Nudes with underage children

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At what age do you consider one of your photos posted to be too old for a nude shot of a child? Am I the only one who finds this photo inappropriate? In my opinion with the increasing number of child pornography online and pedophiles "shopping" for nude pictures of children, I think there should be a cut-off point for nudes of children on a site such as this one. If this were MY young daughter, I definitely would not want a picture at this age topless posted on a community site.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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Debbie Hellems

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Posted 7 years ago

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Terry Gower

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i share your concern
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Debbie Hellems

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Thank you, Terry! I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one here...
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=-]

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Its sad we live in a society that we have to worry about such things, bc I am sure this photo of this girl was taken with only the best intentions. She is having so much fun!
In Europe this is the norm for people, in Greece the people, children, A lot swim like this.

Of course here in America its very different.
I personally would not post my daughter in such a way bc i know there are "bad" people who would use that picture, share it and so on....

But its a fine line on saying who is right or wrong. Because we live so differently from country to country.

perhaps pixoto can take into consideration for the sake of the safety of children, what is right or wrong in this case and some others. I have seen many small boys nude on here as well.
and at the same time maintain some sort of fair line for the other countries that do not have the same protections for children as well.
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Sherry Andreason

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I am asking for clarification and will let you know when I hear back.
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Sandra Veech

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I can't see the image linked above (it must have been removed)...but depending on the content, there are many many images of nude indonesian boys on this site playing in the water (which I assume is a normal thing in their country)- nothing full frontal. There have also been images of what I think are 6-10 year old girls with only bathing suit bottoms swimming.
So, again, maybe this one that was removed was more revealing- but other children's photos with no clothes have been allowed.
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Sherry Andreason

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Flag the ones you feel are inappropriate, the Report Team took care of it this time, they probably have more info than I do.
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Debbie Hellems

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Good!! I'm so glad to see it was taken down. I understand that it's acceptable in some other countries, but like L. said above it's sad we live in a society that we have to worry about such things. I certainly wouldn't look @ a picture of a child and think anything but innocence, but unfortunately there are those who do.
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Darrell Raw

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I haven't seen the image in question, so can't comment on that, but who do you think you are? This is an INTERNATIONAL site, not an American sand box for you prudish idiots to play god in. You can not define the moral and cultural rules of this site using American values (you shouldn't even if you could, because they are all screwed up as it is), because this is NOT a purely American site and you are in fact the minority!
Unless that child had developed breasts, there is no reason on earth you should be demanding it be taken off. " I understand that it's acceptable in some other countries.." DO YOU? OK then considering it's an international site, and it's OK in international eyes, why do you presume to think you can dictate what other countries can submit? Your arrogance makes me sick.
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Charles Shope

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I just stumbled on this thread, and I know it's a month old, but I feel compelled to comment.

Through all of your points Darrell, I agree. There are a lot of other countries represented in the user base, and all cultures should be looked at through the scope of what is acceptable to them. I didn't see the image in question, and my comments have nothing to do with it in particular. My biggest concern is that during your argument, you say that Americans are prudish idiots playing god. You also said "You can not define the moral and cultural rules of this site using American values (you shouldn't even if you could, because they are all screwed up as it is)" I don't believe anyone was attacking the culture of any individual country or people. It was a view, although apparently incorrect, based on the scope of someone who was concerned. A parent it seems as well.

You said that American values and morals are screwed up. You argue that this is a site full of people from across the world. You stand up to fight for the rights of each people of each culture to post something that they find beautiful, and that is commendable. It truly is. And in the same argument you call Americans "prudish," "idiots," and "arrogant." You base your entire argument about a whole culture around the post of one individual. I have no opinion of what that person said.

I am an American, and I find your judgments on my culture offensive. Yes, we have our flaws in the eyes of the world. So does every country. The French and English have a history of calling each other arrogant. The West and East have a history of calling each other godless. As a country we are instilled with the idea that this country is the greatest, a sense of pride. We are also taught that its our acceptance of anyone that makes us great. You forget that this is a "melting pot" of cultures (another "screwed up" American value, taught at an early age), so to take shots at us is to really take shots at pieces of the many cultures that make us what we are.

Finally, you start your entire argument with insults. That's is truly sad.

