I suggest followers be prohibited from voting on photos of the person they follow.

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  • Updated 5 years ago
It appears to me that followers are likely to be biased and vote in favor of their leaders/teachers/mentors.
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Pete Bobb

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Posted 6 years ago

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Anoop Namboothiri

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I agree completely! I was really thinking this.. Once you're a follower you know what this person uploads and most of his images.. This will definitely influence the voting pattern of his... nice to see you think alike Pete !
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Lenore

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It is in the rules that we are supposed to skip a duel if we know either of the photographers in that duel. I would imagine those who follow hundreds of people might have no idea, though, what each and every one of those people have uploaded, day to day.

If you're trying to avoid cheaters, all someone would have to do would be unfollow their friend and instead bookmark their friend's account......

Sad but true. :-(
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Joyce Andersen

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I could never understand why some photogs have thousands of followers. or why anyone would follow hundreds of other photographers... except it would make things easier to cheat. I am not a computer hacker or even very saavy about computers... but isn't it possible to program a robovoter program to vote everytime a followed photog's pics come up in duels? sell that program to all your buddies. am I just thinking it is possible because there are programs that will robo-collect my game points in all my facebook games, I only have to call up the program and hit a button once a day and it collects for the full day.
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Lenore

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It never occurred to me that someone would go to the bother of that -- what a sad and pitiful thing it would be for someone to be like that -- but now that you mention it, I think it's possible there are folks out there who have figured out how to try to "beat the system".
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redwar

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Lenore,

How do you think one guy gets all the 700s and the rest of us are in the swamps of 600 or less? It does happen and it has to stop.

Plus do you see what you are saying. You are agreeing that it is a system. We are photographers our work should stand on its own merit. I don't take stock pictures. I don't have thousands of followers --- although I would love to have a few more (hint, hint). I take images I love, find interesting and different.

Then I try to improve them using Lightroom. And then I post them up here.

Sometimes the speed in which they rise is mind boggling. Sometimes the ones I though would rise don't and the ones I didn't expect to do so do.

I'm not asking for recognition just a fair shake from the dueling.

But when I see a handful hit the 700 club on a constant basis and I also see other images that a ten times better than mine or the 700 club never get there, I have to say something.
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Lenore

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I probably should have said "beat the house". It's a lot like Vegas here. Skill and strategy can only get you so far......it's still a game of chance. Cold, hard cash IS at stake (the best of the week wins money). People can be weird when money is involved.
:-)
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redwar

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Here's an example:

Carl's 800 club image did not duel against any of my images.

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...

Yet I have close to 40 images in this group:

http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
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KIM CROWE

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I have never commented on here before and I am a very recent member-2 months-I enjoy the challenge and have upped my game so to speak.There are so many talented photographers on here that I admire...That being said I don't mind losing to a better photo but when a mediocre photo flies up to 700 points you know something isn't right.It seems like the majority is coming from one certain area.If Pixoto would stop giving cash prizes and would give points,canvas prints,gift certificates,pixoto subscriptions ,ect....maybe that would help.I don't mind losing I just hate cheaters!!
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Terry Gower

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many follow others so they can vote them down in duels, we all know there is cheating going on.
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Lenore

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Robert, I know that. I've been on the internet for ages; I was the managing editor of a consumer computer magazine here in Canada years ago. I have sold my photographs online for years. And I have had images stolen. My colleagues have had images stolen. We are unfortunately familiar with DMCA takedown requests. :-)

I have no control whatsoever in this great big wide world over who bookmarks my profile page but I would like control over who can and cannot follow me. That's the bottom line :-)
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Pete Bobb

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Several times a year I use a site to find where my photos are used.
I have even found paper magazines using my photos without permission!
More common is people using my wiki images on the internet without giving me credit as is required under the wiki-commons agreement.
https://www.tineye.com/
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Lenore

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Pete, TinEye is great! :-)

I hope you got some compensation from those magazines! One of my colleagues discovered that a state tourism board was using her photos in their printed material, without her permission or even credit to her. She was so incensed she got the local news involved. It all worked out in her favour in the end and, if I remember right, they even agree to pay her some $$ so they could keep using the images.
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Pete Bobb

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With paper magazines using my photos without authorization, I ask double their normal rates. I will settle for 1.5 times their normal rates.
Anything less and it is time to call in the lawyers...
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Lenore

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Bravo :-)
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Renos Hadjikyriacou

