Lotus world domination plot...

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This conversation has been merged. Please reference the main conversation: Reporting a Duplicate

This guy had duplicates removed yesterday, he's promply reposted the deleted ones. This kind of blatant disregard for the rules needs to go public.

Current set of dupes/trips (there may be more, but he's changing colours, adding bugs and rotating images to make them seem different, and I don't have time to compare them one by one...)

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
and exact duplicate with bugs added and colour changed...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

Over to you Pixoto....
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Darrell Raw

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Posted 8 years ago

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Darrell Raw

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Well mr sajolan with his shiny new name is jumping right back into the game with these:

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

The water drop pattern on these is identical, the angle change is so slight as to be almost negligible and he's of course changed the colour. I know for a fact these were removed already so he's re-posted them since then - but I guess Pixoto will give him another chance, yes? Because everyone deserves a 2nd...I mean 3rd...I mean 100 chances, right?
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Darrell Raw

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And now one is gone, assuming self deleted since it was the older one. He got a day 2 on the original and day 1 on the new so he gets to keep the higher award on the newer pic after cheating, because he's reacting faster than Pixoto. Cheating pays after all....
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Sherry Andreason

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Actually he wrong me and asked to have it removed
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Darrell Raw

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So you removed the older image? That's against Pixoto policy, the newer image is always removed...
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Sherry Andreason

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Darrell that rule applies when we act on a reported image, when a photographer approaches us and asks us to delete a specific image, we delete it. We had to delete the image for this Player because it had placed in the top 5% previously.
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Mark Zouroudis

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Ahh the lotus world domination plot is spreading. There is a Mr Ronnel Masangkay, hails from Manila in the Phillipines (or so it says on his profile). Must have loved the Lotus and just had to go take some pics and also while he was there just had to go and photograph that famous railway bridge and learn the ways of winning photographic competitions from our Thai crew.

first

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

second

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

third

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

Same pic all three, the usual different cropping and tint, contrast changes, add a bug etc. Still the same pic though.
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Darrell Raw

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That profile is pretty much a clone of the Thai ones. This has gone too far, it can't be fixed. I'm not going to bother looking for the never-ending duplicate images/accounts from this day on, the concept of Pixoto is broken now. Shame really, but there are other sites that can handle these cheats successfully and I'll be heading over to those.
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gaiafrique

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Pixoto - your house is on fire. The only water to put it out is to take a seriously hard line with cheating. You are going to lose the real photographers - and be left with cheats, copyright infringers, etc. Not quite the scenario you envisaged at the outset of your business venture?

Take a hard line. Make it stick and enforce it consistently.
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Mark Zouroudis

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What I don't understand is why thy let them get away with it time after time after time. There are some good pics among the duplicates etc but I don't recall seeing any of them up for stock or canvas sales. What has Pixoto got to lose by deleting their accounts all they do is cause trouble. It's not as if they where ever going to make any money out sale of their pics.

If I was in charge it would go something like this.

First offence
Delete the duplicate and email to the tog and put a bar put on submitting any more pics till they acknowledged the email (so they can't say they where not aware of the problem.

Second Offence
Delete both pics (original and duplicate) and email sent advising any more offences will result in account being deleted.

Third Offence
Delete the account

Sure they may open another account but they will get sick of it once they get picked up and kicked out again.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.
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Sandra Veech

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Well, there could be some discretion. I have uploaded duplicates twice now- BUT the difference was that I noticed myself right away and deleted them. (they had different file names when I pull them from my original edit vs my deliver to client edit so the submit page didn't catch it- I did when I did my own self screening by pulling up all my images from same category). Also, twice I was screened out right at the submit board.....SO... if a non-winning photog submits a duplicate and pulls it right away,doesn't notice, and complies, it doesn't have to be a simple one-two-three rule. I would hate to have been deleted for unintentional and self-corrected errors.
HOWEVER, when a photog submits multiple duplicates, they should have their account watched very carefully by an admin and every entry screened.
It's ridiculous when someone re-submits a duplicate the day after it's been deleted.... and no penalties day after day ...
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Michelle Meenawong

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and also I don't know what to say anymore. We have so many beautiful flowers here in Thailand, so why do they show always the same. It's a shame. Mad buffalo is a good photographer, I'm sure he could do something else. The whole story makes me more than sick. For sure the best is, delete all these cheaters and block their IP address. We won't miss them. It's also sad for Pixoto. It WAS a good community and now it became a cheaters community. All the fair players will delete their account. I wonder how Pixoto will look in 2-3 months
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Darrell Raw

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Seeing as the same photos have also been found on other profiles, I'm not sure it's safe to assume he's a good photographer...no one can be sure he had anything to do with their capture.
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Sandra Veech

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I HAVE noticed fewer lotus pictures on the leaderboard. Maybe the reports and increased awareness by both pixoto staff and members has led to some small steps of change?
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gaiafrique

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Personally I thought it had more to do with lotus flowering season ending... stand by for next October - or whenever it starts again?

