Start Limiting Daily Submissions

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Request to Start Limiting Daily Submissions per Category.  Some Users Over Publishing.

Hi Scott,
If this situation continues, and you do nothing to change it, I will leave the site.
Today, our usual polluter just posted 50 pictures of flowers, out of 72... look for the error.
I’m sick of it.
I have already warned about this by requesting a daily submission limit without success.
Today, I am again facing the problem, which is becoming unbearable.

Do something or it will end badly.

Cordially
Gérard
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Chatenet Gérard

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Posted 3 months ago

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Scott Murphy, Official Rep

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Hello Gérard,

Submit a ticket with the user's information using the Help icon on the bottom right of the Submit page and we will discuss this.

https://www.pixoto.com/v3/image/submit
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Karen Mac2

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Perhaps that is the only category that the user is photographing?  I post a lot of images in the categories that I like best. I don't think that the "competition" is a bad thing, but 50 does seem a bit excessive. However, if the person is a "pro" contributor--they pay for the privilege of posting. Pixoto has lost so many that have participated over the years. I am sad about that! Of course, some people try it out and do not continue. But seems like the population on here is less than half of what it was in 2014, for example. Would limiting the number of posts per day make more people quit the site? I do not want Pixoto to leave!!!!! 
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Dennis Ba

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Gerard, I understand your situation.  Such high rates of "participation" are nothing more than an unabashed attempt to dominate a category.  Already, the awards at Pixoto are greatly diminished by virtue of the diminished pool of participants.  Daily awards are largely meaningless now because the algorithms used to compute winners (questionable as they already are) require more duels than typically can occur now in 24 hours.  Regrettably, people tend to abuse situations when there are no rules, and over submission is an abuse for which there are no rules right now.  Such over submission formed part of my own withdrawal from Pixoto last year; and though it is nowhere as bad in the Animals category at the moment as it is in Flowers, it had certainly gotten out of hand there also.  Frankly, I didn't like the impact my trying to keep pace with another participant intent on "winning" was having on my work:  it became redundant (and, indeed, the Animals category suffers from this because of the medium's impact upon  viewing entrees - note the absence of Environmental portraiture in the category.  Ironically, this kind of animal photography is really what SELLS in prints, not anything you find on display in the category at Pixoto) and I became terribly bored and disheartened by what I was submitting.  I understand the technical tribulations Scott and others are dealing with here at Pixoto, I thank them for all they do, but I do believe at some point when they are able they should look at ways to reduce the wild west, frontier behavior of some of those who seek to make a category their own personal domain.

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Chatenet Gérard

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Today, same situation about the same person : 26 pictures on 50 submitted. It becomes silly, annoying but also frustrating because we realize that no one is doing what it takes to change it. It is obvious that submitting so many images at 3 am, she systematically squats the top of the classification, because we know that it is in the first half hour that the notes are made.
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Michael Moore

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At least some one is submitting images.

If 50 images are submitted only 10 would achieve awards, yes the member's images have an increased chance of receiving an award but it is not guaranteed. I accept that if the category ends up with say 100 images then 20 images would be entitled to awards thus doubling this member's chances (20  out of 26) of an ward but here would be a further 50 images also possible contenders.


Depending on where you live in the world someone will always have an advantage of posting early in the day. However awards are not given until late into the following day, allowing, in theory, other image to catch up with duels.


Maybe some of the member's images deserve an award, it is up to other members to submit worthy images.


In the past the flower category attracted images in their 100s daily and this topic would not have been noticed.


We should be encouraging members to submit images not discouraging them.
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Dennis Ba

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When one person floods a category with entrees, it can have a demoralizing effect on other serious participants.  Given that the premise of participation here at Pixoto is competition, it is not unreasonable that there be some guidelines established to dissuade people from flooding a category.  Establishing a maximum daily submission limit for each category would seem to be an obvious solution.  Yes, indeed, we should be encouraging members to submit images; but what is truly needed is a greater number of people submitting images in a well defined and level competitive environment. 

The algorithms by which duels and scoring are determined might also be interesting to learn more about.  I regularly see curious anomalies I cannot comprehend.  Some education regarding how photos are paired in duels and what determines the number of duels a photo has (excepting the obvious, of course, of the time a photo was submitted) would be illuminating.  This, however, has less impact on an individual's long term aggregate score for any photo or body of work in a category (it would seem) since it is assumed we are all subject to the same application of these formulas.
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Scott Murphy, Official Rep

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What if we change the awarding process to be based on # of participants and not # of images submitted?  Then submitting more images does not manipulate the outcome.
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Michael Moore

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I would prefer the award system to remain as it is.
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Dave Lipchen

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It's time to finish last year's results....
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Chatenet Gérard

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Hi Scott,

I don’t agree with you on that!
When a person submits 50 images at the very beginning of the period, it is obvious that the first duels take place "between her and her"!!! And in these conditions, only his images recover points that it will be very difficult to catch after... even if the pictures concerned are of a mediocre quality... which is the case in general.
This is a good way to get around the system. (This is what happened this week).
And it is quite obvious that being currently 2nd in category "Flowers", in 2019, behind Raphael, with a comfortable lead, I feel absolutely not in danger, but the principle annoys me, and I am thinking of a number of my colleagues who are totally penalized by this dupe.
In any case, I see that it is easier to do nothing than to try to find a way to solve this problem.
So don’t do anything, as for me, I’m finishing 2019, and I’m leaving pro status in January.
I’m not going to continue paying under those conditions.
Do not forget that in fact, in this game, we pay, but we gain nothing, except the recognition of our colleagues...
Given the way things are evolving, I don’t see a lot of interest in staying.
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Chatenet Gérard

