I'm new, but something seems very wrong here

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  • Updated 6 years ago
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Something is very wrong with the voting here.

I just uploaded this image: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

So far, it has lost to this: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
And twice to this: http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

I suppose perhaps I could be BLIND and much too biased toward my own image, but honestly I don't think so. What is Pixoto doing about this kind of voting?
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Jackie

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Posted 8 years ago

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Jackie

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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Jackie - I can understand your concern but on the other hand I can see why someone would have chosen the second image because that dog has a very unique and intriguing facial expression (and the fact that it is slightly out of focus may not be as evident in imageduel). Over 180 people have voted on that dog with 120+ wins - so obviously there is something about him that people like.

Overall we recognize that there are voters out there that will vote differently from most people. We handle this by making sure that images get votes from a large variety of people and if someone is voting in a way that would make us doubt their credibility then we discount the impact of their votes.

Hope this helps
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Jackie

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No, not really. The shots were more than just 'slightly out of focus' - they were snapshots at best, and anyone even slightly familiar with a camera would recognize that. The fact that they have so many wins makes a very large statement about the quality of this site as a "true" photo contest and the lack of checks/balances in place here.

And please don't think I'm eating 'sour grapes'. I've competed enough on other sites & in real life to know what level I'm at in the big scheme of things. I've had my share of wins, but I also always try to learn from those that are better than I am. I generally try to put my ego aside and learn from the experience of competing rather than letting it get to me.

However, if what you say the case, then this appears to be no more than a popularity contest where composition, lighting, sharpness, etc. are tossed out the window on a whim.

I was excited about joining here yesterday. Today, not so much...
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Sorry you feel this way. Personally, I think Pixoto members to an amazing job of identifying the best, and most striking, images overall.
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Jackie

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I'd have to agree on the top notch, very striking images. Those are easy to pick out no matter who you are (IMO). The top images on your front page are just that - top notch. The cream that has risen to the top.

It's the images that are NOT in that "upper league" and require some actual thought that seem to be taking a hit. Not a big incentive there for us 'average' shooters who keep working (WORKING) at the craft and at least know what composition, f-stop & shutter speed are...
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Nathan Cool

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A lot of folks are complaining about this. See also: http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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christy sawyer

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I looked at your photo verses the others. I agree yours is much better. I had one up of my grandaughter and her puppy which of course I think is good. I lost to a photo of a persons neck with a piercing. It wasn't even focused. Hummm. Wierd.
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John Hall

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I too get frustrated Jackie but you have to accept that where the general public are given free rein, the chocolate box puppy shots with "aah factor" are gonna win out over true photography much of the time. Don't even start me on cutesy wedding couples. Why is this even a category on pixoto. Does anyone apart from the couple themselves & the guy who took the shot really want to be continuously viewing these on image duel???
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christy sawyer

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I'm with you Jackie. The shots at the top totally exceed my talent , but they had to start from somewhere. I have improved in my work over the last couple of years and love to learn from others. I get so frustrated when I put up a good shot and loose to a shot that IMO isn't good at all. A blurry neck piercing isn't IMO interesting in the least. It was even in b&w. I don't care if someone else wins that has talent, that's a given, but it does discourage some of us that are still learning the trade and do have some pretty good shots. Atleast I'm proud of some of mine.........
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Julie Hall

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After checking out these shots....I can't understand why you can't understand why your shot didn't beat those shots. Maybe you should apply some duct tape to your head to shrink it back down to normal. Or get glasses.
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christy sawyer

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Who are you adressing this to?
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Julie Hall

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Sorry that was meant for Jackie and her ferocious attitude.
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Julie Hall

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you have no right to judge me or others. I don't know who you think you are, but if you are so great of a photographer maybe you should find a bigger playground. You sit there and criticize other people on their God given gifts and talent and proclaim yourself to be better. If you are that good, go get a job doing photography and stop playing on sites with people that are not as good as you.
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Tammy Benton

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lmao!
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Julie Hall

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I just looked at your portfolio. It's too bad your such an ass becuz some of your work is really good and I have voted for it in the past. What a waste of talent.
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Jackie

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Look, I'm not trying to get into a fight with you. I'm objecting because people don't really seem to be LOOKING at photos before voting.

I work hard at this craft, as do many others on here. Some of my images represent HOURS and even DAYS worth of work. In fact, there are images in my portfolio that have taken me almost a year to 'tweak' one little thing or another and finally be satisfied with in post processing. I can't even count the times I've discarded some images and started over from scratch with the RAW file. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. I'm a competent photographer and have made my living in the field since about 1981, but I also know full well that I'm not one of those elite 'Top Gun' world class shooters. I appreciate those wonderful images though, and keep working HARD to improve toward that kind of quality.

I also usually know by looking which images have much work & thought put into creating them, and which ones were clicked off like gunfire on the spur of the moment causing them to be lacking in the very minimal requirements for a 'well crafted' image. I also regularly look at the portfolios of others (both here and elsewhere) to see what kind of progression they have made as photographers by viewing both their older & more recent work. In short, I STUDY photography, photographers & photographic techniques.

