Painting With A Camera

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Dear Pixoto Photo Geek Administrators :

In my admiiteddly short time here I've noticed something that confuses and troubles me. As follows. Should one take a look at the leaderboard in the " flowers " category it would become clearly obvious that the top 95 % of the leading photos there have been heavily computer enhanced and staged.There is also a dearth of any creativity. It's the same thing over and over. It would seem that the highest score a photo of a flower photographed in it's natural state and outdoors can receive is in the mid 400's to the high 500's and they must be extremely good to attain that score. I would like to know how those of us that do excellent photography of flowers in their natural state and outdoors are supposed to compete with those that do " photography " of flowers using these computer enhancement and staging techniques ? I realize that the opinion I'm about to express is my own personal opinion but I also know that many agree with me. As follows. I subscribe to the theory that any "photo " that has been computer enhanced is not of the photographic art form at all but should rather be considered as " painting with a camera ". In short Sirs / Ma'ams these types of " photos " need their own category. I would suggest that they more appropriately belong in the " Digital Art " category.

I would very much enjoy the feedback of my fellow Pixoto members as to my observations and idea. I would also enjoy a reply from The Pixoto Foto Geek Wizard Administrators.

Warmest regards

Paul Stanner
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Paul Stanner

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Posted 6 years ago

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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Paul, we allow extensive post processing in all categories. Please see Category description page: http://blog.pixoto.com/category-descr...

Specifically this part:

"Photography Photoshop/Post Processing Rules

In an effort to find the best, and most striking imagery, extensive use of Photoshop or other post processing techniques is allowed in all categories. However images that look like “digital art” rather than photography should be categorized as such."

I hope this helps.
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Paul Stanner

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Dear Jasenka :

Well Sir while I appreciate your prompt response and courteous manner quite frankly your reply doesn't really help. Can you please explain to me why it would be so difficult to separate the " painters with a camera " from the photographers? It really isn't fair to expect those of us that like un-computer enhanced photography to compete in the same categories as those that do nor is it unreasonable in my humble opinion to give a separate category to those of us that do not like " painting with a camera " In short Sir I'd like to compete against people that do the same thing as I do and that share the same philosophy as regards the photographic arts. After all Sir ANYBODY can take a fair photo and dress it up on the computer and win an award but NOT everybody can capture those " Kodak Moments ". You can put a silk evening gown on a pig and call her a Lady Sir but when all is said and done she's still a pig. I really wish the Pixoto management would seriously consider my suggestion.

Thanks for your time and consideration Jasenka.

Warmest regards

Paul Stanner
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Graham White

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You really need to get over this. This is the way it is and your constant moaning is not going to change it. This is 21st Century Technology at work, get over it.
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Paul Stanner

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Graham White You painters with a camera need to get into the 21st Century and acknowledge that you skills have evolved into it's own separate art form. Why is somebody so digitally skilled as you seem to be saying you are so resistant to that? I suspect that you know the answer to that question if you're honest with yourself. It would also be nice if you " painters with a camera " would stop cheating other artists of their potential rewards.
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Graham White

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If you have a look at my Portfolio you will see that I am definitely not cheating anyone of anything. I'm not interested in your stupid little badges or rewards, my photographs and yes they are photographs are here to be sold as stock images not to compete for the pathetic badges and banners, if that's all your interested in then you really do need to get a life.
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Jay Gould

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Paul, what is a photographer? Perhaps you can describe how you shoot; what settings you use; what equipment you use.
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Jay Gould

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Paul, I think you miss the point of this place. It is not to identify the best Art be it SOOC or enhanced. It is to identify what people like the most; what sells. This is designed to create a duel to find the best image as you want to define it. It is only designed to see what the public like and will buy.
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Paul Stanner

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Jay Gould well excuse me Sir but this was advertised to me as a PHOTOGRAPHY site not a Digital Art site. I've been saying it since I got here but for some reason the " painters with a camera " can't / won't get the point. As long as there are awards given for the members artistic efforts and potential economic gains to be won then all members efforts should be judged on the appropriate merits. Computer enhanced " photography " has evolved to the point Sir that it is a complete and separate art form from , for lack of a better word , traditional or " pure " photography. They should not be judged as the same art form Sir. When that happens the " painters with a camera " are indeed cheating the traditional photographers out of their chance of some recognition and potentially some economic gains. The " painters with a camera " may be within the letter of the law although I would even question that judging by Pixotos own rules regarding the matter but they certainly are not within the spirit of the law in my humble opinion. I have absolutely nothing against the " painters with a camera " Sir other than the fierce resistance on their parts to acknowledge that their skills have evolved into it's own art form. One would think that they would accept my view of their skills as a compliment yet they don't . I think we both know the reason for that if we're honest with ourselves.

