Pixoto Doesn't Seem to Work Anymore for None-Pros

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Does Pixoto only work for pros now? I'm getting that feeling :-( The site no longer seems to be giving free members a fair chance with image duels.
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jenny4

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Posted 7 years ago

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Ian Martyn

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I agree - no duels so I boosted and went to bed - 8 hours later still no duels had taken place.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Ian, can you please link the photo/photos for which you are not getting any duels?
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Ian Martyn

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After the awards they got some duels - this is happening all the time even though I upload in plenty of time for the daily awards. This has been consistent with 90% of my uploads and my score is held back until after the awards - then they start to climb into the high 600's with some entering the seven hundred club. Totally fed up with the situation as I have to boost and boost to get duels and even using boost can take over 8 hours to get one duel.
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Ian Martyn

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If I am boosting and winning votes people must like my image otherwise it would fail - but the fact is they have continued to rise AFTER the awards. The trending you mention is total rubbish as I can see other users with the same stats as my images getting more frequent duels. The site is biased as far as I am concerned towards PRO's and people allowing their images to be sold.
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Ian Martyn

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Another Issue which is confusing me:-
When I use the voting screen I get 2 images displayed from the same sub category. For example - digital art, wedding, portraits of women etc.

I upload my images to "Portraits of Women" but the history shows my image lost against a man or a Man Fishing. How can this happen!!!!!!!

I have never seen or been given the option to vote between a man and a woman, a woman and a man fishing or smoking or what ever - they have always been from the same sub category., but my own images seem to get a constant stream of other sub categories. One of my images is being voted down by 5 similar images of a man fishing from the same photog which I thought was against the rules but you ignore this!!!!!

I have looked at other users histories who are uploading to "Portraits of Woman" and I have not managed to find any who had their image of a woman compared to a completely different category.
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Ian Martyn

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And why are my images being compared to images from 2012 - surely after the year awards they should be removed from the voting process!!!!!
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Nikola Vlahov

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All images are open to the process of voting, only the older ones less likely.
You can also boost your older images.
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Nikola Vlahov

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Awards, even those of the year, will not stop further image duels.
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Ian Martyn

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Thats if you can actually get enough duels in the first place. The old photos are just an observation and if they have won the max awards why would you boost them!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ian Martyn

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You are missing the point Nikova - these old images have won all the awards so why boost them - there is no reward !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ian Martyn

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The man fishing has just struck again but I won this time. I expect I will get the other 4 similar images come my way yet again - Crazy voting system !
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Dueling is sometimes within sub-category and sometimes within whole category. If you look at the top of your screen you will notice there is a line: "Select the better image in .....". I have just clicked voting and this is what it said :"Select the better image in Products & Objects". That means that 2 photos in the whole Products & Objects category were compared regardless of which subcategory they are. If it was for instance in that line "Select the better image in Products & Objects > Business objects" that would mean that only 2 photos from Business objects within Products & Objects category were compared.
But there is no dueling across categories. It can happen sometimes that for instance portrait of a woman photo is dueled with landscape photo but is only in the case one or the other photo is entered in wrong category (landscape into people category or portrait into landscape category) and in such cases you should report wrongly categorized photo.
If people boost their older photos they will end up in voting. The reason could probably be that they want their photo more up the leader board for that year.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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I'm sorry you feel that way Jenny.
When I look at leader board I see both pro and non-pro users on top, so I would say that every user (regardless if it has pro status or not) has fair opportunity to rise to the top of leader boards.
Can you please explain more what the problem seems to be?
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jenny4

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Hi jasenka, thanks for your reply.

I have an image currently in the daily challenge in the digital art category. It's had 23 wins, 15 losses, 38 duels, has 517 points and is in 17th place. Another image in the same category from a pro user has had 43 wins, 28 losses, 71 duels, has 617 points and is in 3rd place.

With these statistics in mind, I'd be very interested to see where my image would place on the leader board at the end of today's challenge if I were to get the same amount of duels. My image just seems to have ground to a halt so it's unlikely I will get the chance to see.

Another issue similar to the one Martin raised, is that my wildlife composites often duel against architecture images. Obviously people who prefer architecture to animal pictures will vote for architecture, and vice versa. Sometimes my images duel against architecture one after another and if you're unfortunate enough for the voter to be one who prefers architecture, your image will lose. The only way to prevent this is to have an animal sub category in the digital art category. I can only ever put my images in the places sub category, but images are of animals, not places! There are loads of animal images in the digital art category, and they need their own sub category to make the image duels fair.

Interested to hear your feedback Jasenka. I'm getting to the point where I'm hesitating to upload my work as it's getting a bit frustrating. :-(
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Ian Martyn

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Bravo - At last someone else is seeing what I am seeing and I feel exactly the same about bothering to upload. It is frustrating to watch your work suffer. One of my images was winning all votes against the top row on the leader board but I had to keep boosting. I had to stay on-line and boost over and over again and eventually won the 1# of the day. Its clear something is drastically wrong. Most of the time boosting returns a stream of images from other sub categories which cripple my score but when I vote I never see this mixture of images - it is always images from the same categories. You are right Jenny4 - if you see 2 images of different genre you are going to pick what you like best and totally ignore the quality of the image. If I upload into a sub category I expect to be judged in that sub category.My history shows my portrait of a woman is being judged against a man or a bus load of kids hanging to the roof. When I vote I never see images from 2 different categories so how does this happen!!!!!!!
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Ian Martyn

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Yes mine reach over 100 duels but this always happens after the day awards or maybe a day later. " hours leading upto the day awards 90% of my images don't see a duel - its like they are frozen in time but once the awards are given I immediately start getting duels. This is not a one of - this is every image I upload grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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jenny4

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I wonder if there just isn't enough images within certain categories to duel against. I know the images in the digital art category has vastly diminished over the last year or so, to the point where there often isn't enough entries to win the weekly cash prize. I think this has killed the digital art category. I got #1 in the weekly competition a couple of months ago and didn't win a penny :-( Anyway, that's not the issue here, but as I said before, it could be that some images are being forced to duel against unsuitable images because there isn't enough images to duel against in their own categories.
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jenny4

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PS - Your work is faaabulous, Ian!
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Ian Martyn

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The boudoir/nude category is very small but manages to function reasonably well, The wedding sections is good also but quite small. I don't think it should really matter how many images are available in each category - the point is which image is the best of the Day, Week, Month etc. in a given category. If all our hard work is going to be judges against anything and every thing it might as well be one category to vote for the BEST PHOTO rather than a given subject. Actually it feels that way already.

The Image duel problem is not effecting everyone because I have been watching several users and how often they get duels. When I mention this I am told its because they are trending but how can you "trend" if you are not getting duels?