It is wrenching to watch the kind of effort applied to an image made with enormous consideration & care being discounted in favor of the 'ohhh, cute puppy' factor. Not just in my images, but in anyone's. To vote on an image without taking the time to (1) learn what work is involved in creating it, and (2) \REALLY look at it beyond the 'ohh, cute puppy' first response, does BOTH artists involved a disservice. It discounts the hours of study, care, and preparation of the first artist, and gives the second artist a false sense of accomplishment and robs them of honesty and a chance to learn & improve.

Take this example:

First, look at this picture - http://www.ernst-haas.com/slideshowCo...

AFTER you've looked at it, read this - http://www.jafaphotography.com/how_to...

Seriously, I'm not trying to be an 'ass'...
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Julie Hall

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I am just so tired of people judging people. I work hard at my craft as well. But to have someone come in with their "opinion" and just tear people up...it breaks my heart. You did it to me too. I may not have been doing this as long as you, but you can't judge my passion for the art based soley on the skills of yourself and the people you admire. There are 100's of thousands of photographers out there and 10 times more people looking at those images. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I believe there is enough space in this world for everyone to freely express their own visions. If they don't fit your visions it is unfair to put them down and you did that publicly without their prior knowledge. So I am sure it was very hurtful to the photographer to see that. It was just mean. Though it was none of my business and I have learned that my opinion means very little on this planet. I'll leave you be, I don't want to fight either. As far as fairness on this site...try SOAphoto.com and I am sure you will come running back here for the fairness. This site is among the best out there for new photographers to get their feet wet and learn......being mean and putting people down will not teach them.
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Jackie

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"being mean and putting people down will not teach them"

Agree, which is why I regretted/deleted my previous comment IMMEDIATELY after hitting the reply button. Too bad it was still seen somehow...
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Julie Hall

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A starting point. suddenly I forgot what this was about....don't want to remember. I can understand regret, live with it everyday. Nice to meet you.
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Jackie

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Nice to meet you too. Shall we start over...? :)
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Julie Hall

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Yes!
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Julie Hall

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and you know what? I like people like you that can argue and let it go. I am sorry if I said anything to hurt you, I tried not to...but I really did mean it when I said i think some of your work is really good. I hope someday mine will grab good attention as well.
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Jackie

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I'm sorry if I said anything to hurt you too. I've found that most people who argue don't necessarily want to be 'right' - they just want to feel like they've been heard. I'm no different, and you probably aren't either.

I was just looking at your portfolio, and a photo I saw earlier that grabbed my attention is missing. It was of the guy on a unicycle, but you had edited it so he was popping out of a frame. I liked that one. Did you take it down? It had some real potential going for it. Just a few tweaks and it could really work...
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Julie Hall

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Yes I took it down today. I had hesitated before becuz he was doing so well, but there are threads bleeding on it that are bothering me to no end. I actually took down a few today....the plan is to work a bit harder on them and repost. When I first started I kept up anything over 300 pts...now I don't want them on there if they are under 500...LOL oh how picky I am getting. But this is what I am learning here....higher expectations....so i want to be better. I am hoping to repost some next week. Thanks for the compliment!
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christy sawyer

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You are both great for letting this go. I love both your passion and honesty. Another site I belong to have some members that have been feuding for a long time. Not worth the bother..........
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Jackie

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Thanks.

It would be really nice if there were a PM function so that some conversations could be held in private, though.... :)
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Julie Hall

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pm function would be cool
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Wayne Clark

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A thought occurred to me (and yes, it hurt). Understanding how ego plays in these competitions, I have yet to see a post where someone notes, "this image just lost to mine...how the hell did that happen?"
Keeping it real, we're here to have fun, not get rich.
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Jackie

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Actually, I had that thought earlier about a couple of images that lost to one of mine, but I had to go hurry & get ready for a portrait session this afternoon and didn't get a chance to post about it.

I was shocked, I mean absolutely STUNNED, to see that I had won against these beautiful shots. I've lost track of one because I didn't think to bookmark it, but the other one was done by one of my favorite photographers - a guy I met on another contest site. I've always admired his work and wished I could get myself to his level, so to have beaten one of his images absolutely flabbergasted me.

Here's his shot. Isn't he GREAT?! I have NO idea who it was that thought mine was better, but I can tell you honestly that it is NOT.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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christy sawyer

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...................
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christy sawyer

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Jackie,
I just looked at your work. It's really GOOD. I love Sparky.
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Julie Hall

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Good point.
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Melanie Kern-Favilla

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I put in a suggestion that in the duels, one image should be shadowed out until you mouse over it (then the other gets shadowed out). That way you can judge on the photo itself, as opposed to which one catches your eye with color or brightness. It will force the viewer to look a little closer.
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tamarasw

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I realize it's been awhile since the original post was made, but thought I would add a note. I've learned that pictures, when first submitted, tend to get "paused" fairly quickly. It has paid off to give them a boost several times at the beginning to get them through more duels. That seems to get past any randomness, and get the photos into a place where they are being judged more fairly. Just my experience.

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