Let users choose where their votes come from!

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  • Updated 7 years ago
Allow the users to decide where they get their votes. If you are from US then you could choose.
Debut your image here
1. USA
2. Canada
3. Mexico
4. United Kingdom

and so forth, then we in the states wont have to suffer the I nfinite D eath spiral
just list them all and let us pick!

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Martin Dunaway

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Posted 7 years ago

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Vibeke

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That sounds very insular to me.
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Martin Dunaway

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Not intended Vibeke!! :-)
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Woodstock

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???
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Tupu Kuismin

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Dear M. Dunaway
I'm from Finland Europe, my habits and my cultural background is very Scandinavian European style (like that kind style of photos as well). BUT now I am living in Singapore Asia as an expat...DO you wanna prevent view of mine and ability of see and vote your photos? Thank you very much, I will disagree, not funny but sad! Or was this as a joke:o) Hope...Have a nice day even world seems to be so odd some days.

Kindly foreigner but not foreign
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Martin Dunaway

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No Tupu not meant to be hurtful in anyway! just that the pixoto machine is very unbalanced and something needs to change. For a global site it seems that it is very out of control.I like all photos that are done well, but as everyone here has seen there are certain subjects that are "over represented" yet we still have the same problem. just very frustrated and didn't mean to offend anyone!!!
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C.Charles

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I understand Martin's sentiments but deciding to vote on the basis of geographic entry would be shortsighted. Pixoto is a global site and it should remain that way.

Pixoto has a major dilemma in that the majority of its users both in terms of image submission and in particular their voting preferences come from a specific region. The voting trend on Pixoto is definitely cultural and ethnocentric which is why the same types of images appear in the top positions in every category. The same would happen if the majority of users came from the US or Europe.

Pixoto needs to address this imbalance, how they do this is up to them, it is their strategic business decision to make. If Pixoto does little to address its current customer demographics then they will start to lose its US and Europe customer base, which is where the majority of future revenue streams from paying subscribers and advertisements and sales would occur.

There is no point in entering a competition when you know you are going to lose on the basis of cultural and ethnocentric voting preferences whether that preference is US or Asian based.
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Martin Dunaway

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Bill,
What about amassing the votes locally first, then taking the best of the best to go head to head with the other countries? This way all of the images that were not to par would be weeded out in their own regions first? This would keep the site global but would allow local images to do better(without regional biasing) then just take the best ones to compete on the global scale! IDK just a thought
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After Oz

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I think Martin's idea is GREAT!!
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Garces & Garces

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try your local photo contests first, you might get what you want.
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After Oz

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I would agree to some degree with Martin and Bill. Equality in and appreciation of ethnicity is important but the voting trends do reflect an unequal balance of cultures in certain categories. What offends me in a photo may seem natural to others. I won't vote for a photo of young nude adolescent males because western culture dictates that taking those photos is pedophilia (and I can't imagine WHY those are allowed!!!) and it doesn't matter if that photo is of better quality or not -- same goes for dogs fighting or cock fighting (I don't like insects going at it either -- yea, go ahead a call me an insect phobic prude). I look at some images and think "what the heck is that?" Psychologically, people will always lean towards what is attractive to them. I don't see a way to fix this though and consider it a cultural lesson of the world and certainly a lopsided voting platform here.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Thank you for suggestion Martin, I will forward it to the management.
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Garces & Garces

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Photography has no boundaries. Don't make this site boring with your proposal. Make it a challenge to yourself how to make images that catch broad audience and appeal to their tastes. There should be no room for ethnicity here. We are voting for images and not the photographer. This is PIXOTO - world's best images.
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C.Charles

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Garces and Garces

You are wrong in your statement in making images that appeal to a broad audience on Pixoto. What is the point in everyone creating the same images, we already have too many repetitive images on Pixoto why then add to the monotony.

Unfortunately here on Pixoto there are many users that tend to vote with cultural and ethnocentric prejudices, that is why we see the same images every day.

Pixoto does not have the worlds best images as most of its so called best images come from one region. That is not the case when you go to somewhere like National Geographic.
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Garces & Garces

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Bill

Don't conclude that people here are voting solely based on cultural preferences, that is your opinion but that is not based on any proven evidence. I know Pixoto has shortcomings in some areas, but I don't support adding more layers to the system.

If you're saying that most of the winning images here come only from one region, then I agree because their images are really outstanding even if it's almost the same every day. However, it's now a challenge on my part on how to come up something that would at least compete with those images.

If Indonesia has lilies, or Japan has cherry blossoms, then US has snow to work with. It's only a matter of how you make those subjects look outstanding.

