Today (Dec 6) we are announcing an update to the List pages on the IMDb desktop experience. This update is part of the broader site changes announced recently (https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/upcoming-changes-to-several-imdb-features-du6man1opd5q0). After in-depth discussion and examination, we have decided to simplify the features and functionality for lists. We have merged “compact view” and list editing into a single Edit experience. In that one view, you can now modify your text and add, copy, delete and move items. We have also pulled List actions (edit, export, settings) together into a 1-click menu (the 3 vertical dots on the top right of the page). You will now also find two new options in the Refine menu: ‘In Theaters’ and ‘Keywords.’ Tech constraints on the new system prohibit us from continuing to support drag-and-drop from the Edit view; we appreciate your understanding. For more information about Lists, see the IMDb Help Center.
Karen, Official Rep
Posted 5 months ago
Karen, Official Rep
Hi everyone. Here is the progress update for the week ending Feb 2.
- We fixed an issue that was causing encoded characters in list descriptions to display incorrectly.
- We fixed an issue on the Showtimes page that caused the Watchlist ribbon to render incorrectly when viewing trailers.
There's a horrendous bug when editing long descriptions / comments in the the new interface, which I discovered today when editing my very popular list (23K+ views) for the first time in a few weeks. Once you've positioned the cursor with a mouse click, any keyboard use -- including Shift (!) -- causes a re-centering of the comment on the screen. (It doesn't even do that correctly -- the top of the comment is not at the top of the screen but quite a bit below it). The actual cursor doesn't move, just the screen view, but with a long enough list, this can move the cursor entirely off the screen. Because the cursor hasn't moved, It is possible to insert text at a given point by typing blindly (or by writing it in Word and pasting it in blindly), and it's possible to delete text by either highlighting it with the mouse and hitting Del or counting the number of characters that need to be removed and hitting Backspace blindly. But in every one of these cases, you have to re-scroll through the comment to relocate the altered text.
If you need an example, here's my list: the bug happens editing the final description. http://www.imdb.com/list/ls076641370/
If you need an example, here's my list: the bug happens editing the final description. http://www.imdb.com/list/ls076641370/
Karen, Official Rep
Karen, Official Rep
Hi everyone Here is the update for the week ending Feb 16.
- We improved list reordering to make edits work more predictably.
bderoes, Champion
@ Karen, Official Rep
Here's a simple example that still fails (destination also placed in comment to track success/failure). Note, title 3 is unaltered; so what was ABCDE is supposed to come out EDCBA:
And here's the failed result of Save List Order, instead of EDCBA, is ECDBA:
Here's a simpler one; just move the first title before the 4th one:
and the result is NOT what the human wanted.
(I won't clutter the post here, but moving a title ABOVE it's current position DOES give the expected result, as it did previously.)
So there is not much improvement since the idea exchange back here on 17 Jan:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
I wonder if the techs have considered my comments here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
specifically:
Here's a simple example that still fails (destination also placed in comment to track success/failure). Note, title 3 is unaltered; so what was ABCDE is supposed to come out EDCBA:
And here's the failed result of Save List Order, instead of EDCBA, is ECDBA:
Here's a simpler one; just move the first title before the 4th one:
and the result is NOT what the human wanted.
(I won't clutter the post here, but moving a title ABOVE it's current position DOES give the expected result, as it did previously.)
So there is not much improvement since the idea exchange back here on 17 Jan:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
I wonder if the techs have considered my comments here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
specifically:
I mentioned ... that Information Science has studied the problem of sorting/merging extensively. But I'll bet most if not all academic articles on the subject deal with an objective, unchanging key by which the items should be sorted."Position n" is apparently still NOT an objective unchanging key when certain combinations of moves are requested.
Hopefully IMDb staff are realizing that when we specify that we want an item to appear before the title currently at position n, they need to hang on to the actual title, not just the number n. Otherwise many combinations of moving more than one title at a time will fail.
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Can't change list order..
Greetings, I am probably just to dumb to get how do I change the order of the movies from list after this new update that changed the format.
From what I remember I would just be able to drag the titles, now I can't pick them up no matter where I click and if I use the number feature it just gives me an error.
