Encourage Neutral Voting !

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  • Updated 4 years ago
When we vote, we get to see at least some images that we are familiar with or from the togs we're familiar with.. So we do have a tendency to vote for them naturally.

We're never given our own images to vote. Similarly if we're not given the images from the photographers we 'follow' or the images we've already 'favorite'd, I feel the voting will be neutral..

Similarly it's better not to reveal the leadership table for the ''contests'' till the voting is over. Those who have entered will have a tendency to keep checking the leader table and that might influence them..

Just my suggestions.. Would like to have your opinions..

Happy Pixoting !!
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Posted 4 years ago

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terisue53

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Anoop, that's a great idea to me.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hello Anoop, it is stated on our rules page: http://www.pixoto.com/photography-com...

"If you are voting and you know whose image is in the duel – YOU ARE BIASED – skip the duel!"

So if you see image you recognize and you know whose image it is, we instruct you to skip duel.

I hope this helps.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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I know this rule Jesenka.. But what about the pattern really happening?! This 'voting as per your consciousness' is already hurting many badly ...

Is there any technical hitch in implementing what we've suggested?
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Anoop, I'm sorry but we can't disclose system in which images are paired up and shown to users - it is done by Pixoto proprietary algorithms.
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Joyce Andersen

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is that double speak for ... we already have decided who's pics will win and get monetary rewards? perhaps some of these people that win over and over are investors? 'conspiracy theorists unite!'
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Haha! Jesenka will not respond to our reading between the lines, Joyce!
She is too well experienced!

Jesenka, I'm not asking you to disclose your pairing systems nor the algorithms. But was just wondering whether we could avoid cross voting between friends as the way it is happening now. A group of togs joining together in promoting one another. Some maintain many accounts and effect the same results,

When we look at the duel history, we can sense that there is definitely something beyond 'poor aesthetic sense' or judgment.

No issues if Pixoto is not willing to keep transforming in tune with the vibrant changes happening all around.. Many have started to get the feel that the current system of dueling is becoming redundant and ineffective to promote the right images.

I thought to share a seemingly harmless idea to improve the voting experience. But if the Management thinks it is hurting their business interests, which they only are aware about, I have no issues..

Have a great time!
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi Anoop, we have ways to prevent users to influence on imagescore of fiends and family images and as you know we also have ways to flag users who vote in a way that is not appropriate (in any way) and prevent them from future voting.

I hope this helps.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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This helps Jesenka if you're fully convinced about its functional efficiency..
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Jesenka, so you're of the opinion that the current voting system is perfect? Well if you do an opinion poll among the most frequent users of this forum, you may get some other version of it...
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi Anoop, as user that is also using this site as any other users, I can say that I didn't find similar voting system online - other systems usually are based on knowing other person - the much people you know on site the highest your image will score. This is completely different, even if you don't know anyone, if you image is really good it can get to the top of the leadearboard. In my opinion as a user there is not such thing as perfect voting system, but with this system and some additional features (like voting flags, monitoring voting and restricting skipping) this is the only system that I think is good.
People see differently art and photography - one image can get standing ovation in one bunch of people looking at it, while completely different people would not even look at it twice. If I believe in my image and it is tanking bad (has low score) I would just assume that users voting for it (or rather against it) just doesn't like that sort of images - so I would resubmit and wait for users who might appreciate my work.
I once took a look at image that very popular photographer in my country took, and my first opinion was - If I took that image I would just delete it from card as photo gone bad - however that photographer got highly prestigious award for it.

I'm sorry for long text, I just wanted to explain my opinion as fellow user :)
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Thanks Jesenka.. Would definitely appreciate this. And I agree that Pixoto has got a definite edge in this count over other sites.. But don't you think our suggestions can improve the scene a bit more as a fellow tog? Not intended to argue any case but joining your open minded discussion..

Thank you very much for your personal touch to this message!
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi Anoop, any suggestion is more then welcome :)
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Thank You Jesenka!
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terisue53

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Ok, let's say that we know whose submission that are entered in booths duels, skipping duels too many times will get you penalties.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi Terry, I'm not sure what penalties you get for skipping too many duels, can you please clarify this?

I know that you can skip 3 duels one after another, then you just need to close voting screen and you can open it again - there is no penalty.
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terisue53

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Oh, ok. That's what I was referring to, the skipping duels. You get a message saying you can vote for 3 days. Maybe I'm confusing the same with voting too fast, right?
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terisue53

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Sorry meant to say, can't vote for 3 days or so many hours.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Why a restriction on skipping duels even after 3 consecutive ones?Is Pixoto losing something if we skip? Just an academic interest..
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Hi Terry, yes, you are confusing voting ban with skipping 3 duels - for skipping 3 duels there is no penalty.

Anoop, if images you are presented with in a duel do not belong to anyone you know, you should be able to select which one is better. People would just skip duels until they are presented with images they want to vote and that is something we don't want - similar as to allowing user to vote just for one or two category - meaning too much influence in categories from one user (or several users). So we introduced that user can skip only 3 times then he either needs to vote or to close voting window.