The site has a large asian community who sell their images and that added to the pro user perks adds up to pixoto making profit. Lots have complained pixoto has changed and is now focusing on profit. I can't comment on that because I am a new user but it s clear pro users and users who allow their images to be sold can do what they want including uploading very similar images all at the same time and win lots of awards.

Look here - 5 shots of a guy using a fishing net by the same photog all similar which is against the rules. But reporting this breach is ignored.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

My images are constantly judged against these 5 shots and mine is a portrait of a woman !!!
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jenny4

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Ok, now there's a bit of movement, and the duel boost button has appeared again. I've boosted but with less than an hour to go, and taking into account the slowness of the duels, I doubt my image will climb much further. Will post results at the end :-)
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Ian Martyn

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I boosted and went to bed yesterday - 8 hours later I logged in and it was still showing 5 boost, After 9 hours I cancelled the boost and re-boosted only to get one duel hehehe
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Ian Martyn

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Thanks for the compliment Jenny4 - But it does not feel that way to me. I have deleted many images prior to the awards because I was disgusted with my score because of the lack of duels. I was not prepared to receive a low award for an image which took up to 3 day to retouch.
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jenny4

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I hear you Martin. I've been a Pixoto user for quite some time, and the duelling system used to work just fine. But since the pro accounts have come along, with guaranteed duels, etc., I can't see how things can be fair anymore for non-pros. I mean the whole point of offering these benefits is to encourage people to sign up for pro membership so if it didn't make a difference, there would be no point!
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jenny4

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Those images (especially two of them that are almost identical) shouldn't be allowed. Don't get me started on rule breaking, especially images in the wrong category!!!!!!! Drives me insane.
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Ian Martyn

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Yes you are right - They say the extra duel boosts for PRO's makes no difference and balances out - I must be totally stupid because I don't understand how this could possibly be fair heheheh

I can't seem to see your page Jenny4 - can you give me your link
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Ian Martyn

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hahahah I thought I could just upload some images and everything would work - there is so much cheating on this site it is crazy. My very first image went to the top line on the leader board (7) as it started to move towards the number #1 someone complained it was in the wrong category and it was moved but I did get #4 for the day and it was taken away. I did not think it was in the wrong category because when I looked before uploading there were several images similar to mine. So I lost and the PRO's were allowed to win.

Another interesting fact was one of my images was at #1 just as the awards were given. I refreshed the page at 3pm GMT and my image moved to #2, I refreshed again immediately and it was back at #1. The pro user who was at number 2 got the #1 award - That is so obviously unfair because no duels could have taken place at that precise time!!!!!!!!
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Ian Martyn

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Love you work Jennifer - amazing
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jenny4

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It's a real shame, Ian but all the changes seem to have undermined the concept of Pixoto. The daily duels always end at 1pm for some reason... i'm in the UK so a time difference?

I've often deleted images that haven't done well and even re-edited them, thinking maybe they are too dark, too pale, not sharp enough, etc., to then resubmit them and face the same appalling response. I might resubmit a couple of times before they take off. This is where they've usually lost to architecture or images of a completely different subject matter. It really is pot luck as to the taste of who is voting at any given time.
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jenny4

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And thanks for the compliments about my work! :-)
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jenny4

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So there we have it. with only 3 more duels in 3 hours, I finish in 17th place. :-(

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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Ian Martyn

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You are right Jennifer and experiencing the same as me. My loses are mostly due to completely different subject matter and it always comes in a stream of 4-5 images causing my score to go down. I am also in the UK and I also don't get any duels in the hours leading up to the awards. Just noticed pixoto used one of my images to promote a challenge - the comments I had from that image from other photogs was it should have reached the high 700's but it got stuck like all my other images and then voted down by the cheats and the other subject matter. So mu=y image was good enough to promote a challenge but not good enough to give me the duels hehehee - insult to injury grrrrrrrr
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Ian Martyn

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You should not be 17th from what I can see. There are maybe 2 or 3 reasonable images above you - as for the rest I am amazed they are so high. Its an unfair playing field and I think I will close my account after my images have run there course.
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jenny4

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Here's an interesting quote from Justin Kifer taken from this thread:
http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...

"More duels = more accurate ImageScores so cutting off duels simply creates more inaccuracy in the system. I'll need to noodle on it..."

So what Justin is saying is without enough duels, you won't have a true image score. How on earth can the daily competitions be fair then given the slowness of the duelling process. The only fair solution here is to scrap the daily awards.
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jenny4

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Thanks for the vote of confidence :-) I'd hang on a bit to see what can be done before closing your account, Ian. I do hope Pixoto take these issues seriously now it's been brought to your attention. Many people do just leave when they get fed up without saying anything... as I mentioned before, the digital art category has shrunk considerably... that either means people have left or have stop posting for a reason.
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jenny4

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*their attention (not your)
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Ian Martyn

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He actually told me the daily awards don't really mean anything so you are right - why bother!! I only started using pixoto because I was amazed at all the awards being posted in facebook "My Image Just Won blah blah blah" but when I looked at the image it was an over processed model that resembled a plastic doll with glow in the dark eyes. After 6 months of seeing all these bad shots I thought I would take a look. There are a large number of people who think they can improve the chance of winning by voting down the good images. By doing this it forces the bad images to rise on the leader board and hey presto they win an award. Justin told me this was true but their software should identify these people and void the bad vote - it clearly does not work. When my images go straight to the top they are attacked by these people, Then you have the slow duel problem and the different subject matter in the voting process. I can see no reason to use pixoto for serious work - just for holiday snaps.
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Ian Martyn

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I started uploading 1 bad image and one good image to test this and sure enough my bad images got higher scores - I repeated this several times and they are in my account for anyone to see. priceless :)
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Jenny, thank you for detail insight.

Is this the photo you are asking about?

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

You still have 3,5 hours left until the awards are assigned for yesterdays photos, and the voting is still in progress, so you have possibility to climb the leader board more.

When I take a look at leaderboard for digital art for yesterday

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

in first 16 places I see only one photo from pro user, so I would say that both pro and non-pro users have fair chance of being in top of the leader board.
And from my experience, I've had more first daily place awards when I wasn't pro user then now that I am.

Regarding boosting, when you click boost there is notification that you are guaranteed 5 votes during 24 hours. Sometimes these 5 votes land quickly, sometimes it takes them whole 24 hour window.

Photos are compared within category as a whole, not just within category. Digital art category (if I'm getting this right you post mostly within Digital art) has mixed subjects within itself. Since awards are assigned on category bases, not on sub-category, image from one sub-category will be dueled with image from another sub-category (but within Digital art category). So it is normal if your composition of wildlife is dueled with compositions that is in digital art abstract or digital art people.

