Are images on the top of the leaderboard really the best?

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  • Updated 8 years ago
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Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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Posted 9 years ago

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Photo of Jason Kiefer

Jason Kiefer, Official Rep

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We are the first to acknowledge that image quality is based on individual preference. It’s possible that you may hate an image that I love. That said, images that rise to the top of the leaderboard are the ones that our users in aggregate like the most. In looking at the results of our ImageDuels we have found that people tend to vote fairly consistently when images are of obviously different quality levels. Images that are much closer in quality tend to have very split opinions. So the “number one” image may be only a small fraction better (based, again, on the aggregate perception) than the “number two” image.

You should also note that images start at the bottom of the leaderboard with an ImageScore of zero. Images then work their way up the leaderboard based on their performance and this can take several days to stabilize.
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Didou David

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salut
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Ms C

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I don't have any problem with images winning that I may have a 'different individual preference' of.........but when images place high with obvious flaws...especially ones that could have been easily corrected....this I do take offense with.
Such as these:

http://www.pixoto.com/images-hotograp...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-hotograp...

http://www.pixoto.com/images-hotograp...
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Julie Hall

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Thanks for posting those...they are gorgeous. You may want to consider glasses though, your description sounds negative and I would think for these shots it would be a little more on the positive side.
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Nelson Teixeira

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The background on the 3rd one was obviously photoshoped. You can easily tell, because she forgot to erase the black parts where the steams intersect... :-P
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Ms C

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First Shirley, they aren't the same image...the lighting was different, look close.
As to your images.....
In general, the backgrounds look very unnatural. It looks like the flowers were "masked" and then the backgrounds were blurred to imitate a narrow DOF. That background replacement technique is much less desirable and less eye-pleasing than images which are truly a result of narrow depth-of-field and quality glass.
The first one you didn't even bother to take care of the line running down the right side of the image.
The 2nd one, the marks around the flower fronds.......?
The 3rd one......the dark spots between the stems........?
I'm simply saying, if you want to be a top notch photog, which I do believe you are capable of..........clean up your images before entering.
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Janette Fraser

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Shirley - please grow up. This is a site for professionals, or aspiring amateurs. You should be thanking Mrs C for her constructive criticism and use it to improve. By commenting publically - Mrs C has also given the rest of us the chance to watch for obvious flaws in our own images - and it's something I personally encourage people to do on Pixoto.

Constructive criticism should not be snubbed like this, and you're in wrong here lady.
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Julie Hall

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no you are wrong. that was an attack, not constructive criticism
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Kelli Deaver Lauck

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@ Janette - First - I don't know you - and don't really care to - however you are the one out of line here...you do not know the history between these two women....This is a site for professionals and aspiring amateurs - you are correct and you have no idea who it is you are directing this statement at. Personally I believe Ms. C was out of line for singling someone out - that's unprofessional - and as i said - IF you knew the history between these two - it was also a personal jab that was uncalled for and unnecessary. Had Ms. C singled out YOUR images, i'm quite sure your opinion would probably be different.

So, be careful who you tell to grow up. This is the kind of unnecessary BS that needs to be left OUT of sites such as this - This is the kind of thing that leaves a very bad taste with others and brings the sites like this DOWN and make it unpleasant to participate.
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Julie Hall

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I agree 30000%~!
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Janette Fraser

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Kelli - before I was a photographer, I was a photo editor, and then a magazine editor - i.e. - a person who BUYS photographs. I don't need to know the personal history here to recognise a Tog with a thin skin who is unable to take constructive criticism from her peers.

And no - if Mrs C had singled out MY images I would have thanked her, because I have always learned and progressed in whatever career I have chosen by listening to Constructive Criticism and by not allowing my ego to interfere with my Will.

The ability to take, absorb, and learn from constructive criticism from one's peers and superiors is important to learn Kelli - and it's something I was taught while still in school from those that brought their experience in the industry into the classroom. Professional buyers don't give a flying one about the photographers or designers ego when it comes to choosing a shot, and so - if you want to be successful in the future, I suggest that you stop treating this as a fraternal buddy club, and use the great and talented Togs here to actively seek constructive criticism.