I hope this helps.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Well.. that sounds logical Jesenka.. This really helps!
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terisue53

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That helps and thanks Jasenka. I did have confused.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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''allowing user to vote just for one or two category - meaning too much influence in categories from one user (or several users).''

I was wondering on second thoughts, how one can have too much influence in any category this way? If I take a 100 duels, and skip 90 out of them, I'm spending the same amount of time I will take for having 100 genuine votes.. So I cannot save on the time factor in favor of a particular category.

The number of duels I may get from any category in a particular voting session will not change even if I choose to skip or vote..

Am I right Jesenka or am I missing something here?
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Anoop, if you vote you will have to vote with care or risk your account being flagged and voting and banned for certain amount of time. If you skip you just click until you get category you want to vote - last one is behavior we do not encourage, hence can not skip more then 3 times.
If you only cast your voted in one category you would have more influence then user who spreads his voted across categories.

I hope this helps.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Jesenka, I'm sorry to say that your argument is practically illogical.. I've been voting for long and I have never been flagged.. And I do never have such a pressure while voting..And I skip only rarely..

And how anybody can exert that extra influence if he is voting for the same no. of times as others do even while he is skipping at will ?

Skipping more than thrice does not make any difference to any of the results. That's my point of contest.. And your explanation really does not help in this count still Jesenka..

It could really be my lack of understanding too..
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Am I to assume that there is some logic to what i conceived?
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Shooting America

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Just curious. What really is "neutral voting"? With regards to any subjective voting, the perception of fairness or neutrality is subjective. Anoop seems to think that the voting is grievously unfair. But what's fair in a contest or in life in general anyway?

I do agree that voters' tastes leave much to be desired, but how can one measure the level of tastelessness of another's vote compared to one's own?

And if there's nepotistic or nefarious voting, how can anyone prove it?

My suggestion is enjoy the game of Pixoto for what it is. If you feel that your photos are unjustly judged, there are so many other photo rating/judging sites around.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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I agree with you.. People do have different aesthetics and I do not have any issue with it.. What leaves a bad taste is the fact that some votes are 'for their friends or group buddy' irrespective of the quality of their image. Mutual voting like this is happening as you also know. This leaves a 'normal single' member frustrated..

And Pixoto is very much an enjoyable site. And I was not whining about it. I was sharing just an idea to better it if possible. So suggestions to switch to other sites may be a bit irrelevant in this case..

Thank you very much for joining the discussion. I had always respected your responses to discussions.
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terisue53

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Anoop, I don't profess to be a great photographer, but I just don't understand where the first points are derived from. I vote in duels and if I even think the image is mine, if the other is better, I will vote it. I am guilty of voting my friend's image and images, which I know we're not suppose to, but I vote best images for the category. But the first points that we get when we upload new images are beyond me, some sour points and some good scoring points. Where in the world does these points come from. Is someone sitting behind a computer screen looking at them, deciding a score ratio or, are they automatic? Sometimes I am bewildered!
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Anoop Namboothiri

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I can understand Terry.. It can be frustrating..
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Shooting America

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What satisfaction can anyone derive from bogus scores produced by up-votes from family and friends except maybe monetary rewards?

I observed the same members following up on their prizes for very identical shots of flowers for example. Pixoto has become a cash cow for these few.
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Anoop Namboothiri

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Very true! The repetitive images of the same kind is the symptom of the big malady! But Pixoto could have reformed this too if they wanted. It seems that they also want it this way..

As you said, let us enjoy our ride and forget about image scores or awards.. Let the careerists maintain their lobbies or voting groups and have it their way. May be the genuine appreciation from a fellow tog could inspire us more!!

Thank you Shooting America( name withheld?) for inspiring me with another way of looking at it!

Have a beautiful day!
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Annette Flottwell

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Yes, I can see some really fishy things going on. Let me say I posted a picture which has been published 3 times in different countries, is a really well set up architectural shot which did also really well on 500px, here it looses against shots that leave a lot to be desired or are simply HDR or Topaz hocus pocus.

This is extremely frustrating and it dosen ́t only happen to me. I voted and commented the other day on a really beautiful, well composed, naturally coloured river evening scene.
the guy thanked me profusely for my comment and only the I spotted to by utmost bewilderment that his picture had some 200 odd points.

How come that the digital hocus pocus with totally exaggerated colours and deformated skies always wins here? I can ́t recall any other site.
yes it can be relaxing and playful to go to pixoto for a while. But yes, we should be abe to
- see the titles (which BTW shouldn ́t be stripped whilst uploading)
- opt out of categories we really don ́t feel qualified to vote for. In my case nudes and instagram and most of all HDR
(I remember reading a guy here who said he doesn ́t like picture where everything is not in focus in closeups) aiiiiie that hurt

- have the option BOTH or NONE. If I get to choose from to nearly identical pics from obviously the same person what is the point? or two excellent ones or twice utter rubbish

or last but not least give 1-5 points to any image.

Last but not least, we should ENCOURAGE constructive criticism and photographic skill, NOT Filtering and group voting as Anoop rightly points out.
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Jasenka, Official Rep

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Thank you for suggestions Annette.

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