So I am doing something wrong or that feature for me its just bugged?
Greetings, I am probably just to dumb to get how do I change the order of the movies from list after this new update that changed the format.
From what I remember I would just be able to drag the titles, now I can't pick them up no matter where I click and if I use the number feature it just gives me an error.
So I am doing something wrong or that feature for me its just bugged?
bderoes, Champion
@Wild Frey:
You said:
I just posted two examples of Save List Order that the newest version of the software still does wrong here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
And you are correct, Drag/Drop is not supported now. I can only hope they'll bring it back.
You said:
if I use the number feature it just gives me an errorDo you mean you get an ERROR MESSAGE, or that the result is not what you expected?
I just posted two examples of Save List Order that the newest version of the software still does wrong here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/update-to-list-pages?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=a...
And you are correct, Drag/Drop is not supported now. I can only hope they'll bring it back.
Karen, Official Rep
Hi everyone. Here is the update announcement for this week (the week ending Feb 23):
- We added an additional list view option. In addition to Detail and Grid, there is now also an option for Compact view.
(Edited)
But still no refine in edit mode. Makes editing a list near to impossible.
THANK YOU!
One more little request can you do 250 per page like it is in edit mode?
What is the status of bringing back the ability to edit the "Description box" of an IMDb entry? I am hoping that in addition to creating [b]BOLD[/b] and [i]italic[/i] (currently the only editing features I am aware that are available), I would like to once again colorize my text. Colors like [blue]BLUE[/blue], [red]RED[/red] or any of the other colors once available on: https://www.imdb.com/activity/help/descriptionmarkup would be GREAT!!
(Edited)
Also if you could set default views for our lists.
Another thing which I'm sure you haven't got to yet is to include the vote amounts next to the average IMDB score and any score that is 7 should be 7.0 or 8 should be 8.0 just so it aesthetically look better like it does in edit mode.
Another thing which I'm sure you haven't got to yet is to include the vote amounts next to the average IMDB score and any score that is 7 should be 7.0 or 8 should be 8.0 just so it aesthetically look better like it does in edit mode.
(Edited)
I really welcome the new feature to change item locations by entering the location/position no. on the list. I think this can very much complement the drag and drop feature but CANNOT replace it completely, as the drag and drop functionality is highly convenient and efficient in many cases.
So, the decision to remove the Drag and Drop feature was wrong in my view. IMDB should bring it back while keeping this newly added way of changing item positions, intact. Thank you.
So, the decision to remove the Drag and Drop feature was wrong in my view. IMDB should bring it back while keeping this newly added way of changing item positions, intact. Thank you.
(Edited)
I just want to add that it is very inconvenient if the item position cannot change instantly without having to save the list first. It becomes tiresome if your list runs into several pages. With drag and drop, atleast item positions changed instantly. If after changing the position no. of an item, if I could click on some button, say 'Move' and after that be automatically be taken to the page where that item lands in, that would be much better.
I was just in the middle of adjusting my lists and now I can't seem to change my list order at all.
As was I. What the heck is going on?
bderoes, Champion
@Chris & Noah Goucher
What exactly are the symptoms? It did nothing? It did it wrong? You did X and it did X-3?
I have a 5-title list created for testing, and here's what I get:
Start with this, and notice the destination is also in the comment to check the result (NB: there is no 6th item):
After Save List Order, the 2 moved to the 2nd slot, but the 6 just got shuttled down with the others:
New test, just move one title down:
Oh, boy, it's much worse than "not working". It just swapped 2 entries!!
What exactly are the symptoms? It did nothing? It did it wrong? You did X and it did X-3?
I have a 5-title list created for testing, and here's what I get:
Start with this, and notice the destination is also in the comment to check the result (NB: there is no 6th item):
After Save List Order, the 2 moved to the 2nd slot, but the 6 just got shuttled down with the others:
New test, just move one title down:
Oh, boy, it's much worse than "not working". It just swapped 2 entries!!
Karen, Official Rep
Karen, Official Rep
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Sort by Name (Alphabetically) within a specific list.