You obviously feel bad for Shirley because you have not learned yet to not get ego invested in your work dear. Love what you do - but don't get pissy if people find fault and expect you to do better. If you weren't capable of doing better in the eyes of your critics - then they won't bother commenting at all.

Which would you honestly prefer?
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Julie Hall

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She doesn't work for you and your are not her editor. This site is for amatuers and you have NO RIGHT to criticize. No one even asked for your ignorant and pompass opinion.
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Shirley Mangini

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Janette, I do not want to start a war with you, Kelli or Linda. What Kelli says is true, Linda dislikes me from another site, and she did target my images for that reason. I don't mind constructive criticism, but she could have just as easily sent me a comment on those images if she truly wanted to help rather than bring them out on the forum, I found that rather petty and responded to that, certainly not the the criticism. I think you jumped in without prior knowledge, and attacked me without merit. Can we just let it go and move on?
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Julie Hall

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i like your shots.
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Janette Fraser

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Shirley - I really do not care. I'm an editor before I am a woman and these silly 'reindeer games' are beneath me.

You could not start a war with me if you tried.

What I would like to see here is you openly acknowledging that you have the faults with your photographs as Mrs C pointed out to you, because if you can't take constructive criticism (putting my Editor hat on here) then I wouldn't be interested in putting on my book as I can't help you improve and therefore - get the best from you as a Tog I'm working with.

Now do you understand?

As an Ed I want to say - 'Great Shot! Like it! BUT you have X, Y, and Z wrong with it - change it and come back to me'. I haven't got time for attitude. Yet I want to buy a little cheaply amongst the up and coming set, and help them develop. That way - everyone wins. You dig?
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Julie Hall

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i do not like you. you are a snob and you are mean and probably only have assholes for friends.
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Pat Hartley

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good grief Janette you are full of your own self importance - clearly there are ways of giving a critique - some good and some bad - your example starts with a positive first - the critique given previously was unsolicited and purely negative - you dig.
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Janette Fraser

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Exactly what difference does it make if someone sends you public or private criticism? Your photo's are in the public domain? If you keep them private them you can expect to only receive private constructive criticism.

And Pat - check your projections at the door. I don't always offer criticism with a bit of an ego cushion for the thin skinned. Some peeps take that as a complement.
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Julie Hall

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please don't compliment my work..it is none of your snotty business!
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Ms C

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In another thread titled 'voting for bad images' I said this:

"Ms C
Ms C 10 days ago
Darrin, I'm inclined to agree with you. I have no problem with an image beating another when it's simply a matter of opinion or taste, and both images have merit. But when there are technical errors and sloppy editing......then it's just plain wrong.
I do feel that there are some here that have figured out how to 'game' the system.
Because the images that I have issues with are currently in the lead, I will not post them. ....for fear of appearing like I have a case of 'sour grapes'........
but should they win...........I will."

When several of these images did win, I posted them. I have NO problem with Shirley M....only her images. I have offered comments before at another site, that have not been taken in the spirit they were intended. I have also offered a few 'Nice job!'s.....as I do now with her image of tulips....it's superb.

This has all been blown out of proportion.
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Ms C

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In another thread titled 'voting for bad images' I said this:

"Ms C
Ms C 10 days ago
Darrin, I'm inclined to agree with you. I have no problem with an image beating another when it's simply a matter of opinion or taste, and both images have merit. But when there are technical errors and sloppy editing......then it's just plain wrong.
I do feel that there are some here that have figured out how to 'game' the system.
Because the images that I have issues with are currently in the lead, I will not post them. ....for fear of appearing like I have a case of 'sour grapes'........
but should they win...........I will."

When several of these images did win, I posted them. I have NO problem with Shirley M....only her images. I have offered comments before at another site, that have not been taken in the spirit they were intended. I have also offered a few 'Nice job!'s.....as I do now with her image of tulips....it's superb.