If I didn't cover something you are concerned about, please let me know.
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jenny4

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Thanks for getting back to me, Jasenka.

I can only go on my experience of being a Pixoto user for over a year and a half. There was never usually an issue with not having enough duels to get a decent place on the daily leader board. You could even submit an image late in the day and still get enough duels... you wouldn't stand a chance now!

I came to the conclusion it must be something to do with the pro membership being introduced/changes to the algorithm to allow certain benefits to pro users. Out of interest, has the algorithm changed since the early days of Pixoto. I would expect tweaks must have been made, but were there any changes when pro membership was launched?

As I'm sure you're aware, the subject matter included in Digital is vast. Is it really fair to compare say a digital artwork of an elephant with a church? Unless of course Pixoto is designed mainly to be customer friendly, rather than member friendly? Obviously the categories would make it easier for customers to find certain images, etc. However if this is the case, this should be made clear to all members. As should the way the duelling system works, and the fact that the daily leader board does not give images true and correct placements. I would like to see the daily awards scrapped unless enough duels can be given to determine the true placement of images on the daily leader board. I will certainly be switching of my auto postings on facebook and twitter, as I don't want to broadcast low ranking daily awards!

I have no way of knowing if there is anything untoward happening during the voting process, ie; people deliberately voting against good images, etc. It's highly likely there is cheating going on on top of the duelling problems, but that's something only Pixoto have any control over.

Finally, I don't see any point in the duel boost button. It makes the duelling system unfair for the free users who don't have time to sit at the computer 24/7 manually boosting. While there are free users who don't have the advantage of auto boost, there should be no boost button at all. This will ensure all images get an equal chance of receiving enough duels.

This is a long post, but I feel an important one, as with all these issues, It seems Pixoto is losing its ethos.
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Ian Martyn

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Totally agree jenny but for me it is too late - I will be closing my account and asking that they delete all my images from their servers. Today was the last straw when they removed another image. As for facebook posting I don't have that option selected but pixoto are posting all my comments regardless.

You should read what has happened to me today further down this thread - even Pat can't believe what they have done hehehe well you got to laugh. Obviously I am the bad boy and they are in payback mode :)
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jenny4

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Ian, I just read about it (and catching up on the rest)... what's happening here??
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John L Herlo

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I am definitely considering deleting my account and all my pictures as well.
It seems Pixoto is pushing more for some and less for others.
Make it a paying customers only and let us get the heck out of your hair if that's what you want!!!
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Joyce Andersen

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I noticed that from the day I started, in July... have to boost if I want more than an average of 25 to 35 duels. thought that was just normal, and my photos are crap according to the first 10 duels....although if I do boost I can get into the 600's occasionally. If I was a better photographer maybe I would be doing better, or if I had a whole club of voters that can recognise my work lol, but most of my images are pretty varied :)
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Ian Martyn

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The fact you got to the 600's proves your work is not bad - it proves people like it but were not given the opportunity to see it because of lack of duels. Boosting does not give you an advantage - if your work sucks people would not vote for it no matter how many times you boosted :)
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Pat Hartley

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I am not a Pro account user and all but one of my shots have duelled over 100. The one that hasn't is a new upload.
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Ian Martyn

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how long did it take to reach 100?
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Pat Hartley

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a week maybe two.
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Ian Martyn

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I love your work - amazing shots Pat. I am talking about gaining enough point for the day awards. Low duel count equals low score which is what I am suffering at the moment. It is certainly not my work. You are in a different category so you might not be suffering like me. The people category is too big and I upload mainly to "Portraits of Women"

One of my images was winning all votes against the top row on the leader board but I had to keep boosting. I had to stay on-line and boost over and over again and eventually won the 1# of the day. Its clear something is drastically wrong. Most of the time boosting returns a stream of images from other sub categories which cripple my score but when I vote I never see this mixture of images - it is always images from the same categories. If you see 2 images of different genre you are going to pick what you like best and totally ignore the quality of the image. If I upload into a sub category I expect to be judged in that sub category.My history shows my portrait of a woman is being judged against a man or a bus load of kids hanging to the roof. When I vote I never see images from 2 different categories so how does this happen!!!!!!!
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jenny4

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Hi Pat, my issue is the daily challenges...there isn't a hope of getting a decent placement without having enough duels. It just didn't seem to be a problem in the earlier days of Pixoto. The duels seemed to happen much more often as long as the amount of wins were higher than the losses.
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Lissa Apples

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I have a pro account and it doesn't mean you are guaranteed a certain number of duels in a day; it just means you don't have to boost for the first 100 duels to get the duels. Just the same as when I had a free account, my higher scoring images duel more than my lower scoring images, and sometimes I only have maybe 30 duels before the day awards are awarded.
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Lissa Apples

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It also depends on the time of day and the day of the week. Images seem to duel much faster on the weekends.
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Ian Martyn

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You have just admitted to having an advantage!!11
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Martin Dunaway

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Ian,Jenny if you truly believe that the pro account has an advantage sign up for the free trial and see if there is a difference! I really dont think there is but for free it might be worth trying. I would think 3 days would be enough. let us know your findings if you do!!
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Ian Martyn

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Martin - we are not the only two people experiencing problems. The fact that we can actually see other people receiving duels more frequently is enough - plus we have the added problem of being judged against completely different subject matter. I have even written some software to monitor my account and 8 others. I have stored a lot of images that were used against mine which is a mystery to me because I have never seen or been presented two different sub-category images while in the voting screen!!!!! Do you think waiting over 9 hours for a duel is correct!!!!!!!!
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Ian Martyn

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A pro user just admitted they are given more duels for the first 100 !!!!!!!!!!
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Lissa Apples

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How is that admitting an advantage? Yes, I do believe it's an advantage not to have to sit in front of the computer and boost all day long, but then again, that's kind of the benefit of paying for a pro account.

My business partner who does NOT have a pro account uploaded an image in just the last few hours and his image already has 25 duels. I think I'm kind of missing your point...
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Lissa Apples

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And to add to that...he's been out on a shoot since he uploaded it, so I know he has not been boosting.
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Ian Martyn

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25 is normal but for us it stops after that. I am glad it is working for you but it is not the case for everyone - OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!!
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Ian Martyn

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Lots are seeing a decline in duels - You should not be using the boost button to get duels until after you have reached the cut off point. We should not be sat in front of a computer all day clicking boost just to get some duels. I waited over 9 hours yesterday and that was with a boost and still did not get a duel until I cancelled the boost and boosted again only to get one duel!!!!!!!!