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Not to mention the fact that, on the recognition side, it becomes more and more ridiculous: when you think that we still haven’t had the 2018 awards, and even less the badges.
Frankly, the situation is becoming ridiculous.
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Scott Murphy, Official Rep

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Hi Gerard,

Thanks for your input.   So based on what you are saying, a simple enough fix would be to not allow images with the same owner to vote against themselves until they have X number of votes or have been in the system for Y number of days.

What do you think those numbers should be?

Or perhaps simple enough rule such as images by the same owner submitted on the same day can not duel against each other?
(Edited)
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Chatenet Gérard

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Hello Scott,
I just got back from a week off, which is why I’m late.
No, I wasn’t talking about that kind of amendment.
As our friend Renos just pointed out, several months ago, if not years ago, we asked that the daily bidding process no longer accept these massive bids, and allows only a certain number of images per category, per day and per person. A limit between five and ten, say 6...!
While I am convinced, contrary to certain, that this will not discourage members of our community, it will, on the contrary, have a reverse effect.
in addition, I do not agree with what has been said, concerning the Status of "Pro"... Paying for this status does not give the right to do anything!!! This is clearly a lack of respect for other members who are trying to respect a certain ethic.
Cordially
Gérard
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Renos Hadjikyriacou

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These are not acceptable solutions, those are Cosmetic changes!

I, and others, have made frequently so many constructive suggestions and proposals about limiting submissions to maximum 5 - 10 images per day and category, since over three Years (3) now, whith no result, its always "Under Consideration" i gave up.

2016, last year 2018 and this Year 2019 i haven`t entered any images and
If Pixoto does not fix some key issues im not willing to show any images next year 2020 either.

Over Years nothing happens, it lacks on willingness to make those nessesary changes!

Pixoto will reach the point of loosing more of the good photographers, its a great pity !


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Scott Murphy, Official Rep

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I am not opposed to limiting the number of submissions in a category. I am just looking for a clear definition of what problems it causes as very similar images are not allowed.

If it is the user's images dueling against themselves, this can be prevented until after weekly awards.

If it is that it biases award distribution, this can be prevented to base awards on a max number of images per photographer for the category. For instance if we based max on 5. If 19 photographers each submitted 5 images, end 1 submitted 25, then awards can be limited to be based on 20*5 = 80 images.

These changes are not cosmetic and the system would behave as if they never submitted the images provided the quality of the users images is not significantly better than everyone else in the category. Based on the users account that has been referred to, this has not been the case.

BUT, we could even go as far as limiting the number awards a photographer can win in a particular category/time period if there is a fear of this.
For instance, if you submit 25 images to a daily category and your images are the top 25, you can only win a max of 5 awards, so the person in the #6 spot would get 6th place. This is not cosmetic and in this case the overall system would behave in the end the same as if the user had only submitted 5 images.

However, these restrictions would not impact the monthly and yearly awards, so if a user submitted 25 images on the same day, they would behave as normal after weekly awards have finished.

These changes could be done faster that rewriting the submission system which is more involved due to the numerous ways of currently submitting an image (web,mobile,app)

Additionally, if everyone can communicate to me any other concerns, we can address those as well.

I want everyone to understand we are working very hard on the site right now and we have released massive changes behind the scenes that are going to allow very fast improvements in the future as well as a much more stable platform.

As always, your feedback is very much appreciated.
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Scott Murphy, Official Rep

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Being that I have not gotten anyones response on this matter since my response 6 days ago.  I am going to move forward with blocking a users own images from voting against each other for the first week of submission. 

I have reviewed this matter and I do find it annoying to see a users own images voting against each other out of the gate.  You can expect to see this release within the next week.
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Chatenet Gérard

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So, despite the fact that several people have asked you to LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SUBMISSIONS BY CATEGORY/DAY AND NO ONE, I see that you don’t give a damn, so I take note, and I know what I have to do.
Renos, Raphael, Dennis, and everybody else, I think you got it. There’s no point in wasting time on this site.
Scott, I thought I could trust you, and I think I made a mistake.
For the short story, I advise you to study the category flowers, for a week now and to look at the behaviour of this person who submits more than half of the images alone, day after day... it is distressing.
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Scott Murphy, Official Rep

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Hi Gérard,

You are mistaken, I do care and you can trust me. I value your opinion and I want to find a solution that will make everyone happy and make sense. As I have stated previously, I am not against limiting submissions and I am willing to do this. I just feel it is a very aggressive first step to try and solve an issue that can very well be solved more effectively in another manner.

I would appreciate your patience and I am asking that you let us first try and solve the problem in another way that does not involve changing the numerous submission points.

*** Effective today (1 hour ago) we did a release that will now prevent a users images from voting against each other until that images votes have stabilized. I think this, if anything, will address a large part of your concerns. Let's monitor this first step and we will continue to perform additional steps until everyone is satisfied with the outcome.