On the other hand because I won't subscribe for a PRO account I have to constantly duel boost my images so that they are entered in the same number of Image Duels as those of PRO members so that they are competing on a level playing field. With images constantly being paused after ridiculously number of Image Duels this duel boosting is a real chore. I submitted 1 photo this morning and it was entered in 8 duels, won 6 and has been paused for the last 3 hours. It would take some 'Duel Boosting' to get that up to the 100 Image Duels that PRO members are promised.
This was a great site but it has been slowly but surely destroyed with the advent of PRO accounts being the final nail in the coffin. I persevere with it in the hope that it will get better but with each new iteration of the site the problems increase.
Finally because of the number of Image Duels I have to vote in to earn enough credits to duel boost my images up to the same level as PRO players I often find my self just constantly clicking on the right hand image in the duels without really looking at what I am voting for just to earn the credits I need. I know this is completely unfair to other players but I am sure I am not the only one doing it. As I said already the site has become a complete chore and if my photos weren't doing relatively ok I would be long gone.
Please try and take some of this criticism on board. When I initially joined Pixoto it was good addictive fun. That is definitely not the case now:(
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Posted 8 years ago
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Since about a week I have a Pro account which I won in the Instagram challenge. I wasn't sure if I really wanted it because honestly I have a problem with the 'hire me' button and the Pro badge (I know it just means that you have a Pro account but it gives the impression that you are a professional photograph and I'm definitely not). So the only reason to try Pro was the fact that you don't need to boost until you reach 100 duels.
Now observing the whole thing since a week I have to say that I don't feel comfortable...
Everything is slow, too slow, since days, even with a Pro account my photos get paused for a long time and when I submit my photos in the afternoon (in Germany) they reach about 50 duels until the next day. People in other parts of the world have an advantage as they can already submit their photos at midnight GMT. Yesterday my photos for the day before ended #8 and #9 but they could have been way better.
So I decided to submit already early in the morning to get more duels. Then what happens is that today I am #1, #5 and #9 in the Mobile category with far more duels than some others with also good or perhaps better photos. I feel sorry for the others and can't really enjoy winning...
I don't want to be ungrateful but I think that there is definitely something wrong here.
This is a photo contest, so when a photo is submitted, regardless of wether Pro or not or in which part of the world or time zone you live, everybody should have the same chance and the best should win.
It can't be possible that people who pay for the Pro account have better chances to win (apart of the top trending images).This is what is happening at the moment because you don't get sufficient duels for whatever reason.
Why don't you introduce a small, affordable membership fee for all of us? I know there would be many complaints, but then it would be at least a little bit more fair and hey, why should this site be free? You are offering a great site with a brilliant idea.
I just want it to be fun like it was when I started 3 months ago and also I want to be proud to win an award! :-)
Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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We've had a LOT of (google caused) performance issues over the past 7 days preventing people from voting. The number of votes per image is down for this week. They but the seem to have fixed that issue but we have had to pump votes into last week (robbing from this week) in order to make sure there are enough there. This volatility effects PROs, boosters and non-boosters alike.
PROs (and people willing to boost their images) have a slight advantage in the daily standings. But it is slight. This advantage evaporates completely in the weekly standings. Look at last week - there are 2 pro images in the top 20 in mobile (exactly the same percentage as the total number of images submitted by PROS). The same is
Mariko - little can be drawn from looking at Today's leaderboard - because you don't know when the images were submitted during the day (it could have been 10 minutes ago).
We have not changed our Pause breakpoints in over three months.
For images with an ImageScore of over 600 the average number of votes that a PRO image gets vs non-pro is is almost the same.
PRO images get a maximum of 15 additional duels in the daily contest over other non-boosted images. This could conceivably provide some benefit to PROs but also to Boosters. So to make level on a daily basis we would need to get rid of Boosts.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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We don't have enough time in the 15 hours from the time the last image is submitted to get all leading images to 100 votes. So because of this images submitted earlier in the day or are boosted are at an some advantage for daily awards.
This is a real problem that I wasn't that focused on until you pointed it out.
(note - with weekly awards this isn't a factor because all of the leading images get to - or near 100 votes).
So there are a couple of things we can do here:
1) leave it as is - give the advantage to boosters (who provide additional duels for everybody else) and PROs (who pay for the site for everybody else). It's only daily awards that are effected to I'm not sure how much this matters.
2) give images their full confidence score at 50 duels (this creates more volatility - and an image is likely to go up and then down substantially - so i'm not crazy about that
3) don't allow boosting of images until daily awards are run - this may be the best alternative
I would love to know your thoughts on this.
Best
Jason
PS. your images should not have been paused with that kind win/loss ratio like that. If you see that again could you email me and don't unpause it?
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http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
They have not been boosted have been entered in 44, 47 and 41 duels respectively. This works out at less that one duel an hour for each of the images over the last 2 days. The are all preforming relatively well in that the have far more wins than losses and could be far higher up the leader board if they had been entered in more duels. In previous versions of Pixoto these would all have been entered in far more image duels by now.
I am now going to boost them to see how they perform but this is becoming an increasingly frustrating experience and as I said before is sucking all of the fun out of the Pixoto experience:(
Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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We have a solution to the daily awards problem (I still contend there is not a problem in weekly awards - let me know if you disagree). We are going to give much more votes in the first day - hopefully we'll have this done next week.
Looks like they have gotten between 8 and 10 duels in the last 5 hours - so not boosting seems to be working...
Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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https://www.facebook.com/pixoto/posts...
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Jasenka, Official Rep
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I hope this helps.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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Here is what was said a few posts back by Jason,
"PRO images get a maximum of 15 additional duels in the daily contest over other non-boosted images. This could conceivably provide some benefit to PROs but also to Boosters. So to make level on a daily basis we would need to get rid of Boosts."