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Personaly, i don`t think that prohibiting followers from voting will change anything and surely It won't make any difference, because, cheating as you think, does not happen.
If it happens so as you think, then every follower on Pixoto is a potential cheating candidate and this only, if he/she gets a duell where an image of the person they follow participates.Then follower must vote in a duell where that particular image from the person he/she follows participates. And then follower should also be able to identify it as such. How offen do you think this happens??
What about the images that winn in challenges that everybody knows? Here you don`t need any followers to recognize to whom those images belong because they are most of the times getting awards, which makes them popular!
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KIM CROWE

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I think there is cheating but I don't think it has to do with followers voting you down...I think the system is being manipulated in other ways.
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Renos Hadjikyriacou

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Maybe Kim, but the issue here is " suggest followers be prohibited from voting on photos of the person they follow." ....... and i don`t think that followers cheat or even care !
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KIM CROWE

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True...I follow because I like their work and I try to learn from them!
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi all, thank you for suggesting.

Here is what Jason wrote about this:

"The imageduel system does not display the photographers name when voting. It is possible that the user could vote on the image of somebody they know or follow - and therefore recognize the image but the impact of this is minimal because there are so many images on the site and we limit the number of times any one user can vote on an image. The average image with 200 duels has 160 unique voters."
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Pete Bobb

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But if someone has 5,000 followers studying their photos, isn't the chance that in the first 50 duels, that their photos are voted on by followers?
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Bridgette Rodriguez

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Pete Bobb, and if your suggested rule were to be implemented, then the 5000 followers would stop "following" that tog and still be able to see the photos of that tog on his/her account anyway and still vote for them. Just a slight bit more work for them (whoever they are or aren't :) ).
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Joyce Andersen

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perhaps the imageduel system does not display the NAME, but there are id numbers... and those can be searched and identified.... I don't trust this site is impregnable to hackers... and hackers sell their hacks
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Joyce Andersen

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it may also explain some of the other weird bugs showing up more and more in the threads... pics disappearing, numbers off, etc.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi Pete, 5000 followers are less then 2% of all Pixoto signups so chances are not that good that their photos are voted by theirs followers.

I hope this helps.
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Vibeke

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Have a look at my suggestion here;
http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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Tim Hall

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Hey all, I seem to have the opposite problem, which supports Jasenka's explanation...I follow folks because I like their choice of subject matter and talent for capturing it, so I want to see more of their work, and would love to compare it to other great photographer's photos, but I NEVER (not shouting, just emphasizing)...NEVER see my favorite member's pics in the duels, and I usually vote on a thousand duels a week, so I couldn't cheat anyone up or down even I wanted to.
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KIM CROWE

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I sent the report team(privately) two names that have the same images (multiple) one in color and black and white and are submitting under the same category. If they know to use different names and try to hide it then they are cheating. Nothing has been done.This is more about cheating than about following another photographer.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Kim, if you can please forward me e-mail to jasenka@pixoto.com you sent to report team about duplicate accounts I will investigate.
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RJ Photographics

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I must be different to others in here i follow people to see their photos and possibly learn from them I don't support them like a sports team . when i vote i look at the photos and choose the better one regardless of who took it .And I see photos that i know who took them that rarely even if I wanted to favour them It would be so little so rarely it would have no effect . i am here for the photos the thought of playing games and strategically voting did not occur to me until I read of it in here .

And I don't complain when my pics don't go well , I resubmit and if it continues to bomb I delete it because even if I love it it seems other hate it . So I take that as constructive criticism of my work and try to improve and doing that has help me a lot . getting other peoples opinion of my work was the reason i came in here
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Joyce Andersen

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RJ, that is a good attitude, but when an image that you love bombs here and you delete because it has had the unfortunate luck of being duelled with images that it should not have duelled against and lost, then this site is not doing you any favours.. you are being manipulated into changing your style into a lesser image. Sometimes (a lot of times) the voters are wrong. The first dozen votes are what counts, and I still believe there is cheating happening and votes are skewed so that a small part of the world is determining what is going to win those first few duels. As others have said, they have sold images that die here and if you let Pixoto voters steer you, you are rudderless. I would tell any photographer here, to yourself be true.
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RJ Photographics

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i am far from rudderless i don't delete the photos from my hard drive only from pixoto and i realise that photos that bomb here do in fact fo better elsewhere tight crops that are popular here get criticized on say the D800 page. I just adjust my style to suit the particular audience pixoto is a competition that is it a game so I learn the rules of that game and i play its just fun , or it used to be I don't post pix any more
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Joyce Andersen

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I agree RJ.... the fun has been sucked right out of this place. my comment about rudderless was not directed at you personally, but to all those others who think that a poor score here means they have bad photos... as you seem to know...that is not the case.
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Lenore

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Over the course of the time I've been here, I have taken a few breaks away from Pixoto -- the last one was longer than the others, a combination of being busy with my photographic endeavors, family events, new business opportunities and also because I felt it was time for a break. This forum was getting contentious and personal attacks were flying. It didn't involve me but I hated reading it all -- name-calling, digs at people's talent, etc. It was nasty. I ended up staying away for more than seven months. When all the yearly awards started popping up in my Inbox, I realized I wanted to dive in again. I had hoped it would be fun again. So far, it is. Mostly because I take it all with a grain of salt.

