Negative score and 0 duels for a new image.

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  • Problem
  • Updated 4 years ago
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I submitted new images and reloaded the page after a few minutes. To my surprise, one of the images had 0 duels and the score of -20 - see attached screen capture.

Not surprisingly, the image doesn't do very well.

Any plausible explanations?
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Mat Tmil

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Posted 4 years ago

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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Mat, I will ask about this and I will let you know when I get reply.
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Mat Tmil

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Any news?
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Mat, I'm sorry about delay. As soon as I get reply I will let you know.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Matt, I'm sorry about delay. This is a display error for a very specific set of circumstances. It will not affect the performance of the image.

I hope this helps.
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Mat Tmil

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No, it doesn't help. Can you explain "a very specific set of circumstances"? What do you mean by "display error"? Are you telling me that for some random "very specific" reason display shows something non-existent? Got a bridge for sale?
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Kelly, Official Rep

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Hi Mat, I'll ask our tech team for further clarification.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Mat - thanks for pointing this out. It's sort of a bug. Images in the Uncategorized category get an automatic 20 point handicap which means they actually start at -20. But so that we don't show -20 we make them zero before their first duel. The bug is that when the first duel doesn't count (there are a variety of reasons why the duel might not count) it removes the +20 adjustment. This happens incredibly rarely but it is something we will put on our agenda to fix.
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Mat Tmil

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Now I am confused.

"Images in the Uncategorized category get an automatic 20 point handicap which means they actually start at -20."

"we make them zero before their first duel."

"The bug .... removes the +20 adjustment."

So your program subtracts 20 points when the image is entered and adds it back before the first duel (right away)? And then this "sort of a bug" subtracts it again? And "incredibly rarely" somebody gets screwed?

Why are you subtracting and adding these 20 points? What is the point? (Excuse the pun).

And what are the reasons the duel does not count?

"Curiouser and curiouser!"
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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This is kind of a rabbit hole and without explaining the calculations behind our entire duel system it is unlikely to be a satisfying one to go down.  I will say that Uncategorized images start at a disadvantage of 20points to categorized images.  We just don't want them to show up as high on the overall leaderboard.  Votes may not count if the member has had suspicious recent voting activity.  
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William Hamm

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Jason Kiefer. Are you saying that if you post in the Uncategorized category You are being punished with a -20. Why not make this place fair for all. Find that bug remove it from the programming, allow the Uncategorized category to start at 'ZERO" (0) no - and 0 + Just my thoughts. Personally I feel it would be in the best interest of all involved.
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Joyce Andersen

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I disagree William... Uncategorized should be handicapped... including not getting prizes... it is not a bug, it is a way to encourage people to think a bit and categorize their shots.
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Mat Tmil

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Joyce,

First, uncategorized pictures are not eligible for cash prizes or points.

Second, I think the problem is that all this handicapping is done in secret:

"so that we don't show -20 we make them zero before their first duel",

even if somewhere in the rules it says

"uncategorized pictures are scored so that they are at a disadvantage to categorized images in the leaderboard".

So the rule is there but is well hidden.

Third, the explanation I got first was that it is display error and it will not affect the performance of the image. Then it was "we handicap it on purpose", and the error is that this handicap is shown. Why to hide it if it is in the rules?

And the last - it looks like because of the "proprietary algorithms" the rating can be skewed to benefit or punish some members (either random or specific). And this is the real problem.
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Mat Tmil

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Jason,

Sure, I understand - trade secrets, etc.

Actually, the explanation is clearly written in your rules:

"Pixoto... reserves the right to adjust and modify the image ranking algorithms at any time and at its sole discretion."

So it is definitely your right to yell "Off with their heads!" if/when you feel like it - we all agreed to it when we became members. But to me it all looks like a kangaroo court straight from Wonderland:

"Some of the jury wrote it down "important", and some "unimportant". Alice could see this, as she was near enough to look over their slates; "but it doesn't matter a bit", she thought to herself."

(I did look up the quote.)

I probably should stop asking questions - I already know the answer.

"I can't promise I'll try, but I'll try to try." (Bart Simpson).
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Ad Spruijt

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Jason, it doesn't seem to be rare any more, as it just happened again.
After resubmitting in flowers category, it got solved.
But the bug is there definitely...

link to the picture: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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Ad Spruijt

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any update Jason (or Jasenka)?
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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yes - uncategorized images are handicapped by 20 points.  This is intentional for the reason Joyce articulated.  We encourage you NOT to submit to uncategorized. The only reason one should be doing that is if they are a first timer getting use to the system or two they have VERY large catalogs they want to upload.

I have the bug in our tracking system but  it is not very high on our priority list because it does not effect the ultimate outcome of the voting and is only a transitory state (just as some categorized images go negative after one or two duels).  It is impossible for an image to stay in a negative state.
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Ad Spruijt

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Thank you Jason. Although I think negative score before any votes entered looks odd, your explanation is clear. FYI: I only entered the image by accident in uncategorized. Actually I think uncategorized shouldn't exist at all, but that discussion was there in another thread, so I shall not start that here again ;-)

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