I know none of this will change your mind or alter your way of thinking, and that honestly makes me wonder...who is really the arrogant one here?
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Debbie Hellems

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Thank you, Charles! I'm glad to see that someone other than myself found Mr. Raw's comments completely unacceptable, especially given the fact that this question of mine had absolutely nothing to do with what country someone was from. As I pointed out in my last comment, sadly pedophiles cross over every barrier. I personally DID NOT feel that the person who posted the picture meant any harm with it at all, but then that made me stop to ask the question because I was new to the site and wanted to know for future reference when I see something questionable if it needs reported. I also had (on the same day) seen a picture that definitely had crossed the line I'm pretty sure by ANYBODY'S standards, including Mr. Raw (I would hope). It portrayed a child around the age of 3 or so with someone holding a GUN to that child's head. The child had a look of sheer terror on it's face. It was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen! Whether or not the gun was real and whether or not the whole picture was a photoshopped thing was not the point. The point was that someone had taken the time to do that type of photo & call it "art" obviously. So then that made me take a different look at things, because people who find these things amusing or artistic have a much deeper problem. As they say, "it takes a village to raise a child". I take that seriously and try to look out for other people's child as I would want them to do for me. But then I guess that's just another screwed up American value, right?

BTW, I am no longer a participant in Pixoto. I deleted my account after so many issues with MY photos being taken down for re-categorizing or a watermark that I forgot to take off (which BTW is allowed on other such sites), but others who continually break the rules get rewarded. Also, the rules for the "Novice" category are laughable. I was much more of a novice than most people on there, but because of ONE photo that made the top 10% on my first day uploading to Pixoto, I was no longer considered a novice. Now it's 3 months later, and I'm still very much a novice. Friends of mine have been posting in the Novice category for months & months & continue to do so and continue to get awards. That's a rule that makes no sense, too many rules, not enough fun on Pixoto. I find that ViewBug is much more encouraging and uplifting :)
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Terry Gower

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Thats unfair Darrell.......you didn't see the shot so you don't know what it looked like. Yes other countries have different cultures, sadly perverts and phedophiles don't care where the child comes from.
I do not think it is unreasonable to be concerned about pictures of naked children.
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Darrell Raw

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As I said, Terry, I'm not commenting on the specific picture, but rather on the tendency of the american members to be vastly offended at the culture and customs of other countries (which is fine, as long as you keep it to yourself...) and then demanding those pictures be taken down because they offend American sensibilities. Yet it is an International site, and as such should cater to all cultures. I don't see the millions of Muslims in India and Indonesia etc. demanding all the girl children pictures without head covering be removed, yet this is offensive to them.
If an Asian photographer posts pictures of kids holding cock-fighting birds, Americans demand they be removed - yet this is not an illegal sport in Asia and it's not offensive to them, so stop applying American values to an international site. It's really not up to photographers to control paedophiles and perverts, that's a job for law enforcement - and do you really think they don't look at kids in bikini's and perve? You can't censor images based on the illegal activities of a tiny percentage of the population.

To make it clear to you, your concern about child nudity doesn't bother me at all, nor does your comment. However Debbie's comment "Good!! I'm so glad to see it was taken down. I understand that it's acceptable in some other countries, but like L. said above it's sad we live in a society that we have to worry about such things. I certainly wouldn't look @ a picture of a child and think anything but innocence, but unfortunately there are those who do." epitomises the attitude of some American users who think American values should be applied to the rest of the world.
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=-]

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Darrel, the site is an American owned site, that allows international entries, it is NOT an international site.
the rules of the united states of America would apply to all photos on this site since it is operated in & out of the United States.

cock fighting is illegal in the United States.
it is also a big deal with many legalities to post pictures of youths naked in the united states, so regardless of how they do it in Booti Booti, Treewiddle or Timbuktu, USA laws would always apply, to Pixoto.

I don't think America's laws should be imposed on anything other then American owned and operated businesses.
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Last time I checked Darrel, Boulder, is a United state of America, not an international state of anything goes.

And just for the record that picture is back up
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Darrell Raw

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Well that gave me a good chuckle, thanks! Few errors in your facts however - lets start with cock-fighting. Sure, it's illegal in the USA, however images depicting cock-fighting are NOT. This is called freedom of speech, something your country "supposedly" holds dear. Therefore to have international members remove their images of cock-fighting is pure nonsense, spurred on by your desire for the rest of the world to bow down to American "values". The same holds true to many of the images that have incorrectly been removed from this site because some naive do-gooder believes it is detrimental to animals - in many cases this is due to the complainant simply not having an accurate understanding of what they are seeing. Photography is documentation, or art - neither of which are illegal in the USA, so even if the act depicted is illegal - the images would not be (with the exception of certain types of pornography where the images themselves may be illegal).