Over the yeas I have created a number of lists within my account and want to add another entry. However, when I enter a 'specific' list, the only sort options I have available to me are 'List Order' and 'Date Added'. The sort alphabetically option does not exist, but it did a number of years ago. What happened and can we have the sort alphabetically option added or am I missing something? Thanks.
Over the yeas I have created a number of lists within my account and want to add another entry. However, when I enter a 'specific' list, the only sort options I have available to me are 'List Order' and 'Date Added'. The sort alphabetically option does not exist, but it did a number of years ago. What happened and can we have the sort alphabetically option added or am I missing something? Thanks.
bderoes, Champion
You may want to vote for this idea:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/edit-list-enhancement-requests
and/or this one:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/compact-view-for-title-lists-should-return-with-these-featur...
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/edit-list-enhancement-requests
and/or this one:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/compact-view-for-title-lists-should-return-with-these-featur...
It's been a major issue after the "upgrade". A LOT of people asking to be able to edit with alpha order. But it's like shouting for HELP in the desert. Nobody there.
Me too, I want sort by starmeter on people lists back, but .... nobody haha. My question is why they removed that option n others? Its like they wanna remove their users..
Karen, Official Rep
Karen, Official Rep
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Progress Bar on IMDb Lists.
I'm wondering what happened to the progress bar that could once be seen on the right side of the screen, beside any movie list on the IMDb website. It's boxed in the image below. It was a very useful tool to have when navigating movie lists on the site -- particularly lengthy lists. Perhaps you can bring it back? :D
I'm wondering what happened to the progress bar that could once be seen on the right side of the screen, beside any movie list on the IMDb website. It's boxed in the image below. It was a very useful tool to have when navigating movie lists on the site -- particularly lengthy lists. Perhaps you can bring it back? :D
Okay, I left the conversation to give the staff a chance to act. I've been very disappointed by the results so far and by the sound of Karen's last post, they feel like they've basically "finished" the list system. Her suggestion to everyone to start posting in the general ideas section is just a way of burying future complaints and requests.
Since it looks like we're not going to get anything more out of the staff in terms of improvements, I'm going to be realistic with my demands.
Right now, IMDb have got me by the skin of their teeth. I recently conducted an experiment to find out if my popular list has financial value to Amazon/IMDb (hint: it does) so I feel empowered to make threats and demands.
I want at least one of the following three features pertaining to list reordering implemented or else I'm going to move my list over to my own site in the coming months:
TL;DR: I've waited months, list reordering still sucks, I'm worth listening to, fix my shit.
Thanks.
Since it looks like we're not going to get anything more out of the staff in terms of improvements, I'm going to be realistic with my demands.
Right now, IMDb have got me by the skin of their teeth. I recently conducted an experiment to find out if my popular list has financial value to Amazon/IMDb (hint: it does) so I feel empowered to make threats and demands.
I want at least one of the following three features pertaining to list reordering implemented or else I'm going to move my list over to my own site in the coming months:
- The return of drag and drop reordering. I thought it wasn't a big loss but I was wrong. Moving a list item up one position has turned from a one second task into a ten second task. Ten seconds doesn't seem like a big deal until you're working with 2000 items.
- Addition of a compact editor mode that displays up to 500 items at a time. This would reduce the burden of having no drag and drop.
- Duplication of the editor controls and pagination at both the top and bottom of each editor page. I shouldn't need to scroll all the way up from the bottom of 250 items to save my new order or delete an item. Conversely, I shouldn't need to scroll all the way down from the top of 250 items to change page (although I use URLs for this primarily). The only control that it makes sense to stick at the bottom of the page with no duplication is the "Add a new..." search textbox.
TL;DR: I've waited months, list reordering still sucks, I'm worth listening to, fix my shit.
Thanks.
(Edited)
bderoes, Champion
Good to see you back here, watchinglotsofstuff.
Could you please clarify what you mean by the middle bullet's "compact editor"? Is it the old compact mode where you can refine the list you are editing, as outlined here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/compact-view-for-title-lists-should-return-with-these-featur...
Or just a vertically shorter (skip the thumbnails and blanks lines between titles) version of what we have now?