Ansell Adams would lose to Vincent Van Gogh EVERY time Sir were their respective art forms viewed as the same art form. It would be a patently unfair competition. How fortunate that that didn't happen then for if it had nobody in all likelihood would ever have heard of Ansell Adams now.

Paul Stanner
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Graham White

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I too have seen your body of work and you really shouldn't worry about anyone cheating you out of any potential awards or monetary gain.
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Paul Stanner

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Graham White I assure you Sir I'm not in the least worried about that. lol There are however far better photographers than me that are cheated daily by the likes of you " painters with a camera " . What is really sad is that you folks can't or probably more accurately won't see that you are indeed cheating people that have far more photographic talent than you painters with a camera. Could that be why you " painters with a camera " are so resistant to acknowledging that your skills are based in Computer Techno Geek Wizardry rather than photographic talent ? It is after all far easier to cheat people that are in a completely different art form than it is to compete solely with the " painters with a camera ". You guys should be ashamed of yourselves but you lack the good sense and manners to be.

Paul Stanner
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Graham White

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Well I'm sure that if all you pure flower photographers get together you can set up own website and have all the fun you want, maybe that would stop your whining and whinging about the truly awesome photographs that people post on this one. Good luck.
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Ralph Harvey

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Paul all i can see from your slagging match is that you like insulting anyone who has the talent to use a computer within the guidelines of this website !
We are not "painters with cameras" we are photographers who know how to use a computer, sorry if you don't like it there are several other sites out there why don't you try one of them ? see you can slag off and offend another group of people !!
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Paul Stanner

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When 29 " keets speaks does anyone listen ?
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Jay Gould

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Paul, you haven't told me/us about your gear and how you shoot. Do you shoot raw or jpeg; sooc or processed?
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EBR

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he uses a nikon coolpix
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Paul Stanner

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EB ypu really are a complete and total fuckwit and not just a normal run of the mill fuckwit but an exceptional one. Apparently you are an illiterate one since it's obvious that you can't read.
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EBR

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I now know the what kind of a person you are....there's no more point talking to you......you are so rude and arrogant...this place is not for someone who doesn't enjoy what this site can offer....I just saw your pix were moved to flower category and changes are you will hate pixoto even more
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Jay Gould

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Paul, how can you be cheating when you are giving the public what they want? You still haven't explained your methods/methodology. What makes you different?
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Jay Gould

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What does it mean to be a pure photographer instead of a light painter; what do you do differently? You complain and complain; yet, you do not explain.
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Paul Stanner

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Jay Gould how curious that nobody ever asked me to explain. That is probably because the " painters " were so busy being insulted where none was voiced or intended by me and protecting THEIR turf. Talk about insecurity and egomania . lol

My definition of " painting with a camera " is when the photo has been so computer enhanced that it no longer looks like a photo but rather a painting hence the term I coined " painting with a camera " I did state that definition right at the beginning of this whole discussion by the way. I realize that this is a subjective matter of opinion but in some cases . all too many actually , it is clearly obvious. I think a really good " painter with a camera " is the one that can do a great job of painting without having the original photograph look like a painting post computer enhancement. There are quite a few of those around and I enjoy their work. I also don't have a problem with thoser" painters" works being posted in the regular photography categories. Unfortunately there are far too many " painters " around who can't / won't do that. The flowers category is infested with them for instance. They have no sense of style , subtlety or nuance. There " art " is the rap music of the photographic / art world.

As for what equipment I use , beyond the settings on my camera I use nothing. What D.D. or Nikki see is what you see.

Does this clarify my position for you? I hope so
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Jay Gould

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Basically, you present images where you have set the camera a certain way and based upon those setting the engineers and programmers that made your camera decide how the image should look.

No thank you!

I will make the decision how the image should look; not some engineer.

What camera do you use?
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EBR

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this is his site: http://www.pixoto.com/paulstanner/recent
and has been submitting his flowers to nature category:
http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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Paul Stanner

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Jay I have five different cameras that I use. 3 Nikons , 1 Pentax and 1 Panasonic which is my favorite. As far as my method I just try to find that ever elusive " Kodak Moment " and then turn it over to D.D. , Penny or Nikki. To date with only about 12 minor exceptions my photos have not been computer enhanced in any way. What D.D. sees you see.It seems to work for me. My fans always rave about my photos. Yes yes I'm aware that you're most likely amazed that I have fans. lol That;s why I don't take anything negative the " painters " have to say about me or my work. It's a hobby albeit one I'm passionate about for me Sir.
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Joyce Andersen

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EBR take note of his 130 awards... all but the last 12 as a novice.. I wonder if this whole situation is because of the repetitive novice winning debacle of a couple months ago? Some one is angry? and is going to make everyone pay?

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