Now onto the relevant topic. A topless girl of the age 8-10 playing on a beach is not illegal in the USA. It was removed because an American viewed it through adult eyes and applied suspicious adult sensibilities to an innocent image, not because the act depicted was illegal. Had this been an overtly sexual image of an under-age child, I would join in with those demanding it be taken down.

What really makes me laugh is how you seem to deliberately misinterpret my words and attempt to make this about legal jurisdiction. This is an International site, not an American playground, and your values have no business being imposed on International communities. Should an International or American member start submitting child porn, then yes American law would have to be applied as it has jurisdiction. 8-10 year-old girls playing on a beach doesn't qualify.

Now that I've seen the image, I'm even more confused as to how it could be deemed sexual - you have child pageants with children dressed up to look sexy and adult, taught to move in a provocative manner in order to win competitions. This is offensive to me, but I realise it's not child porn (merely the theft of childhood). I guess I should start demanding the removal of all images related to child pageantry....
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=-]

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Well I am glad it made you chuckle bc from your initial post it sure did seem like you need one.
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Clare Rodgers

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"international state of anything goes"?

Oh really L, did you mean to sound so bolshy and arrogant!

The basic argument against it's removal was to not unfairly censor perfectly innocuous images, based purely on the suspicious thinking of another, looking for wrong where there is none as that is what their culture has told them to expect and made them fear and overreact. And I say that coming from the UK, where god knows it's much the same!

Presuming the one up now is the same, it's a beautiful, carefree image that looks to me like the epitome of childhood joy and freedom, I find it sad that anyone could think of it otherwise.
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Debbie Hellems

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First of all, Darrell, this was simply a "question" on my part, not a demand to take the picture down. IF you had read my original post, you would have known that. This is NOT a debate about Americans or British or any other country for that matter. It was simply an observation on my part and a question since I am fairly new to Pixoto. Also I am pretty sure that there are pedophiles in EVERY country, and I am pretty sure it is NOT just limited to Americans, so I truly fail to see your point. Besides, why exactly are you so bothered by my asking this particular question that you would stoop to the level of assuming I am an idiot or arrogant, neither adjective I might add describes the person I am. And I find it amusing that you presume to know so much about me as a person simply by the fact that I had a question about a picture that "may" have crossed the line. I find it very ironic that you get up on your soapbox about someone you've never talked to, seen, or met simply because I'm American and then have the nerve to call "me" an idiot and arrogant. Seems like you have a little prejudice issue to deal with. Given the fact that you admittedly did not see the photo, I rest my case.
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C.Charles

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Darrell...well said

The image was of a young girl of 8-10 playing in the surf with just her bikini bottoms, nothing provocative and something you would see a thousand times every day on any Mediterranean beach.
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Darrell Raw

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Thanks for clearing that up Bill, doesn't sound in the slightest like a pornographic image to me. Essentially then, we have an "offended" American inciting the removal of an image that is perfectly acceptable to a large percentage of the international community. Pixoto has officially become a censorship board and judge of all morality world wide based on American prejudice. This site is about as international as the Bible Belt.
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Debbie Hellems

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First of all, Darrell, this was simply a "question" on my part, not a demand to take the picture down. IF you had read my original post, you would have known that. This is NOT a debate about Americans or British or any other country for that matter. It was simply an observation on my part and a question since I am fairly new to Pixoto. Also I am pretty sure that there are pedophiles in EVERY country, and I am pretty sure it is NOT just limited to Americans, so I truly fail to see your point. Besides, why exactly are you so bothered by my asking this particular question that you would stoop to the level of assuming I am an idiot or arrogant, neither adjective I might add describes the person I am. And I find it amusing that you presume to know so much about me as a person simply by the fact that I had a question about a picture that "may" have crossed the line. I find it very ironic that you get up on your soapbox about someone you've never talked to, seen, or met simply because I'm American and then have the nerve to call "me" an idiot and arrogant. Seems like you have a little prejudice issue to deal with. Given the fact that you admittedly did not see the photo, I rest my case.
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Clare Rodgers

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Except Debbie did look at a picture of a child and didn't assume innocence, she assumed it to be an inappropriate picture and requiring of censorship.

I haven't seen the picture, so I don't know for sure.

But it is very sad that the media has managed to get everyone so worried that people see potential imaginary wrong-doing in perfectly acceptable art and feel they must take it away from the rest of us as we are irresponsible and shall be warped by it's viewing.

Insidious censorship of thought. I thought free speech was a basic tenet of human rights, not free speech so long as I approve what you're saying.....

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