How do you get a score of 6-700??

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  • Updated 9 years ago
  • Not a Problem
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All the leaderboard pictures have an image score of 6-700. My pictures get to 450-540 and stop with no option to re-duel them. How do you get to that score to get amongst the leaders?
Also,
it seems that most of the leading pictures in all categories I haven't seen!? They have these high scores but I don't get a vote in?? Others I have seen come up regularly are quite low scored in comparison.
How does this work?
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kris pate

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Posted 9 years ago

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AMontanaView

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Good question, Kris. I want to know, too.
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Michelle Meenawong

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you're right Kris, I don't see them in the duels as well. or very very rarely. I know the duels are not constant, they come in waves and I have asian time but I have a look at pixoto in the morning, afternoon, evening and a lot at night so I should see them some time
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Kris - to get a picture between 600 and 700 people have to consistently vote for your images over others. So in short the answer is - submit amazing photography that people love. Getting an image into the 600+ range is rare and is something to be very proud of.

The reason you don't see them in duels often is that there are very few of them so the probability of seeing one that you also saw on the leaderboard is very small. Keep in mind that at any given time on Pixoto there my be more than 30,000 images for the system to choose from.

We allocate duels to images that need more votes (there is a very complicated algorithm involved that determines this) so generally you're seeing newer images when voting.
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AMontanaView

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Very helpful comment. Thank you.
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kris pate

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Jason, if 600+ is a rare thing then how come ALL the leaders are this and more?
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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by definition the best and most "rare" images show up on top of the leaderboard. Keep in mind that we are getting 3-4000 images a day right now so on any leaderboard you are only seeing a fraction of the images.
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kris pate

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Hi Jason.

The pictures have to start at the bottom before they can get to the top spots which means they should be in more frequent duels before they get there!? Still strange how I don't see them work their way up when it is nearly all the top shots I am talking about.

My pictures don't change score up or down, they just sit with the same number after only being on the site for 2 days. Most have won more than half of their duels. I still don't understand how this work

For more than 30,000 images, I do see the same one's repeated a lot.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Yes - Images start at the bottom and work their way up. We are getting 4-5000 duels per hour so there is plenty of voting going on to get images to rise quickly.

I you would like me to take a look at some of the images you are talking about I can probably explain what is going on with them...
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Making Memories Photography

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We all know we start at the bottom the problem is we get to a point where duels stop and we have no chance of going up or down actually. The arrow for buying more duels is not available either. It just sits at the same score and duels forever.
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kris pate

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No thanks Jason. It's all good. I am sure they are there because they earned it. I will just keep submitting my pics and see if I can get mine up there in the running.
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Julie Hall

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When I started I had small goals for scoring. I have since upped my game and reached out for tips and tried to learn more about photography in general. I am currently stuck in the same rut as you number wise, but it is a good change from where I was. Your work is good. Keep trying and you will get there.
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kris pate

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Hi Julie.
Your comments and support are very much appreciated. I will keep trying. :)
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Making Memories Photography

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I have had the same problem, I reached 244 duels at a 683 score the first couple weeks and then the score was stalled at this number and has been left there with no chance to get to the 700's because the duels were stopped. I still don't understand how this works, but it sounded like he was saying pixoto stops the duels themselves, do employees vote and pick their favs? Should i resubmit, delete, how many are deleting?
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kris pate

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Most of my pictures are "stopped" with less that 100 duels!! Definately no chance of getting to the top so I am finishing up here as there is really no point of trying. My first pictures I entered made it into the top 20. Now I can't even get close!? With over 200 pictures submitted, very dissapointing.
Hope you all sort it out. I am going somewhere where it is fun!! Cheers.
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AMontanaView

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This has been my experience, too. I haven't posted in quite a while as I see no point it. I have been listening to others experiences and have come to the conclusion that this site is pretty much a waste of time. Disappointing.
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Michelle Meenawong

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Kris is right, I also never see the top pictures in my duels. I think maybe they start with 400-500 points the first minutes or what ever. On the other side many good pictures stops at around 500 in the first two days and then just don't move. It's very frustating and every week I think about quitting. At the beginning, we had an option to buy more duels but now, they're not paused so we don't have any option to have them move a little bit.
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Making Memories Photography

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This is the question no one can get an answer to. My stopped at 244 duels at 683 points and has been there for over two months, and friends and other photographers say they have never seen it in a duel, and some duels are the same people over and over. I think Pixoto picks the ones they want on this site, and I to have thought about quitting, but would like to get a real understanding of how it works. Not sure what their motives are here etc.
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kris pate

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9 out of 15 of my lastest pictures have been "stopped" with only 70 - 80 duels so I can't even get a look at a reasonable score with those numbers. 683 is a dream score for me as my highest ever is 609 when I started but now I barely can make 500.
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Making Memories Photography

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I am not going over 500 much either. New year and it gets stopped in the 500's don't understand why. The 683 was my highest last year and it was stopped after a couple of weeks of duels. I just want to understand how this works, it is frustrating and makes me angry to think some are given more exposure than others. If the public is choosing why limit the exposure?
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kris pate

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My highest was the same.
When the top players can enter 15 pictures and win 13 awards, there must be favouritism from where I am sitting.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Kris and MMP. A couple of thoughts:
- Once an image has gotten to the number of duels that other images with the same imagescore have gotten to - it stops being placed in duels. (MMP - that's why your image has sat for so long). The only way the image will get more duels is if we have an influx of votes without a coresponding increase in image submissions. We are actually having the opposite behavior right now. Image submission are growing much faster than duels. So images that got a lot of images before won't get any more until the situation reverses itself.