So please don't think just because things are working for you they must be working for others :)
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jenny4

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I already did, Martin and yes, it did make a difference! This could be however, that your duel boosts are automatic on the pro account so you don't have to keep boosting it yourself. It's very annoying to leave your image "duelling" overnight to find it's not budged anywhere on the leader board the next day. With the pro account, you don't have this problem, so unless you sit at your laptop for 24 hours boosting away, your image will duel faster with the pro account.
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Ian Martyn

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Its clearly not fair
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Ian Martyn

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I proved myself years ago before I turned professional and stopped uploading to sites like this - plus I have clients to look after so sitting in front of the PC boosting is not a possibility. I came, I looked, I tried and I am not impressed. If it worked I would use it for fun but it is clearly broken.
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jenny4

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My fave site was 500px, and then I found Pixoto and loved it too... it USED to be fair!!
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Ian Martyn

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I would go back Jennifer because your work is too good to be wasted here?
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jenny4

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I'm a regular uploader to 500px... after I've finished a new work, I upload to 500px and Pixoto... it's interesting to see the difference in how well my images do on there compared to here, it's one of the things that alerted me to the problems here. For example, my latest elephant work (the one we've been talking about here) almost got onto page one of the "popular" page on 500px. The two sites are quite similar in terms of people voting for your image. There is no duelling system however, you just upload it and people vote/comment. If you get enough votes, your image can get onto page one of the popular page where you get tons of exposure. It's not easy to get on there though, what I'd consider my best images all have, and my latest elephant image (the one we've been talking about on this thread) almost got on it!

If you haven't been put off online photography sites entirely, you should try it... your images are sure to do well on there! Interestingly, 500px had a similar problem as it used to have a "I dislike this image button" as well as a voting button which brought huge problems as people were abusing it and diliberately voting images down to give them a better chance of getting onto the popular pages (myself and many other members had been on the receiving end of this)... members complained about this however, and 500px listened... now the button is gone and the site is all the more fairer for it.
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Ian Martyn

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Thanks for the info - I used to use "Worth a 1000" because my mentor used it before she became one of the most respected micro retoucher's. I started using pixoto because I was curious how so many awards were being given to very poor images (Portraits of Women) - it seemed every day in facebook someone was winning an award.

I just had to take a look and test it for myself hehehehe

Don't think it would be polite to say what I really think about this site here, but it does have the possibility to be very good if the problems were sorted out. And there are plenty of problems!!

I am under contract to several clients so it would be hard for me to spend a lot of time producing work to upload - but when I have some spare time I would like to try for fun. Don't think it would be here because if you upload a nice sharp image it is classed as digital art hehehe
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Ian Martyn

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I have uploaded to digital art - just some old images I did a long time ago just to see what happens. I must say the standards are generally high and I did not expect to get into the 600's for an image of low quality and 5 years old. One completely failed and another got a low award. But these were done a long time ago and I would not expect them to win anything really.
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Pat Hartley

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Well I have just looked at your portfolio Ian, and yours Jenny, and both have just blown out of the water any reasons I could give for not only lack of duels but also lack of score overall.

And after reading all this thread it is becoming very clear that there is in my opinion some serious issues.

I thank you for the compliment Ian but looking at your work - why you are not top of the leader board is way beyond me.

I think you and Jenny are it seems a prime example that something is not right.
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jenny4

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Thank you, Peter! I think many people just accept things for the way they are, but when you've observed changes over time, it's hard to ignore. The duelling system just isn't working for what it seemed to be designed for in the beginning...

" Submitted images are matched against each other in the ImageDuel system and voted on by other community members. The winners advance on the Image Leaderboards and vie for the coveted top spot. By surfacing the best images to the top of the Leaderboard, Pixoto hopes to be the place to find the highest-quality photographs in any given subject."

Quoted from "About Pixoto".

How long have you been a member, Peter?
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Ian and Jenny, can you please post links to photos you feel should have higher duel counts so we can take a look if anything out of order is happening with them.
Thank you.
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Ian Martyn

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I would still like to know why I never see images from two different sub categories when I vote.



This is just some of the images dueled against my Portrait of a Woman.

I have taken the trouble to also show you the 5 shots of the man fishing which are presently all winning awards for the same photog when they are clearly very much the same.

I would be interested to know if anyone is seeing images from two different sub categories appearing on the voting screen. I have never been presented with this and I have voted 1000's of times. But my image history clearly shows a lot of these images. I spent some time last night looking at the history of all the top images on the leader board for portraits of women, I did not find any miss-matched history entries until I got down into the 500's where I found a couple of portraits of men that won against the portrait of a woman. Very suspicious because I would have expected to see more especially in the higher scoring images!!!!!
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Pat Hartley

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I do not remember voting against both genders in the same voting panel but just now did some voting and men were against men and women against women for what its worth.

In other categories I see plenty with sub category shots going against each other.

Just a thought on the duels - if a group wanted to target a shot they would not have to vote against it but skip every time it appears - maybe data should look at this as well as voting patterns.

It may be a reason why some folk experience low duel numbers?????
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Ian Martyn

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What they do Pat is always vote for the other image on the voting screen - I actually collected a lot of images that won against mine. There were images better than mine so the vote was fair but if my images remain stuck with no duels on the leader board it seems to be targeted and the images that win against me are things like "a blurry under exposed human eyeball ".

I have found that if I upload when the USA and Europe are online I get a fair vote and my images progress as long as I get the duels. But 5 hours later it is shot down when other countries come on line (one in particular). Thats why I tried uploading one bad image and one good image to see what happens and the bad images end up replacing my high quality high scoring images. you can clearly see people voting for the bad images and that in turn pushes them up the leader board where they win awards.

The bad voting and the constant stream of other sub category images being judged against you increases your loses and slows down the duels. I tried to submit a high quality image but the first 4 votes were from different categories so it paused immediately which is what Jenny is also experiencing with her images. It took 4 attempts to submit the image and get past the stream of images from other categories - then it started to rise quite fast until the attacks started when it hit the high 600's.
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Ian Martyn

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They have just removed one of my images as we speak with no explanation of why it is in the wrong category - The image has won awards and been there for weeks - it is not any different than some of the other images.

Dear Ian Martyn,

The image below has been reported as being in the wrong category. We took a look and agree so we have taken the liberty of recategorizing it for you.

You can find descriptions of all of our categories at http://blog.pixoto.com/category-descr...
View recategorized image: http://www.pixoto.com/images/64126558...