This has all been blown out of proportion.
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Julie Hall

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nothing has been blown out of proportion. you are mean and small minded and overly critical of others. When your opinion has not been asked for, you should keep it to yourself. the things you say are hurtful and unwarranted. you do not run this site, you are not the editor here and your work is not better or even the best. you submit photos that do not run to the top becuz you are as we all are...a human being. Welcome to Earth!
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Pat Hartley

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if only I knew what you were saying!
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Kelli Deaver Lauck

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janette you know nothing about me nor will you - you don't know my experience, my work ethic or how i deal with positive constructive criticism...so maybe you are the one who should check your projections at the door...take a look at your offerings on these comments here and tell me from an outsiders point of view - just how positive you came across. not very. i am not a thin skinned person at all....and i can handle any kind of constructive criticism but i will not tolerate an attack nor will i tolerate another person being attacked..i don't give a rat's *** what your experience was, is or will be- that means nothing to me at all. and the only people that I have to impress are my clients - of which I do. There is no one person here that is "superior" to me or me to anyone here....we are peers period. And it is MY peers that i HAVE learned from - the ones who have been willing to offer positive constructive criticism and not continue to hash out needless and childish wars.

i am not here to have war with anyone nor will i. you say that "this is all beneath you" well then - leave it alone....you are only causing some severe ill feelings here that is NOT necesssary.
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Janette Fraser

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If you weren't responding from an ego invested position Kelli then you wouldn't be upset right now. And yes - there are people here of greater talent, ability and experience around here than you. The fact that you (your ego) can't accept and even celebrate that fact atm reveals your present immaturity. In another 10 years though, you'll remember this conversation and (hopefully) have a good laugh at yourself.

:-)
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Julie Hall

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I really really really do not like you. I hope you never meet anyone in my circle of friends or anyone in my family,. You should not have pets or small children either and if anyone sees you with either, you should be locked up for abuse.
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Shirley Mangini

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Whoa Janette, exactly why are you turning this on Kelli. If this is beneath you, then what the heck are you doing???

"Shirley - I really do not care. I'm an editor before I am a woman and these silly 'reindeer games' are beneath me."
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Janette Fraser

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Oh Shush!

I have no personal investment in this conversation beyond the promotion of a greater amount of constructive criticism on Pixoto without the knitting circle taking umbrage.

Now listen you lot - and learn! Even if you are genuinely insulted instead of just having difficulty processing your feelings after some constructive criticism has been offered (as is the case here) - then you aren't learning a thing by simply responding from a place of anger! So listen!

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Once there was a disciple of a Greek philosopher who was commanded by his Master for three years to give money to everyone who insulted him. When this period of trial was over the Master said to him "Now you can go to Athens and learn Wisdom".

When the disciple was entering Athens he met a certain wise man who sat at the gate insulting everybody who came and went. He also insulted the disciple, who burst out laughing.

"Why do you laugh when I insult you?" asked the wise man.

"Because", said the disciple, "for three years I have been paying for this kind of thing and now you give it to me for nothing!"

"Enter the city", said the wise man, "it is all yours..."

- A story from the Desert Fathers of Scete, 4th Century ["The Art of Happiness" - HH Dalai Lama & Howard C. Cutler, pg 143, (1998), isbn 9780340750155]

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When someone insults us we don't pay them for it with money, but many a time we end up paying them with our attention and the coin we spend is our own pain and anger that someone has tried to hurt our self image. The more we see that our self image is not a reflection of ourselves but an empty and false illusionary construct of the mind, the less time we spend responding to insult until with practise - we don't spend time feeling pain or anger when we are insulted. We look through the illusion and laugh, and where once upon a time we would have paid for an insult, we get them for free, and are thus recieved into the City of Wisdom.

All the best to you, and good night! :-)

.
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Kelli Deaver Lauck

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well, now thanks for that honesty....way to bring on that positive constructive criticism....You took many things here so completely out of context that you are now personally bashing me by call me immature and that I have a big ego - oh and yes, now I lack talent....nice....how's that for peer support, folks?? This is something I am supposed to celebrate, though....right?!?! and with your little lesson you are basically saying you can sling the insults but if we respond to them it makes us overly invested in ego and immature...right....

My overly invested and immature ego, my lack of talent and I are going to do the grown up thing here and walk away from this conversation because you are not worth my time....maybe in 10 years, though....but i doubt it.
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Peter Blake

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Opens a 10-day old bag of popcorn
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Julie Hall

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grabs a handful and throws it at Janette from another planet.

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