Condition to pause photo from ImageDuel

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I think you should redefine solution regarding pausing a photo from ImageDuel. I've noticed that you pause photo after only 7 duel if phot get 3 won and 4 Lost.
It would be more realistic if you minimize number of duel to lets say 50 or 100 duels before pausing. Small number of duels before pausing could not get real value on any photo and 50 or 100 duels would give much more quality in evaluating each photo simply because it is easily happened that first 3 or 4 people in row don't like certain photo that has more more quality then lots of photo for which first few voters chose win,
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Ljerka Gereš

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Posted 9 years ago

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Michelle Meenawong

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I downloaded some pictures and observed what happen. I could see that the duel only works for a few minutes and then, it;s just paused. And it keeps like this since then. How long do you put the pictures on duel. I understand it's just for a few minutes. How is it really????
thanks for your answer

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
duel.
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Justin Kifer, Official Rep

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Our algorithm for matching and pausing in ImageDuels is complex and varies depending on a variety of circumstances. It is possible to be paused after just 4 ImageDuels or after many more.

We pause images that are statistically unlikely to be the best of their category, but if you feel your image (or anyone else's that you come across on Pixoto) is a great image that was just mistakenly paused, you can click the Play icon on the Image Leader Board or "Get more votes" link on the ImageDetail page to put it back in rotation.

We have found that in almost all cases, if an image was paused by our algorithm and we unpause it -- it does not wind up at the top of the Leader Board and gets paused again after a number of losses. This is obviously not always the case and some images do get paused early. We try to watch for these sorts of anomalies and the community does as well.

It is important that we find the best images efficiently and therefore we cannot allocate 50 - 100 votes to every image. There wouldn't be nearly enough ImageDuels to go around if that were the case. What we strive for is to quickly identify the best images and then give those the bulk of the ImageDuels in order to determine the most appropriate rank among them.

This is not perfect and we are constantly working to improve the experience on Pixoto. We are actually working on some improvements to all of this right now.

Thanks for your feedback!
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Lady Ashly

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What is the Play icon? I'd like to unpause some images so they can get more duels but can't figure out how to do it. Thanks for your help.
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Justin Kifer, Official Rep

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If you click the Play icon, you should see an overlay popup on your screen. You will then be prompted to pay 5 credits (you earn a credit for each ImageDuel you perform) to unpause the image. That image will then be dueled based on the information in the overlay.

What happens when you click the Play icon?
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Jeremy Williams

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you pay 5 credits to get it back in play! But if these guys are the ones pausing it, as soon as it plays 3-5 more times they tend to like to pause it again even if it has wins.
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Lady Ashly

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Right. I did that before for an image I wanted to resubmit but now I don't see the option anymore. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place? What does the play icon look like?? Thanks!!!
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Justin Kifer, Official Rep

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The Play icon looks like a Play button on a MP3 or DVD player. It is a triangle that is pointing to the right. In addition, you should see a "Get more votes" link under the ImageDuel stats on an image detail page. Either of these options will allow you to unpause an image. You will only see these if the image is currently paused. If it is not, it does not need your help!

Let me know if that works.
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Sasha Ivanovic

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I don't think you should change your system of stopping images that perform poorly. First, in my experience it's mostly true that my photographs that are not so good are stopped early and my better ones keep on dueling.

Second, if you want your image to keep on dueling, just keep on clicking on "get more votes" until you come up to 100 or more votes and you get proper feedback. That also makes players active in voting, because you have to vote in other to get points to pay for more of your image dueling. If you give everybody 50 or 100 votes, less people with vote in image duel. If you do not see "get more votes" link, it means your image is still dueling.

Of course, new images will get more attention then older good ones that have many votes, because after some time they become more of a way to measure new ones and their relative position on all time best list. Thanks!
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Justin Kifer, Official Rep

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Wow Sasha!! I couldn't have said it better myself and I'm the Chief Product Officer. Thanks for the great feedback!!
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Lady Ashly

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GREAT!!!! THANKS SO MUCH!!!! :)
what a wonderful site full of great people. I'm so excited to have discovered this.
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javier barras

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I am curious if a paused photo is ever re-entered in image duel by the website.
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Jeremy Williams

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They'd have to in order to be paused again. I've unpaused mine and seen new scores on them... so the answer would be yes...
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Viraj Nagar

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I noticed that for a lot of my images they were paused after 3 duels with 2 losses and 1 win. Moreover those 2 losses were from the same image. Granted that it might not be better from that image but it still might stand a chance to find itself a bit higher on the leaderboard than it deserves after pausing.
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Ken Danieli

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That's right. But the relative position of images not at the top isn't resolved by this process (even though leaderboards sort of suggest that they would be)...the objective is just to rapidly identify the top images and then refine the relative positions of only the top competitors.
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Kara Brothers

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I have to agree with the original poster. I submitted this portrait this morning...
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
into the Portraits/Men category.