- The number of duels an image gets is determined by it's performance during the first 50 or so duels. If the image wins a lot - it will get more duels.

- ImageScore changes much more rapidly at first and after 100 duels only moves a little bit with each additional duel after that. This is the refinement period.

- if your goal is to get your image to move significantly in imagescore then the best/only way is to resubmit the image and try again (just click the resubmit button). This is because the first 30 duels are the most important in determining imagescore. Once you're past 50 duels - movement will be very small.

- Keep in mind that many photographers who might have 15 images and 13 awards have submitted other images which they have deleted because they didn't do well.

- Lastly - we have NO INFLUENCE over the scores (other than we set up the algorithms in first place). If you see an image that has 200 duels - it mostly likely has been voted on by almost 200 different people.
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AMontanaView

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Now this is a good description of how it works. Very helpful to me.
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Making Memories Photography

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OK, very good explanation, now tell me since the year of 2011 is over what happens if I delete all of 2011...does it have to stay there to keep awards. I was told to delete and resubmit once before and lost everything. Don't want to make that mistake again.
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kris pate

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Explanation accepted. Thank You Jason, very much for taking the time to explain. I will stick around for a bit longer and see how it goes. Cheers.
I am also interested in your reply for MMP's question of deleting past submissions and losing their rewards. I haven't got many so I definately don't wish to lose them. :)
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Yes - if you resubmit you will lose any awards and points. You can't have your cake and eat it too ;)
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Michelle Meenawong

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I think the "resubmit" option is not bad. At least I tried this morning with an image which had 289 points and didn't move. After resubmitting this one, it gets already 439 points !!!!
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Making Memories Photography

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I also noticed that in image duels you will see a flower in category plants and flowers and a beautiful waterscape against it. I of course vote for flower due to waterscape is in WRONG category. This may give a advantage to the waterscape since it is better, going against a pic that is in the correct category but not as good as waterscape, this could be one of the problems. In food it was a great pic of food but the one dueling against it was people. what gives with this, I will always vote for the one in the correct category.
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You can report an image if you think it is misscategorized and we will take a look.
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Making Memories Photography

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Can not, unless i write down everything, when you are in image duel you vote and the picture moves on. It would take a lot of time to do this, but I will try.
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ghislain vancampenhoudt

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I begin to think that getting a high image score becomes more and more a question of being lucky and less of submitting pictures with a 'wow !' impact. Last weeks there is a huge inflow of new images - most of them of high photographic quality - so the competition gets harder. Normally one would expect to see the global images scores go down but what happens is the opposite : we now see a number scores of +700 as we 've never seen before. It is a mystery to mer what it takes to get there is such a short time...
Yesterday I submitted an image that climbed to 500 in almost no time and then the usual '500-break' arrives without possibility to get new votes. So what can you possibly do to give that image a boost so it can get higher -- maybe towards 700 ?
Another image got stuck shortly after submission and buying more votes did not help a lot.. I decided to resubmit and in no time it reached the 'break-point' of 500 and for the moment (one day later) it is at 545.
The score you get looks more and more like a lottery while the essential (the quailty of the image) remains unchanged...
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Julie Hall

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I have to agree with all of this. When I started I barely made it to 500, now after getting a couple 20% awards, I am back down to never making it up there again. I have a few in the 500's, but most of mine stop in the 400's now. I do not think I have the best photography out there, but I know my images are better than some that have climbed higher and there is nothing i can do about it. For a while I was unpausing everyones' images around mine, with the less duels. I figured if I could get them up to me in duels we could have some fair duels and I would either move up or down..but nothing happens. Sometimes I think that admin doesn't like my shots and they remove them from the battles...but who knows. What i do know is that this site has now convinced me that I have ZERO talent as a photographer and will never take this anywhere as a career. People just do not like my stuff.
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Making Memories Photography

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What is an ImageScore?
ImageScore is generated from our proprietary algorithms and is meant to summarize how well the image has done against other images in its category and subcategory. Once an image has competed in sufficient duels, a higher score will naturally mean a higher perceived quality. ImageScore is recalculated at the end of every ImageDuel. Factors that determine how much ImageScore changes include the number of ImageDuels completed and the relative strength of the opponent.