We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Sincerely,

John Ian
Pixoto Report Images Team
report@pixoto.com
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Ian Martyn

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They say it is digital ART - are they joking. I am a micro re-toucher so I work on high detail. May be vogue and the other magazines I have worked for should reclass all my work hehehe - pixoto idiots -This site sucks.
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Ian Martyn

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Seems I have hit a nerve and highlighted the flaws so pixoto are now attacking me - Picked an image that was due for the week award - should be ashamed of yourselves - sooooooo sad.
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Pat Hartley

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how the hell is that digital art - if you had put it in digital art I would have expected them to move it - THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD.
fabulous shot by the way.
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Ian Martyn

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it was a hasselblad hd3 camera so the detail is extremely high - maybe they only like the lower class camera shots to be uploaded. Yes it did have a small amount of retouching but in general that is exactly what the raw file looks like - just some levels and curves adjustments really. It has been on the leader board for over 7 days and someone though if it was removed they would gain a better award I expect
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Ian Martyn

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They might as well delete this one also - same camera
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

and this one

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

idiots
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Ian Martyn

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They even used this shot

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

to promote one of the challenges - same camera hehehehe

PRICELESS
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Ian Martyn

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They should have asked me before using one of my images to promote one of their challenges - think they are extremely rude not to ask.
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Pat Hartley

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well lets face it Ian you have nothing to prove here on Pixoto and it must be clear to all who see this work you are top of your game - and technically proficient.
But it does show there is something greatly amiss that you are not top on the leader board.
I hope someone from Pixoto comes to this thread and investigates fully.
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jenny4

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I'm sorry to hear about this, Ian... had Pixoto contacted you first before removing your image, you would have been given a chance to explain about the camera you use. When there are soooo many obviously miscategorised images on Pixoto that hang around for weeks (and sometimes never removed), they were sure quick to remove yours! What is going on here?
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Ian Martyn

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They removed it while I was commenting and explaining to Pat the problems we are experiencing. They don't give you the chance to prove they are wrong - they just strip you of the awards and reset you image in a different category. It has been seen by so many people on the first upload so it will never get to the #1 again - I deleted it because it is a wasted image now. The image had a lot of good comments from some of the better photogs and they clearly did not think it was a piece of fantasy art. Maybe the minions at pixoto are programmed to follow instructions from Pro Users who clearly can do what the hell they like or they are just trying to prove a point because I have complained.
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Ian Martyn

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It was the image that I spent all day boosting and it won the #1 Day Award !!!!!
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jenny4

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Oh Martin! How annoyed you must be. So do Pixoto know now about the kind of camera you use?
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jenny4

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I mean Ian! I'm calling you by your surname and spelling it wrong in the process, sorry!! :-D
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Ian Martyn

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No they did not ask and are not interested. If they think or agree with the person who complained their word is final. Thats if someone really complained in the first place. Maybe they want me to leave because I have found so much wrong with the site and the way it operates.

How can I upload anymore images if my camera produces highly detailed shots.

The high quality shots take 4-5 days to retouch because I work at skin pore level in order to retain all the skin texture. The hair alone can take 2 days and none of what I do can possibly be classed as over processed.

All I do is remove or re-shade the skin pores to obtain near perfect skin, repair any smudged makeup, remove some fly away hairs in fact nothing that could not have been done prior to the shot but it is hard to maintain perfection in a hot studio. The blue chip clients i work for expect this level of quality for fashion and beauty products. There is no doubt that the images are better viewed at full size but this is not possible in pixoto. Quite frankly I am amazed at what has happened because if my work was that bad I would be living in a cardboard box on the side of the motorway.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Ian - it is very possible, and somewhat likely given what you say above, that one of our report team members resubmitted your image in error. Unfortunately the image doesn't seem to be there anymore so I can't know for sure. If this is the case I apologize. Your portraits in general should definitely not be in the digital art category.
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Pat Hartley

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I see so much confusion about what constitutes digital art here on the forums and indeed on other sites, yet the description on the category at Pixoto is clear -

Digital Art – This includes photo montages, fantasy scenes, constructed landscapes, artificial scenes and any photo compliation that is sureal or unreal. If it isn’t even trying to look real – put it here.

Your example clearly is not unreal or fantasy. I hope you stay and continue to show your work Ian
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Ian Martyn

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Thanks Pat - you are right and that is why I am so annoyed. but clearly there is some form of hate campaign going on here. 3 images in 7 weeks which is around around 11 days work lost for me. Their attitude is "its just an image" and they don't understand the work involved.
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Pat Hartley

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I can only look at this from a personal point of view - others I am sure look at things differently (its the way of the world) but I learn from viewing others work and I find it hard to see a great photographer leave who has evidence of this in their portfolio for all to see and yet see shots reach high scores on here that are full of noise etc. and this seems to be ok.
I really do not care if this comes over as sycophantic - I come from the north where a spade is a spade not a shovel.
I know Pixoto is a business, of-course it is and it needs to be so to continue and people do need to realise that.
Its about selling photos and having a profit - what business isn't.
But and this is a big BUT - to be successful in business they should aim to sell quality as well as quantity.
Quality comes from years of learning and honing skills and yes, good equipment.
I do not pretend to put myself in that bracket but I most certainly do put you there.
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Ian Martyn

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Thanks Pat but I don't think it is going to change anything if they confuse a highly detailed portrait of a woman as digital art. The problem is the shot from the hasselblad camera is very high res and stands out against the other users images. If you look at this image you can see the fine hairs on her face and all the skin texture because no skin smoothing has taken place.

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Ian Martyn

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When you reduce the size as I have shown above the skin texture is not so obvious but the clarity remains of all the facial features and they obviously confuse this as a digital art image.

I will be closing my account - this is really a rubbish site who discriminate against free users.
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jenny4

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Sad times - Pixoto you are losing your most talented members!
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J

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the light isn't reflecting right off her skin. The skin looks airbrushed and flat. Her eyelashes dont show proper depth. It may not have been digital art to begin with but it has been processed with a program like 365. They have issues with making skin color look too uniform thereby look fake.The real clue is that while her hair is totally in focus-her eyelashes and eyebrow hair isn't- and her ear is totally blurred out. This doesn't happen with a photograph - this became digital art.
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jenny4

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So I'm now in 5th place on the "yesterday" leader board, but my daily award is for 7th place? This is one of the confusing things about Pixoto... and another example of how the daily leader boards are giving false awards.