I checked less than 12 hours later and it had been paused with less than 10 duels. I could understand if it had been a snapshot, or there were other things that made it look anything less than professional, but it happens to be what many in quite a few photography communities I'm in, consider some of my best portrait work.

I've unpaused it no less than three times in the last two hours, and it continues to rise considerably in points and ranking. That right there is proof that your algorithm isn't working quite the way you think it is.

I have other images that have been paused as well today, after only a few minutes. All but one have had a better than 50% win ratio, and that ratio continues to improve each time I unpause them.

I don't know, maybe I just joined on a freak day, when something wasn't working right. It just doesn't seem quite right to me that images that aren't doing really poorly, are being taken out of the queue before they even get a chance to be seen.
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Kara Brothers

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Another example :
http://www.pixoto.com/images-photogra...
Paused at 10 duels with 7 wins. By my calculations, that's a 70% win in only 10 duels. How is that statistically unlikely to be the best in its category?
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Sasha Ivanovic

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Hi Kara! I understand what you are saying because I had same "problem" in the beginning.

Truth to be told, none of my images that were paused early managed to get into the top 10% of its category. Yes, many of them managed to collect respectable number of points (between 500 to 600 points) but never finished as one of the best.

When you publish your image Pixoto (as far as I could notice) first duels your image with lower ranking images and if you win you get harder and harder "opponents". Then, as you win and lose against higher quality images, it will determine the number of points your image collected. There are also some other things that are in play.

For example, your image with 10 duels and 7 wins is great, but what happened is that he lost 3 times in a row (which is probably one of the signs for pixoto algorithm to pause the image).

The fact is that I, as a player, accepted the fact that I have to take care of my images getting decent exposure. So if its paused just go to get more votes until you satisfied with the number of duels you image has. I have also noticed that many of my photos have different success rate at different time zones. E.g. when its day in USA or Europe I get different response to my image, than during the day in Asia and middle East.

Best luck!
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Kara Brothers

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Thanks for the insight, Sasha :)
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Justin Kifer, Official Rep

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Hey Kara,

I see your image now has 74 Duels and is currently ranked 24 in it's subcategory for last week. I assume you unpaused the image. Did you have to unpause it more than once?

Thanks!

Justin
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Kara Brothers

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Justin, yes, I had to unpause all of them several times. As of right now, I think four are still active.
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Bryan Rasmussen

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I'm glad that the Pixoto staff is always looking to improve things. I agree that it's not perfect, but I'd be happy with things even if no more improvements were made. This is a great site. Having said that, here is my experience with the pausing issue (and a suggestion): I personally have MANY photos that have won awards where I have had to unpause them SEVERAL times (I'm currently the #2 player in the travel category). I don't think that each photo needs 50-100 votes before being paused. I agree, that is way too many and would clog up the voting on other photos. However, I doubt that any algorithm could predict winners with much accuracy if using a small sample size of votes. Statistics just don't work that way. I don't mind the need to unpause photos (I need some way to use my credits). But the system could be improved. For example, if a photo is unpaused, you should take the most recent voting history into account so that the photo isn't re-paused again after winning 3/4 or 4/4 times. Just a thought.
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Ken Danieli

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To be clear, Bryan, are you reporting that you have unpaused several of your photos, several times each, and that some of them went on to win awards? If so, how often has this happened?
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Bryan Rasmussen

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Absolutely. Probably with 8 or 9 of my photos (I have only uploaded 40 so far).
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Ken Danieli

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Do you have a few examples so that they can look into the history?
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Bryan Rasmussen

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I did this already on a post that I started before I found this one.

http://community.pixoto.com/pixoto/to...
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Bryan Rasmussen

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On the other side of the coin, I have had several photos that I unpaused several times hoping that they would do well. They did not make the cut and I ended up deleting them. So the system does its job well. Just thought I'd make a suggestion for a slight improvement.
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Ken Danieli

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If you had 8 images that you could unpause all the way to awards, then something's going wrong.
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Justin Benson

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I have noticed this often too. I think that the images, need to run for 24 hours before they are paused. They don't need 100 votes, but I think rather, they should get their 10 votes but they should be spaced out over 24 hours. Often, I post an image, and its paused within 1 hour. When I wake up the next morning, its got 500-600 points. So I think it would be a better judge if the first duels were spaced over 24 hours, so that different users can duel them. What i find is that people who are either "cheating" (voting down good images for their own good) or inexperienced at viewing art/photos (typically the ones who vote for puppies instead of dogs, even though the dog photo was technically a better photo). It happens quite often, and I have actually learned to just not care if an image gets paused because usually overnight they pick back up. Sometimes, they dont, but its understandable why. But sometimes, a great photo goes nowhere fast, then sometimes by luck they get voted on and go up, but sometimes, they dont and you have to unpause them multiple times till the climb up. I think it would be wise to space the duels out to get a better gauge of the photo. It could potentially solve many of the problems people have with getting paused even if its a stunning image.

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