high point places and only serve to drop the scores, because very few people seem to even look at the category being duelled. and pretty, bright coloured flowers will win over every other shot 9/10 times. It is a cold hard fact.
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Ken Goh

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Some images is the other way round, they can climb very fast to 600+ and several hrs b4 end of the day they hit >700 and that's not the end, these images continue to win even after daily awards announced, they can win several in a row and eventually reached mid to high 700's and again this photographer won CA$H awards for weekly and monthly. Just don't understand the same repeated similar images can keep on winning for weeks, months and years, people just don't get sick of the same similar images???!!!

I do have some fireworks (shot at different locations, different buildings and background) >700 score last month but this month they got paused very quickly and even after several re-submissions I can only get 600+ score, unlike those images they can continue for weeks and months getting high 700's. How is this possible? He got many friends to vote for him or downvote others?
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Renos Hadjikyriacou

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" ..... this photographer won CA$H awards for weekly and monthly. .... "

I dont think that there are any cash awards given to monthly winners, cant find anything in the contest rules about monthly cash prices ..... ?
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Ken Goh

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I see as I read someone mentioned before so I thought there is...
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Susan Hogan

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Pixoto seems to have no interest in policing strategic voters and the "voting clubs" that are formed here. It is all too telling when one can submit an image in the morning and have it lose ten duels in a row against crappy images and/or be paused repeatedly, and submit that very same image in the afternoon and have it excel. One needs only look at the leader boards to see countless examples of inferior images getting scores in excess of 700, which quite plainly do not belong there. There is no possible way that the majority of voters *truly* find an out of focus, poorly composed image to be superior to the many excellent submissions here. A few here and there, yes. ALL of them? Not likely.
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Ludmila Shumilov

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Very good point, Susan. I had no idea about the voting clubs but it sounds plausible. A very disappointing aspect. Hopefully somebody will invest a little time and detect those who make a mockery of the voting.
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John Larson

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I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen, Ludmila.
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Susan Hogan

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Right, John. It hasn't happened yet...
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Susan Hogan

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A very simple method of helping to eliminate this problem would be to reveal each person's vote on their account page as a "voting history" as well as on the image they are voting for. If someone votes on an image honestly, there should be no reason to hide their choice. It would hold individuals accountable for their voting decisions, so when they are randomly voting or strategically voting, everyone would be able to see that for what it is. The current anonymity allows individuals the freedom to vote down superior competitive images as well as voting just to obtain credits. JMO
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Ludmila Shumilov

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A very good idea.
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Artturi Mäntysaari

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+1 for voting history. I think it would be very easy to spot trolling if we could see everyone's history.

I created account yesterday, but for start i get very disappointed about the site when I found out that my pictures lost frequently against very bad images. Images that are out of focus, shaken / blurry or very bad composition or everything mentioned previously.

So I think it's very clear that somebody is trying to manipulate this system.
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Kenneth Everett

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Aftturi, in some cases it might be someone trying to tilt the results in a particular direction. But it's just as likely many voters don't apply "photographer rules" to images. Some voters might be teens who just think it's a fun past time and they vote for which ever image is more entertaining. Other voters might have a political nature and always favor images which favor their political senses.

Many voters don't judge analytically, they judge emotionally. Another example, I bet baby pictures win more often over those of older children regardless of the photographic merits of either image.
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Artturi Mäntysaari

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Kenneth, you might be very right with that. It's true that I check and vote pictures by looking their technical side and if I think some picture might be very hard to create, I also vote it more often. It might be very different than what other voters do.

Also I think there is people who don't vote pictures that are "best". They vote pictures that are almost what they make themself. If someone photographs only shaky pictures of yellow flowers, then he maybe votes always shaky pictures of yellow flowers, no matter what is against.

By doing that they can make sure that they have little bit more possibility to "win" or make visibility for their shaky yellow flower photos.

This is very familiar problem from 500px.com from where i came from. There is "grandma mafia" that votes bad quality pictures in hope that they get votes back.

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