Pixoto is fun, make it that way everyday!
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Martin Dunaway

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Garces, It is not a personal attack on ID,or anyone its a simple fact that there is biasing going on! weather intentional or not, its happening. If you cant see it (or dont want to) its not just about a better photo.IMHO
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Garces & Garces

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Martin

If that is your argument then your proposal is a trash. It would do nothing.
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Martin Dunaway

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That IS rude! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Cailin

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I also tend to agree with the statement that people are voting according to their cultural tastes and preferences...I have often wondered why it is that when I post my pictures in the morning (Europe) I get usually pretty bad results (mostly people from Asia voting) and when I repost them in the afternoon, when Americans, or Canadians wake up, suddenly my results are on the rise. But the problem would be that we would have to know first how each of our new additions would appeal to a certain kind of voter before chosing our region, and I don't think there is a general rule. Except for lillies, fishermen and splashing kids, of course...;)
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C.Charles

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Garces and Garces

Please read what Maria has posted about the submission of images during certain time periods....this is a fact know by many people here on Pixoto.

In the people category this year about 90% of the top images come from one region:

In the flower category this year about 90% of the top images come from one region:

In the other categories where the geographical and cultural origins of the image is more difficult to define then the percentage is around 40%-50%

Are you telling me that the rest of the world is incapable of producing the same or better images...NO. The main reason why they are top is that the majority of voters come from one region, they vote on the basis of cultural and demographic leanings just as we all do. The only way to compete on Pixoto is to produce similar images, however that soon becomes boring and stale.

The flower category is completely dominated by Lilies and Roses, why submit your own nice images of flowers knowing that it will not do well against these images. The main focus for many here on Pixoto is to put your image up against other images in a competition to find the better image. The competition is not a level playing field, it is not based on skill but on cultural and demographic voting tendencies from the largest voting region.

At the moment this is how i perceive the current status of the categories on Pixoto:

People Category-------Asian Beauty competition
Flowers-----------Lilies v Roses
Nature Up Close-----------flowers reflected into water drops
Transport-------Asian Fishing Boats
Buildings------Temples v that bridge

Unless you submit similar images of that type they on average will not do well. As i said what is the point of entering a competition that is stacked against you. Unless Pixoto comes up with a plan to boost its US/Europe presence this site will become so region specific it will drive that US/Europe customer base away.
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Garces & Garces

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Bill

With due respect, the way I see it is that you're implying that Pixoto is not fair to other parts of the world and favoring Asians particularly Indonesia. However, the suggestion you're supporting is just shifting that "bias" from one side to the other. It's not leveling the field. And how did you come up with figures that majority of voters come from one region? Did Pixoto gave you that data? Are you saying that people in other parts of the world are lazy to vote? Or maybe are they so rich that they can afford to buy credits so they don't mind voting? For me that is just all speculations. I don't mind what time of the day I submit images, It may duel poorly at the start, but at the end of the day, my image will find a rank where it should belong no matter what. That's Pixoto's algorithm is all about.

Lastly, US/Europe is not always the best. Now take that as a challenge and prove otherwise. Don't cry that it's not fair here, just work on your images and beat the odds!
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Cailin

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Garces, noone is saying the US or Europe are the best, simply it IS true that this site is swamped with posting (and of course also voting) by mostly people from Indonesia, Thailand, or India. And since obviously those people don't have the same "taste" in photography as Europeans or Americans do, whenever you submit pics within their time frame, those pics are off to a bad start, whilst if you posted them during the time when Asia is asleep, those same pics might fare much better. And everyone knows that it's the first votes that determine how a given picture will position itself.
I have recently become acutely aware of the predominance of Pixoto members from the above-mentionned countries, because out of 300+ people following me, there are probably 80% of Indonesians or Thai. How weird...
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Garces & Garces

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Marie

Your assumptions are again based on your personal perceptions fuelled by your own biases. First of all when we vote, we don't know where it come from and from whom. If you know who's images you're voting, then you're the bias one. Secondly, the number of members from a particular region doesn't automatically constitute vote much more a vote for their region, unless you got a data showing otherwise.

As far as I know Algorithm is scientific, assumptions are not.
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C.Charles

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Garces & Garces

Here are a few facts:

In 2013 these are the tog numbers per country that submit images:

USA 18,000
ID 10500
IN 9000
PH 1500
MAL 3000
UK 3000
Aus 1200

Most other countries have between 100-500 togs that have submitted an image.