I don't want to advertise my image with an award of 7th place when as things currently stand, my image has now been voted up to 5th place.
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Ian Martyn

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here we go again a man won against my portrait of a woman
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Lot's of complaining in this thread but let me summarize a bit:
1) Jenny and Ian don't feel that their images get enough votes with out duels to have accurate daily awards. This could be true - we try our best to find great images as fast as we can but sometimes it takes longer. If your image takes off right away then you're like to rise in less than 24 hours - but if it's on a slower take-off you might need to wait to weeklies for an accurate award. Two possible solutions IF daily awards are important to you 1) boost images 2) go pro. As can be seen from the number of pros in the top of the daily leaderboard (i.e. about the same percentage as % of pros) - it doesn't help you win awards but it will guarantee you get get more duels.

Note: even though daily awards aren't as accurate as weeklies - we're not going to get rid of them. Most of our members love getting them.

2) Images of Men rarely paired with women - this is just the fact that there are many, many more images of women than men.

3) improperly recategorized image - I'm sorry if this happened - it doesn't happen very often but sometimes we do make mistakes.

4) there was some insinuation that Pixoto is declining and photographers are leaving. There are certainly always photographers that are leaving (this is the case with any business) and Pixoto certainly isn't for everyone. That said - recent improvements we have made at all levels have lead to unprecedented growth for us over the past 6 months and traffic/activity has doubled.

I hope this helps.
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Ian Martyn

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Item 3. Yes for me 3 mistakes in 5 weeks - surely the bells are ringing by now!!!

Item 4. If you are growing that fast we should not be suffering from the badly paired voting as there would be more images available. Also could this be why things have slowed down. Can your dueling system cope with this unprecedented growth or does it need some fine tuning!!!

I am not here complaining because I have nothing to do - I am complaining because you clearly have some issues that need investigating. I don't have time to waste uploading images that are not given a fair chance or to have them deleted or moved in error. This could be a very good site and from what I have heard it was good but now it is starting to frustrate users including myself.
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Ian Martyn

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ITEM 2. This just got paired with my latest upload - why am I getting all the MEN when you say it is rare!!!

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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jenny4

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I'm afraid I don't see any growth in the digital art category, quite the opposite, which is why I mentioned about the decline. As I mentioned before, I won the weekly competition a few months ago, and there wasn't even enough submissions to win a cash prize. The 3 cash prizes I have won, were all quite some time ago when the duelling system seemed more effective and there were a lot more submissions in this category.

I am just being honest, and sometimes that means complaining. I feel from your response, you are taking this as a personal attack on Pixoto, and while I can understand you must feel protective of it, it is important to listen to the people who help contribute to making it work. This sometimes means hearing some feedback that you'd probably rather not. I am now beginning to think that it might have been better for me to just quietly stop uploading and go on my way, but I didn't feel that would be of any help to Pixoto not know why they had lost a member. I loved Pixoto in the beginning, I thought it was one of the best sites on the web. By raising my concerns, I was hoping this might help Pixoto make improvements, but if you have a different opinion on the way things are going, and don't feel the issues raised are important, then there isn't really anywhere to go with that. I will wish you well and ask you to please close my account.

Thanks for the fun in the early days,

Jenny.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Jenny - I appreciate any and all feedback. I'm not taking it as a personal attack and I understand that you are trying to help. We are constantly trying to improve our duel system and all this feedback helps us do it.

A couple points about digital art:
- submissions are WAY up from a year ago
- this category is not however growing as fast as the rest of the site because we have found that a lot of prolific members were using components that they did not have rights to use and their accounts were deleted
- cash prizes breakpoints changed about a year ago and digital art has rarely qualified for a cash prize since then
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jenny4

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Thanks for your reply, Jason.

In your first post, it sounded rather like you are quite happy with the way the system is currently functioning, however if you are making regular improvements, I hope the issue of images duelling against different subject matters, that Ian and I feel strongly about, will be a priority.

I had not realised the minimum submissions for cash prizes had changed, that explains things. I was unable to log into Pixoto a while back due to a technical problem, so the changes must have happened during that time. Rarely having a weekly cash prize isn't much of an incentive for people, and that sounds like the reason this category isn't growing as well as others. If after a year of there regularly not being enough submissions for anyone in this category to win a cash prize, wouldn't it make more sense to lower the cash prize breakpoint and encourage more submissions?

I still say I can remember scrolling through much more daily submissions in the digital art category back then than there are today, but anyway!

Ok, I'll hang on to see what changes are made, and for now i'll switch off my Pixoto auto posts on fb so the daily awards aren't posted. I'll focus on the weekly competitions where there is hopefully enough time to get enough duels.

I'm sure there was other things I wanted to say but it's been a hectic and tiring day.
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Ian Martyn

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You are soooooooooo wrong Jason. Most of my loses are caused by images being paired from other categories - do you want me to upload them for you because I have lots!!!!!!!!!

But when I vote I never see men paired with women and I have voted 1000's of times within the 7 weeks of being a member. These images are not in the wrong categories because I checked to make sure.

What you fail to see is we are experiencing a lot of these images and sometimes up to 5 in a row and when this happens on upload my image is paused immediately. I have to keep resubmitting until I get correctly paired images and my image starts its journey. However these images of Monks, fishermen. men smoking or picking their nose keep appearing and slowing down my progress.

If you are presented with two completely different images for example - a man fishing and a portrait of a woman - you happen to like fishing so you will choose the man fishing. this is not a true reflection of the quality of work it is just the preference of the voter. But if you present 2 images of a portrait of a woman you are forcing the voter to choose what he/she thinks is the best image.

Jenny is experiencing exactly the same problem in digital art - you can't compare a building with a beautiful piece of digital art if you are into architecture then obviously you will be drawn towards the building shot.

I am posting this example again because clearly you missed it. Also notice the Man with an EYE on his hand - that image is in "portraits of men" when it is clearly digital art. I reported this 6 times and surprise surprise it is still there. Also the 5 shot of the man fishing from the same photog all winning awards when they are clearly very similar. Think you staff need some training or an incentive like a Day Award or Week Award to motivate them - sorry but I am really annoyed.

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Charlie

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That's why i created this thread, kindly follow it if it's relevant for you.

http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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Ian Martyn

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When you suffer these loses from bad pairing your dueling system starts to ignore our images. Its like playing the lottery when you upload into pixoto. If you are lucky enough to have a clear run of correctly paired images you are more likely to achieve a higher score. But if you are hit with 2 or 3 in a row from other sub categories you are screwed and the duels dry up.

Boosting should not be an option because strangely it returns more of the badly paired images which is why people are reporting high loses when they boost.
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Ian Martyn

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Yes Jason I deleted the image in question because:-

A. it was an insult to me personally.

B. It was not fair on the Digital Art users to have a high quality shot being judged against their hard work.

By the time I was notified the image had a score of 549 and we are talking about maybe 15 minutes. I thought it was grossly unfair to leave it there as an award would have been totally unfair.