Our goal is not to find the relative position of all images but instead to find the relative position of the BEST images. It is not important to us whether an image rates 50 or 51 out of 100. We really only want to put that image in the right area of the Leaderboard and will stop dueling (“pause”) images that are not statistically likely to reach the top 10%. By contrast it is important that we understand whether an image ranks number 3 or 4 out of 100 and will use a disproportionate number of ImageDuels to determine this.

Important Note: ImageScores are calculated only within categories and subcategories and cannot be compared across categories. For example a photo with an ImageScore of 650 in Wedding is NOT by definition better than an image with a score of 600 in Landscape & Nature.
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Julie Hall

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What are you trying to say with this? Are you saying that here it is in writing that admin overrides what they like or don't like? So possibly my shots are not being voted down by the public but just a few guys sitting in a room picking what they like?
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Making Memories Photography

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This is Pixoto's rules on their site. This explains how it works, go to Pixoto how it works, I just copied and pasted this from their site.
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Making Memories Photography

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Are images on the top of the Leaderboard really the best?
We are the first to acknowledge that image quality is based on individual preference. It’s possible that you may hate an image that your friend loves. However, images that rise to the top of the Leaderboard are the ones that our users in aggregate like the most. In looking at the results of our ImageDuels we have found that people tend to vote fairly consistently when images are of obviously different quality levels. Images that are much closer in quality tend to have split opinions. So the “number one” image may be only a small fraction better than the “number two” image.

You should also note that images start at the bottom of the Leaderboard with an ImageScore of zero. Images must work their way up the Leaderboard based on their performance and this can take several days to stabilize.

How do you decide what images I see when I play ImageDuel?
Images are matched against other images based on a proprietary algorithm . Images with the least number of duels generally appear more often than those with larger numbers. If an image performs poorly in its first few duels its chance of being matched again drops significantly. By contrast images that are faring well in the duels will be displayed more often.
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Making Memories Photography

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Why do images with different win/loss ratios have the same ImageScore?
Win/Loss ratios are not a good indicator of ImageScore. We strive to keep the win/loss ratio as close to 50% as possible by pairing images with other images that we think might be close in quality (i.e. great images with great images, bad images against bad images, etc). While sometimes it is necessary to play images against images that are of vastly different quality, it is not our preferred method. To understand more about how ImageScores are calculated – read “What is an ImageScore” above.
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Julie Hall

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hmmmm "we strive, we think.....our method.....hmmm
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Making Memories Photography

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Why is my image “Paused”?

Images get paused if they are statistically unlikely to move up to the top 10% of all images (approximately 615 ImageScore). Sometimes we determine this within this within 6 duels sometimes it takes 100. The key is that in order to provide good clarity into which images are in the top 10 we must vote the best images a lot. With a limited amount of duels available to us the best way to accomplish this is by pausing images once we’ve determined that they are not likely to get near the top. We use statistics so by definition we are not 100% confident that the image should be paused and so to address this issue we added the “get more votes” feature (the “play” button on the leaderboards). Under certain circumstances Paused images may still be placed in to duels and may be unpaused automatically.
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Julie Hall

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sounds like unfair voting practices. This is like having the whole country vote for a leader and then have the janitor come in and say ..."you know what, I like Bozo the clown...he will be our leader." Basically we can post and vote all we want, but this is a personal site used by admin for their personal use. The sad part is, I really wanted to know how my images were thought of publicy and now I will never know.
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Making Memories Photography

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Julie this link is confusing http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra... Stats show 556 score, 38 wins, 46 losses 84 duels, and it is in first place under portraits/family. It is all very confussing and does look like pictures are picked from admin.
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Julie Hall

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That is how I feel. And I hate that I feel that way , I had such high hopes for a site where I could get an unbiased opinion not based on my personality. I am starting to wonder if this whole site was built just so they can find great images to sell as the profit margin on photography is very high. Here they can make millions with so many people submitting shots for them to sell. I guess mine are not worth selling. Like I said before, I know I do not have the best shots of all, but some of the winners are just mind boggling.
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Making Memories Photography

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I don't need them to sell my work, I sell quite well here and on other sites. If they sell they have to have your permission and pay you for it.
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Julie Hall

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I don't need them to sell my work either. I wish we were wrong, but I don't think we are.
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Making Memories Photography

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I was told to report images that are in wrong categories, when I image duel I see a flower in plants and flowers against a waterscape, mind you a beautiful waterscape, giving the waterscape a advantage, I myself look at the categories and vote against the waterscape since it is in wrong category. I tried to report image as I was told by admin and it does not work. It does not allow me to report. Some friends have told me copyright infringement is taking place as well I am still investigating.
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Julie and MMP. I just want to assure you that we DO NOT allow our personal opinions to effect the voting or leaderboards. The average image that has 100 votes has over 90 individual people who have voted on it. With between 3 and 4000 images being submitted per day we can't even look at all the images, never-the-less decide which ones are best.
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Uthpala Kuruppuarachchi

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Even though im late, i do agree with kris
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Kamalena Sutton

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Jason, How come my images stop at almost 400 and wont let me resubmit them in a dual?
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Kamalena - by resubmit do you mean the "resubmit" link isn't working?

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