I agree with your other requests, and encourage others who do to vote/comment here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/edit-list-enhancement-requests
___
In case people have forgotten or were unaware, watchinglotsofstuff's super-list (certainly in terms of traffic) is
Could you please clarify what you mean by the middle bullet's "compact editor"? Is it the old compact mode where you can refine the list you are editing, as outlined here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/compact-view-for-title-lists-should-return-with-these-featur...
Or just a vertically shorter (skip the thumbnails and blanks lines between titles) version of what we have now?
I agree with your other requests, and encourage others who do to vote/comment here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/edit-list-enhancement-requests
___
In case people have forgotten or were unaware, watchinglotsofstuff's super-list (certainly in terms of traffic) is
"The goriest and most gory, violent and extreme movies of all time"(I'm not saying it's the highest volume of all time, but it's darned impressive. I just checked one that has higher volume overall, and extant 2 years longer, but had "only" 297 views last week.)
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls052109284/
Views: 318,444 | in last week 705
created - 13 Oct 2013
Are you looking forward to getting started on watching the films though? ;)
Oh and I was creating my own desktop list manager for us with all of the missing features but... well, blame IMDb for the fact that it will never be available.
IMDb doesn't provide an API, which is a big but not insurmountable problem. The problem is that they go out of their way to prevent automated logins and activity on IMDb so I can't even write my own API. They use obfuscated and regularly updated JS to make automated logins all but impossible without writing a full JS interpreter. I figured out an ugly workaround but I just don't trust IMDb not to shut it down.
I have an early alpha build that draws data from and modifies a live IMDb list. It has far more options for reordering than IMDb's editor (e.g. position numbering, drag and drop, up and down buttons, compact editor mode, variable length pagination -- including no pagination at all). One of the really awesome features is that if you type a new position number into an item's textbox and then hover over it, a modal appears with the name of the film that you're going to displace (i.e. stuff that most list editors could only dream of getting from IMDb itself).
I planned to release it as free, open source software but I'm not going to finish it because it's not a trivial project and I don't trust IMDb not to pull the rug out from under me as soon as I try to publish it. I'm not going to finish it for personal use either because, as stated above, I plan to leave IMDb unless they make changes soon.
Of course, they could always reach out to me and support my efforts but the chances of that happening are asymptotic to zero.
IMDb doesn't provide an API, which is a big but not insurmountable problem. The problem is that they go out of their way to prevent automated logins and activity on IMDb so I can't even write my own API. They use obfuscated and regularly updated JS to make automated logins all but impossible without writing a full JS interpreter. I figured out an ugly workaround but I just don't trust IMDb not to shut it down.
I have an early alpha build that draws data from and modifies a live IMDb list. It has far more options for reordering than IMDb's editor (e.g. position numbering, drag and drop, up and down buttons, compact editor mode, variable length pagination -- including no pagination at all). One of the really awesome features is that if you type a new position number into an item's textbox and then hover over it, a modal appears with the name of the film that you're going to displace (i.e. stuff that most list editors could only dream of getting from IMDb itself).
I planned to release it as free, open source software but I'm not going to finish it because it's not a trivial project and I don't trust IMDb not to pull the rug out from under me as soon as I try to publish it. I'm not going to finish it for personal use either because, as stated above, I plan to leave IMDb unless they make changes soon.
Of course, they could always reach out to me and support my efforts but the chances of that happening are asymptotic to zero.
(Edited)
Do you realise how arrogant and childish you sound? Who do you think you are making a list of 'threats and demands' and telling people to 'fix my shit'?
Your list had 850 views last week. IMDb received 690 million visits last month according to https://www.similarweb.com/website/imdb.com#overview so what makes you think you have 'financial value' to IMDb? As if IMDb will be fearing the financial implications of you leaving.
Your list had 850 views last week. IMDb received 690 million visits last month according to https://www.similarweb.com/website/imdb.com#overview so what makes you think you have 'financial value' to IMDb? As if IMDb will be fearing the financial implications of you leaving.
@Aaron: In the grand scheme of things, my value to IMDb is negligible (similar to IMDb's value to me). Meanwhile, in the real world, companies tend to listen to even singular users or clients when those people are a net benefit to them. Have you never complained to a business before, lad? Try it. You might be surprised.