I notice you do not offer to re-instate my image when it was clearly going to win a week award after winning #1 of the day awards!!!!

That image was not getting automatic duels and suffering badly paired votes. I spent the day boosting until it reached #1. It was continuously winning votes against the top two rows of images and if I had boosted more the score would have gone into the legend score - which it did on its own before a run of bad voting brought it down to the lower 700's.

The fact that image was there for over a week and got lots of comments regarding its quality from some of your top users shows it was an act of jealousy by the person who reported it as digtal art, and your staffs inability to see the compliant was un-justified.

Now this is 3 images deleted or moved in 5 weeks of using the site. All high scoring images and all with high awards. So suspicious?

As for your comment "In general my work is portraits of women" there are other images in my account that are not as high quality. There are some really over processed and low quality images I used to prove a point with the bad voting.

Uploading a pair of images (1 good and 1 bad) highlighted what happens when people vote against your image. The good quality image goes straight to the top and shortly after it is voted down. The bad images are pushed up the leader board and win awards which is exactly what happened. My bad image came is at #6 score 710 on its own without boosting. I had to keep boosting the good image and eventually managed #7.

I repeated this several times with almost exactly the same results.

The other images are old (5-6 years) digtal art which are low quality compared with what can be achieved with todays software and high performance pc's. I uploaded them for fun and to see how well they would do out of interest. Some failed and some got respectable scores which is more than I expected from low quality images.
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Ian Martyn

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This is the image your staff moved into Digital Arts Jason - large version so you can take a close look and see it could not possibly be a fantasy image.

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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Definitely should not have been re-categorized. I'm really sorry about that. It's a beautiful shot.
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Ian Martyn

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So where do we go from here - thats 3 shots moved or deleted inside 5 weeks!!!
ALL high scoring images.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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I would love to offer to reinstate the image. This is very easy for us to do if the image is deleted. But if the image is moved to another category then it has recently become impossible for us to restore it's prior score. If you have images that were deleted unfairly - I can restore them for you.

I also have added a bunch of credits to your account so you an upload them again and boost as much as you need.

Again - my apologies.
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Ian Martyn

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Thanks Jason,

It was moved but I deleted it because it was unfair on the digital arts users - it had already hit 549 inside 15 minutes and I did not feel it was fair. I would rather lose the points rather than win by default. However, the loss of awards from the Portraits of Woman is far greater and that is what I am un happy about.

Yes there is one you deleted. It was a close up head shot - the complaint was it was the same image but in fact it was two shots of the same model - one full body shot and one close cropped head shot. I really don't see how they can be classed as the same shots apart from it is the same model and pose. I did not post the two images at the same time but 2 weeks apart. People voting on the full body shot as a whole and I did not think releasing her head shot broke any rules as it is only her head!!!!! There are far more similar images posted that really are the same in every way but they survive without any problem.

Thanks for the credits but I really don't have time to sit in front my computer boosting my images through lack of duels or badly paired votes. I would have hoped it would be automatic and look after itself.
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C.Charles

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Ian...I remember that image because i follow you and really like your style. The image that was deleted is a close up shot of this image.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

As i remember the deleted image looked like a zoom of this image. Although it was a different shot, to my recollection there was no significant change in pose. This is probably why the image was removed. Put the image up here and see what other people think.
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Ian Martyn

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Yes it is Bill - it is in fact a second close up shot and not a zoomed edit
You can clearly see the high detail in the head shot which proves it is not zoomed. I posted it to show the high amount of detail and did not think it would be classed as the same image - after all it is only her head!!!
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Ian Martyn

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The original full body shot was voted on its content and I am sure no one was voting for her head heheheheh
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C.Charles

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In my opinion both images are fantastic, and as i have said it was a different shot. But it was of the same model, same pose, same lighting. So by Pixoto rules they look similar. A lot of people are looking at these image on laptops or worse still mobiles and so do not appreciate the fine detail of your images, so an eyelash out of place will not show. Next time get the model to wink, she's so stunningly beautiful i'm on my way to Bristol
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Ian Martyn

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I have done nothing wrong Bill - If you look at the portraits of women you will see the same models wearing the same clothes in similar poses because the photogs shoot in groups. These are all similar shots and some by the same photogs.

When people voted for the full body shot they were voting for the full composition. The close cropped head shot can not be classed as the same just because it is the same model. If that is the case 80% of the portraits of woman should be deleted because the same models keep appearing with the same expressions.

My image is the same model and only showing her head and if you look closely you will see there are some differences - her hair had moved between shots and her mouth is slightly different. And I am sure if you placed them on top of each other in photoshop and select "Difference" you will see even more changes.

The image I just posted below clearly shows what should be classed as similar images!!!!
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Ian Martyn

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I would like to add - if the image was 2 full size body shots with her head in a slightly different position I would class that as a similar image!!!
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Ian Martyn

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Just reading you comment again Bill - If people look at these images on mobiles or laptops then that is their choice. Secondly when I do post work on a sequence of shot I ensure that they all have the same skin tones and correct exposure and black point settings so your comment about the same lighting can not be used as a similarity. It was a studio shot so the lighting remained constant.

So far I have lost 3 images and several awards through wrong judgments - the image above is not digital art as agreed with Jason. You say it LOOKED like a zoom shot but it is not and another wrong category issue is extremely annoying and frustrating. Although I have had apologies for these errors it does not exactly feel me with confidence while using this site. Why should I upload a micro retouched image that has taken 3 days to complete only to have it removed in error!!!

Jason,
I don't believe the above image can not be re-instated back to its original place on the leader board with the #1 award so that it can continue in the other awards. I had no choice but to delete the image because it should not have been there and was breaking your rules - it was also unfair for the digital arts users. If I left it there and it won an award I am sure people would have complained and it would have been moved again. So I think the right thing to do is put it back where it belongs - thankyou....
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Ian Martyn

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For me this is similar shots clearly breaking the rules.

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Urosh Grabner

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Are you serious Ian Martyn, you have so much violations of copyright on your Pixoto account that you can get in serious problems with the law? From a t least 3 or four different photographers and copying ...

This one is epic! But unfortunately for you it is not the only one ... :)



http://www.dailydesigninspiration.com...

Should I just send it to the DDB, my classmate is working there ... perhaps they have something to say about it, or will Axe have something to add to it or a real photographer would have ... like a lawsuit :)

Let me quote you: "I thought I could just upload some images and everything would work - there is so much cheating on this site it is crazy."