Hollow laughter. Yes, I do think that the reporting has reduced some, but Darrell's comments (below) are correct. Tip of the lotusberg...
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Darrell Raw

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The lotus pictures are easy targets, but they are just the tip of the iceberg. There are still countless bridge, Gerber, landscape,rose, animal, bug..well - you name it someone is duping it... 90% of these cheats would just go away if cash prizes were dropped and all that would be left are the more traditional award collectors who "need" to be top of the leader board at all costs - a little bit easier to police.
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Flora Ehrlich

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I agree, think removing the cash prizes would alleviate alot of the problem. Sad but true.
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Cornelis Cornelissen

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Yes, you are wright and there are also insects in this category like ladybugs, butterflies and also reptiles like frogs, etc.
Pixoto should make it more clear in the category descriptions and also with examples what is allowed and what not.
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gaiafrique

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Interesting point you raise about animals in/on flowers Cornelis.

The only time that I used to report an animal (insect, bird, frog, etc) in an image in Nature up Close (flowers - or fungi - or rocks - or water, etc.) was when the flower/fungus/rock/water is not in as good focus as the animal - or, if the animal is very dominant in the photo, and the flower/fungus/rock/water is very much just a background or not much apparent. Flowers without insects are generally photographed in studios - where is the nature in that? For me, seeing a flower with a pollinator, or a flower-eater, or something else living (or rocks/sand) near (or on) it gives me a thrill. To my mind this is a far more accurate reflection of nature than a shop-bought, sterile "perfect" gerbera/rose/etc. photographed under unnatural lighting in studio conditions.

Nature up close should be for NATURE - not for horticulturally mass-produced flowers. There should be a category called "studio and artificial" or something like that, which allows all the photographers who spend hours setting up their shop-bought flowers, refrigerated insects (how else do you think most of the macro photos of bugs are taken), drops of water, fruit dropping into water, carefully posed people, etc. to be able to compete with each other, and allow nature photographers to take photos in nature - under conditions of difficult lighting, wind, etc.

Oh - and there should also be a stand alone category for lotuses and water-lilies - definitely one without any prize money... Pixoto would be able to close that category down within a month because of lack of interest (if there was no prize money)

Oh - one last thing - I said, "used to report" - because that is it from me. Popped back to the forum to mention about double awards for last week.

Have loads of fun folks - happy photographing... Hope the issues get resolved.
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David Winchester

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I agree with most of this, escept refridgerated bugs. I've never done this and I'm sure a lot of others haven't either. It's either I get lucky or I don't. I would still like to see a separate catagory for insects or a subcatagory in nature with insects on plants.
Dave Winchester
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Mark Zouroudis

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Just bumping to ensure that Mr Ronnel Masangkay's efforts don't get forgotten about. I understand that it's the easter weekend and staff are not on but letting this go is just wrong.
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Sherry Andreason

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I went through his account and reported the duplicates and similar images Mark, thank you for your report
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Sandra Veech

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I went and looked at those images you listed... and I KNOW that just about 2 days ago I reported the SAME images- but I thought it was on a woman's profile. I remember because I thought, boy that bug is in an odd position. Going to check now- I would only have found them if they were highly ranked on the leaderboard- as I like to watch the leaders daily (not always to report, often just to enjoy)
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Sandra Veech

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https://www.pixoto.com/images-photogr...
I found it.... I have to say OMG- here is that SAME image submitted by a "NOVICE " photographer Which I found by following this complaint post about duplicates:
http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...

So, this is the MOST blatant cheating I have seen, as not only is a "NOVICE" competing using a photo that is also winning in the regular categories, it is DUPLICATED (or Triplicated??) in both categories.
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Sherry Andreason

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Good catch Sandra, I thought something was odd when I was looking at the images early this morning. I have escalated the situation to Jason.
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Michelle Meenawong

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My question is: is there some tiny chance that pixoto can do something against all these cheaters? I fear this is some "mission impossible" You delete a picture and it come back the next day. It's a shame but people cheat if they get money for cheating.
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Sherry Andreason

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Michelle, we are working on fixing the problems, we have added people to the report team in order to more quickly remove images that are reported and have made it impossible to delete and resubmit images that have won 5% awards or better. We feel these two things will help get things under control.
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Mark Zouroudis

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Just checked and the pics that I reported from Ronnel Masangkay nearly 2weeks ago are still there. Any idea when they may be acted apon?
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Sherry Andreason

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There are some other things going on with this account that we are looking in to
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Michelle Meenawong

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I know you are working on this but if you delete only the pics, they resubmit them. This is a never ending story. Must be very tiring also for the Pixoto staff
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Sherry Andreason

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We are giving out warnings to repeat offenders
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Yatin Pandit

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Dont Give warnings , Just Delete The pics and remove awards .......
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Michelle Meenawong

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I am sure you do it but do THEY care?
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Yatin Pandit

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there are so many fake followers too from the same region . they are following you only so they can vote against you .
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William Lee

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Do you know why some (or maybe many people) submit duplicates? It's Pixoto's own fault. Pixoto use the word "Total" as the bait to allure them to do that. Change "Total points" into "Average points" and "Total number of awards" into "Average awards" will solve this kind of problem.

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