As you can see 3 Asian Countries account for about 40 % of the total image submissions. But that is not the whole story. What you also need to look at is the number of users in the Asian region that have no images. I do not have the numbers but they run into the several 1000's. Do some research of your own. Look on any ID profile and you will between 20-60 % of these followers have no images and in the main they come from ID. That is a large % of voters. This has been discussed several times on this forum.

In your answer to Marie, when 2 image are in a duel you can tell where they come from 90% of the time. In the people/flowers/Buildings/children/nature up close it is very easy to see which region the image comes from. If i see an image of a famous US landmark then proportionally there is greater chance that this image was taken by a US citizen than by a citizen of another country.

I'm going to address each of your comment, which i find offensive and rude:

1) you're supporting is just shifting that "bias" from one side to the other. It's not leveling the field.

No. What i want to see from Pixoto having a site that leans to no region. How they do that is their concern. I am not in favour of seeing a proliferation lilies/roses, Asian women, temples, Thai Bridges from one region in favour of seeing images of Tulips/dahlias, US women, American monuments, US bridges.

2) And how did you come up with figures that majority of voters come from one region? Did Pixoto gave you that data?

The information on the number of togs v regions is on the Pixoto site, however i have no information as to the number of voters per region.

3) Are you saying that people in other parts of the world are lazy to vote? Or maybe are they so rich that they can afford to buy credits so they don't mind voting?

I have not said anything with respect to your comments above.
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Garces & Garces

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Bill

Again your arguments are nothing but perceptions, you always equate SUBMITTED IMAGES to VOTE. Besides you count 3 Asian countries vs the US which is absurd. It's like comparing 3 apples to 1. If you compare U.S. then compare it to another country not three countries. Count all submissions within American continent from Canada to Chile then compare it to all Asian countries, or European Countries then that's the time I will reconsider believing you. But then again, submission is not a VOTE.

Lastly, don't be too onion skinned, I may not agree with you but that doesn't mean I'm rude.
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Vibeke

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I have been following this topic with great interest. I'm totally against splitting into different regions, Ok so lilies are specific to the East, and I have to admit I'm getting tired of seeing similar images all the time, but on the other hand,they are superb. I would have thought that Roses, was an American theme.
But the real interesting point I have seen lately is that we have 1000'ds of voters who have no entries. This is very much where I can see how the votes could be unfair with friends voting for friends. I was a moderator on an other site and found this happened quite a lot.
Should be easy to change the rules, so No images uploaded, No right to vote.
Would probably have to give new members a few credits to start with.
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Dipali

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I am with you Vibeke. Could it be that some of the 1000's of voters without images are the buyers and not the contributors? Obviously the buyers would buy images and not submit images. Just a thought. Pixoto knows better in this matter.
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Dipali

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I like your idea of No images submitted = No right to vote.
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Martin Dunaway

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I agree with Vibeke also on this. I started this thread to bring it to the top hoping something could be done about it! Perhaps the way I worded it was not correct but I think the point was made
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After Oz

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I'm good with that, too, Vibeke!
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Garces & Garces

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Vibeke

Your idea maybe good, but it's a rule that's going to be nothing. If those 1000 IDs with no image entry is being used to cheat, then chances are they just go around the rule and do the same. How easy it is to upload 1 image just to make the voting. My only question is, if those 1000 were made to vote for their friends, what is the odd of having those images of their friend be on the right duel in order for them to influence the outcome of the voting? I have been observing my duels when voting, I rarely see a particular image that is on the top 20 that pops up in my duels in order for me to vote. In other words, the odd is so huge for someone to vote for their friends' images.
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Garces & Garces

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The best way for Pixoto to verify these 1000 accounts is to check their credits, surely they will accumulate so much points if they don't submit images.
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After Oz

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A fine example is that I know to submit my image during the afternoon my time to get western country votes on my photo but I decided to try it tonight as an experiment. I submitted an image that to anyone would appear to be of a western country origin. Everyone of my first 10 duels were against eastern countries and despite mine being a fairly nice image, even the blurry low point images were winning against mine. I used a boost because it was paused and again it started dueling against eastern country images, keeping my score extremely low despite the quality of the other images. I once again unpaused the image and it started going against western country images and winning. These photos had much higher numbers which pushed my photo immediately over 500. I can't help but speculate how this happens but more times than not, if I submit after 9:00 pm, I'm going to get a bad score. If a submit mid to late morning, I will immediately get to where the photo should have been in the first place. Biased voting -- it would certainly appear that way.
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Martin Dunaway

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Hmmm imagine that...you don't say!
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After Oz

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Hey - trying to prove something here since no one or at least someone does not seem to believe your initial post. Just backing you up! :)
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Martin Dunaway

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its appreciated! very much! :-)

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