I recommend a break to anyone who starts to lose the fun. Hint: if you find yourself thinking about this place after you walk away from the computer, you're due for a Pixoto time-out :-)
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redwar

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Can we all agree on one thing. We are here because we want to be. Not because there is a gun to our heads or because someone is paying us to be on this site.

Now, I don't agree with some of the policies here. Nor do I agree that none of us should be limited to a max score of 700 which almost all of us know is our max

The question is why do we only make a max score of 700 and drop quickly down to what many here consider mediocrity? The answer is simple really if you think about it.

1. 800 Perfect execution. Perfect scene
2. 700 Croud pleaser kicks you out of the 800 roost
3. 600 Perfect execution and not so perfect scene
4. 500 Croud pleaser kicks you out of the 600 roost
5 400 Normal execution. Normal scene
6. 300 Croud pleaser kicks you out of the 400 roost
7. 200 Normal execution. Poor scene choice
8. 100 Croud pleaser kicks you out of the 200 roost

The top 200 gets paid to take professional images. The bottom 200 has a lot to learn

1. 600 You win local, regional and national photo contests
2. 500 You win local and sometimes regional contests
3 400 You win local contests
4. 300 You get runner up prizes

How do I know these things? I have thousands of bylines and pictures published throughout the world. I know what you all are capable of. You have to believe in yourself and not rely on Pixoto as your capability authority.
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Pete Bobb

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An interesting analysis.
I can't get a photo to stay above 650 on pixoto.
But I have sold photos to a couple British digital photography magazines as well as postcards to the Dutch Tourism Bureau (VVV).
I have a couple calendar sales, and an early one in a photography book (which barely cracks 400 on pixoto).
But my biggest money maker has been Wedding Photography.
But it is not enough for me to make a living working full-time as a photographer and have any money left-over to save for retirement.
Maybe I need to take my very first photography class to learn how to make photos that sell better...
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redwar

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I think you are a very gifted photographer. The only thing you need to do is kill the dead space in many of your images. How many lenses do you have and are you shooting full frame?
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Pete Bobb

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I use a full frame Canon when I am planning photography
Primes are 50mm f/1.2 'L' and 85mm f/1.8, primarily used for studio portraits.
Zooms include 28-135mm f/3.5 macro, 24-70mm f/2.8 'L' and 100-400mm f/4.5 'L'.
I also have a 500mm f/8 prime plus a 2x extender to turn it into a 1,000mm, but honestly, about all I can use that lens for is moon photos!
Even taking photos of the moon with the 1,000mm, the camera position needs to be readjusted in between shots as the moon moves across the sky and viewfinder!
At 500mm prime, I see a bird in the tree with my naked eye, and by the time I finish waving the lens around trying to find the bird, the bird decides to fly away!
For Weddings, my go-to lens is the 24-70mm f/2.8 'L' for its versatility in small low light chapels where flash is prohibited.
I also have an older cheap 75-300mm f/4-5.6 which is laughably soft compared to the 'L' glass! I haven't used that lens for several years now.
Nine of my top scoring twenty photos on pixoto were captured with a pocket camera which I always carry so I have a camera when needed.
I've learned I can't take a photo if I don't have a camera available!
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Pete Bobb

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I should add that the 28-135mm f/3.5 macro is probably my favorite 'walking around' lens because it can do a little bit of everything, but the 24-70mm f/2.8 'L' lens is the only lens which has earned me more cash than my entire kit would cost to replace.
Weddings pay well even though you only work Weddings on Saturdays.
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Johnny Thomas

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While your suggestion sounds logical, it is too easy to get around.
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PicksAutoMan

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Really like the idea. Although I follow only those photographers whose post striking images and those which are totally different. If the images of the photographers I follow won't come up in my image duels, I also start following those photographers who keep posting repetitive images from different angles, so I can save myself the pain of having to watch those boring images again and again.

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