At this point in time with pixoto, most that I have talked to are unhappy with the turn that has taken place, likely due to the fact that they joined for the same reason we did, -it was unbiased and very fair. Recently though, the mood at pixoto has turned from unbiased to 'profit'. Not only ads (which are not a problem), but also the 'Pro' advantage, and other minor changes, which we all feel unfortunately more than the ones that make the changes.
So, all in all, I would suggest that the Duels be removed, period. Also, for a better balance, reducing the votes a Pro gets to half -still a advantage- but not enough that it unbalances the overall polls. Personally I would prefer to know if my images are good enough to stand on their own two feet, without the lurking thought that if I boost enough, or become Pro, I would do better.
Mariko, we are sure happy you won, but your sentence you wrote makes you a even bigger winner in my book.
-"I feel sorry for the others and can't really enjoy winning...
I don't want to be ungrateful but I think that there is definitely something wrong here.
This is a photo contest, so when a photo is submitted, regardless of wether Pro or not or in which part of the world or time zone you live, everybody should have the same chance and the best should win. " I agree with you totally, thank you.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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I submitted this pic 2 days ago and saw it very quickly get to 50 image duels with 32 wins and it hasn't moved in ages. I had one pic last week break the magic 100 image duel ceiling but that was after incessant duel boosting. Not fun.
Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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Your images that are scoring in the high 600s from last week will make it to 100 votes before weekly awards are assigned. That said I would bet, based on changes that we made to our scoring system as a result of your our feedback, their scores won't change all that much.
But let's keep record:
This image is currently at IS 690 with ID 74 : http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
This is at IS 619 with ID 69 : http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
Let's check where those images end up on Thursday morning.
Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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I also noticed that yesterday you had #2,#3 and #4 in the mobile category with the number of votes closing in on 100. Congrats. I think daily awards are definitely working better - if I do say so myself.
I want to thank you for pushing us on this issue instead of just walking. It was the fact that you were so fired up about it that caused us to take a close look at it and resolve the issue. Thanks!
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep
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The way you vote is not a solution. If you want fairness you have to be fair with the other ones as well. You hurt in your feelings, which I can understand, I'm also frustated many times. But have other people hurt like you doesn't make it better. To buy more votes you need 5 credits and to boost 10 credits. This is not a lot. If you take your time to earn 10 credits it will take you maybe less than 5 minutes. You don't need to spend hours playing the duels if you don't have the time. 10-15 minutes a few times a day is enough and then then when you really have time, you could play 100-200 duels. but please, have a look at the pictures. When I look at the duel history, I feel many people do it this way. This makes the all things worse. And I don't think that when a picture get paused that is punishment for not buying a pro account. Maybe it's because they are not so good as the top ones. Or maybe it's because somebody voted the way you do it. Don't forget that the pro accounts help pixoto to exist. The better way to get points (and this is for everybody) is to work and try to be as good as the top ones. It takes time but it works and then you will be proud of your work and of your awards, when you get one. I'm not a pro, I'm not a photographer only a crazy amateur. I take pics every day (almost). I tell you I take maybe 200 pics and keep max. 10-20 of them. Watch at other people work and try do do the same. With patience you will achieve it. Please be fair and look at the pictures before voting
P.S.: dc, please, don't start to do the same. It's not the solution
I wish you a nice day and good luck and happy shooting
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Besides that, voting is very slow most of the times and by the time you get your 100 votes (usually after three or four days) there is not much to gain in launching a duel boost which can bring the score even more down.
I certainly don't feel advantaged since the PRO upgrade, as a matter of fact if I could turn back time I would have left things as they were...
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This site is a new concept. No other site I know has Image duel capability. As the site says it is still in beta. There will always be bugs and issues in the beta stage of any program. It is only with patience and feedback from us that it will grow into a great site. I pay for a pro account because I want to see this site grow. Any issues I have had Jason or his team has addressed and is usually resolved. Some issues will take a while to fix but I guess many people do not want to wait. This is the age of immediate gratification and no one wants to wait for anything. :) There used to be a saying, "the best things in life are worth waiting for" I still find this to be true. But to each there own i guess.
This is just my opinion and I am in no way trying to start any bad feelings. I am hoping I am helping rather than adding to the problems.
Be well and have a great day...
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Where I usually spend my points is unpausing images, and I do find myself doing this more and more often, and usually with images that end up in the mid 500 score range!!
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This is how I'm judging it at the moment. The ability to pay for more votes seems hypocritical, and totally not in line with the Pixoto philosophy. But then I am new. Maybe I'm just taking things at face value, and you have what's going on worked out a lot more cleverly than how I see it on the surface. I don't know. But if this is what's going on, Pixoto, please fix it. Make the site more ghetto. Give us more ads. But please, keep it fair. I'm tired of being slightly disadvantaged in so many areas of life.
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DC
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I also sincerely don't understand the claim of anonymity in voting, when anyone can know whose photos are whose in a very short amount of time (especially in your own categories - for me this is primarily cats and dogs - the same animals appear time and again and once you know them, there is NO anonymity and one must rely on integrity instead). But if you're checking leaderboards, which I presume most people do, every single image lists the photog. And IMHO, people often DO know who they are voting for, as evidence by the "last minute" rocketing upward of some images' scores at the end of the week. I don't think that "voting up" on certain images could be accidental or coincidental... I don't have a pro account, so I have no idea who is voting on my images, but could speculate that its not quite as "unbiased" as one might think on every occasion and I am sure many people might have that complaint. Personally, I try to avoid voting my own category at this point, even though I think I am unbiased...
Finally, why does this site not accept paypal for payments, when they pay out using paypal? I might be inspired to try a month and make the comparison if that was available.
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So spend time voting and reporting. It can only get better.
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