Really??? You don't say so :P
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Ian Martyn

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Read the thread which explains things more clearly Urosh :)
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C.Charles

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Ian...are those images you posted on Pixoto yours or are they from other photographers
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jorge

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LOL
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Ian Martyn

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Bill - do you have facebook or an other form of messaging - I will not upload proof to this site. However, I have just been talking to Urosh and he is fully aware of the situation. If you also read the thread above you will see I was testing the bad voting. Anyway I am not going to upload RAW files here - but I dont have a problem privately :)
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Ian Martyn

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An extract from the thread:
As for your comment "In general my work is portraits of women" there are other images in my account that are not as high quality. There are some really over processed and low quality images I used to prove a point with the bad voting.

Uploading a pair of images (1 good and 1 bad) highlighted what happens when people vote against your image. The good quality image goes straight to the top and shortly after it is voted down. The bad images are pushed up the leader board and win awards which is exactly what happened. My bad image came is at #6 score 710 on its own without boosting. I had to keep boosting the good image and eventually managed #7.

I repeated this several times with almost exactly the same results.
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Ian Martyn

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Now maybe you will understand that it was not an attempt to win awards unfairly it was to prove just how bad the voting is and that coupled with the bad pairing of images in the voting process also cripples users scores.
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Matko Matković

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Ian - can you then tell us what photos are yours (just links on pixoto no need for raw files), and why didn't you deleted those that are not yours used for testing of bad voting and keep getting awards for them and by doing so damaging other photos and violating copyrights?
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C.Charles

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Ian......I will be reporting you to Pixoto for copyright infringement. Just to let you know that it was me that asked Pixoto to remove your crop of this image.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

With further investigation i found that this image was not yours, it was by Valua Vitaly a well know Russian Photographer.

http://www.fotolia.com/id/55538331

The images you have in you profile are not yours, i have proof.

There is no need to send me any RAW file because i am not interested
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Ian Martyn

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Thats strange because raw files are the proof - but you still miss the point bill. I have no intention of staying here in pixoto because of the problems I have highlighted. I just feel sorry for the people winning awards because of the bad voting. I seen so many in facebook I was curious how they could possibly win awards. Now I Know.

Its a shame you can not see what I was doing and proving the flaws in this site and as you can see from the thread I was open about what I had done.

The fact that you are attacking me when I was trying to help you guys is nothing short of amazing.
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jenny4

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I don't know if Ian can read this now he's been banned? But he told us HE had created the digital art and photography he had submitted to prove a point.So if you are reading this, Ian, people don't like being lied to... that's why you feel like you're being attacked! I took you at your word and I feel a bit silly now!!
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Andrew Halpern

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So Ian, are you saying it is ok to steal other photographers work and post it as yours just to prove a point?
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Ian Martyn

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no of course not Andrew grrrrrrrrr
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Ian Martyn

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some were in fact manipulations I done maybe 6 years ago - it did not matter as long as the quality was bad - it just proved a point. I was not trying to win awrads with them but the bad voting caused that to happen.
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C.Charles

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Please everyone......do not reply to this person. What is the point, he steals other people images and posts them as his own.

Do not give him the space to air his views
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Pat Hartley

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I will reply Bill - SHAME ON YOU Ian - I fell for all the talk so shame on me too :(
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Wow. Thanks Bill and Urosh.

Ian has been banned from Pixoto due to copyright infringement. I'm sorry that I wasted so much time bending over backwards trying to help this criminal with his crime. As much as he denies in now he has been infringing on other peoples copyrights since he first joined Pixoto.
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Matko Matković

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Jason - he is copyright violator but I do agree with this topic and his and other users claims about slow dueling of images that start good and lack of control in categories.

Now please don't ignore problems discussed here because cheater was talking about them.

This just shows there is too much cheating going on here so problems and reports need faster response - users can help but can't do everything, Pixoto staff needs to do more and control categories more often - he is banned now but many other honest users lost points and awards because of him, Dheny and other cheaters and they can't get that back...
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jenny4

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OMG! That's the only thing I can think of saying without swearing! Was any of "his" work his? Shocked. :-(
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Lissa Apples

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Most, if not all, of the images in his profile were not his. When I checked, more than half were confirmed as belonging to someone else.
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Pat Hartley

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I know how you feel Jenny.
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jenny4

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How did you find out Lissa?

Pat, I didn't see this coming!! I don't understand what Ian was trying to achieve... any ideas anyone? I'm well and truly confuddled... and I don't like being confuddled...
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C.Charles

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It was when he started to give poor answers to the question of the cropped image, i was discussing earlier.

"My image is the same model and only showing her head and if you look closely you will see there are some differences - her hair had moved between shots and her mouth is slightly different. And I am sure if you placed them on top of each other in photoshop and select "Difference" you will see even more changes. "

If i download an image from Pixoto, any good photographer would know that you cannot see the detail. Also he bragged about using a Hasselblad hd3
camera which by co-incidence was the same camera used by Valua Vitaly a well know Russian Photographer.

Also the other comment:

" I am a micro re-toucher so I work on high detail. Maybe vogue and the other magazines." however i could find no trace of his work.

That is when i started to find out that a number of images were not his own.
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Charlie

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Good catch Bill. How about catching multiple accounts can you do that?
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Sandra Veech

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We all have our expertise Charlie...lol... I'm the expert at duplicate water lily accounts, others here are amazing at finding copyright or stolen images... others can break down digital art to find stock images...lol.
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Charlie

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"I'm the expert at duplicate water lily accounts".
I don't think so Sandra.... lol.
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jenny4

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I must admit Bill, I did a google search on him myself... not because I doubted him as such, but as he said he'd worked for Vogue etc, I was interested to find out more about him and see more of his work. I was a bit surprised when the only work of his I could find on google, was the work on Pixoto. Anyway, I thought it a bit unusual, but thought well not everyone has their work on the internet... should have listened to my instinct!
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jenny4

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Hi Sandra and Charlie btw! :-D
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Sandra Veech

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That was a joke Charlie. Because everyone here bugs me about being water lily obsessed. That's why I added the LOL. But I can't tell in print if you might just be joking back... my sarcastic tone doesn't translate well into print...but I was merely poking fun at myself.
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Charlie

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I know you're joking Sandra that's why i wrote lol.. also but you're right you are a good catcher. i wasn't hurt cuz i'm a water lily tog but the one i wrote " i don't think so" i mean it they are still there. Hope you get what i mean.
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jorge

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OMG!
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jenny4

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Something else I've noticed is photography, even pure photography is spilling over into the digital art category... maybe because people think they will have a better chance of winning in a smaller category?

This pure long exposure shot (nice as it is) is in the digital art category and I just lost a duel to it:

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

I've reported it, but meanwhile I'm struggling to even get into the 600s with my image: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra... I don't expect everyone to like my work of course!, but this image has done very well on 500px.com...

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