You can read my earlier posts in this thread if you want a less combative, more constructive appraisal. I also just explained how I already did their job for them - a far better job, I might add - and that their policies keep me from offering an improved user experience to all list creators. I put my money (or time in this case) where my mouth is. What have you done except shill for IMDb?
Edit: I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention that the "value" I've previously spoken about has no relation to traffic and visitor counts. The obscure nature of my list drives actual sales through Amazon, which is what I confirmed in my "experiment". A single sale of a VOD release is worth potentially thousands of page views of ad revenue, especially in the era of ad block. Directly comparing traffic is not the correct methodological approach here. As a mildly amusing aside, I spoke to some people who said they bought films from my list because they were too rare to even pirate.
You can read my earlier posts in this thread if you want a less combative, more constructive appraisal. I also just explained how I already did their job for them - a far better job, I might add - and that their policies keep me from offering an improved user experience to all list creators. I put my money (or time in this case) where my mouth is. What have you done except shill for IMDb?
Edit: I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention that the "value" I've previously spoken about has no relation to traffic and visitor counts. The obscure nature of my list drives actual sales through Amazon, which is what I confirmed in my "experiment". A single sale of a VOD release is worth potentially thousands of page views of ad revenue, especially in the era of ad block. Directly comparing traffic is not the correct methodological approach here. As a mildly amusing aside, I spoke to some people who said they bought films from my list because they were too rare to even pirate.
(Edited)
If IMDb would just reach out to me and give me some assurances that they wouldn't try to obstruct my efforts to provide an improved open source list manager, I would happily finish it. Lots of people would be grateful, IMDb wouldn't have to deal with many disgruntled listmakers and my software (tentatively titled "ILMg: IMDb List Manager") would add value to the site. It's a win/win/win situation and I can't understand how anyone could possibly be opposed to what I'm trying to do.
Sure, I might have gone a bit overboard with my non-sober posting but ignore that and focus on the far more important contribution I'm trying to make. Everyone who makes lists should be supporting me. I don't expect anyone from IMDb to give me their blessing though. Seems silly to me but what can I do?
Sure, I might have gone a bit overboard with my non-sober posting but ignore that and focus on the far more important contribution I'm trying to make. Everyone who makes lists should be supporting me. I don't expect anyone from IMDb to give me their blessing though. Seems silly to me but what can I do?
(Edited)
@watchinglotsofstuff Dude, consider the constructive criticism and in no way an attack, but you're seriously misinformed if you think IMDB cares about your lists/list or that it has any financial value to them. That's like saying a multimillion dollar company cares when an irate customer says they're taking their business elsewhere. They don't.
Here's the bottom line, IMDB is owned by Amazon. Amazon's main concern is not user lists or user-generated content, they're concerned about product sales, ad revenue, and subscription-based customer service. IMDB's bread and butter comes from IMDBPro; a paid subscription that panders to hollywood elite. They do not care about free user-generated content, that's just an advantage for them.
Lest we forget IMDB completely obliterated the comment board a year ago. Some people had thousands of comments on there. Hours, days, weeks, years of blood sweat and tears poured into talking about the film/tv they love. And IMDB threw it away like it never happened. IMDB is a business, and businesses care about their bottom line.
We are lucky to have the lists still available. Believe me, I'm just as frustrated by the changes as you (I have over 40 lists myself, some public some private) but if you really think making "demands" is going to do anything, then you're really not seeing the big picture. I hope IMDB goes back to drag-and-drop, Amazon has it, why not IMDB? But stop thinking they give a crap about the free users. We are the peons in the bigger business model. My advice go to Letterboxd sooner than later, their main business model is film list creation. They will actually listen to your complaints and will keep their site on target for hopefully years to come. IMDB is an unreliable narrator.
Here's the bottom line, IMDB is owned by Amazon. Amazon's main concern is not user lists or user-generated content, they're concerned about product sales, ad revenue, and subscription-based customer service. IMDB's bread and butter comes from IMDBPro; a paid subscription that panders to hollywood elite. They do not care about free user-generated content, that's just an advantage for them.
Lest we forget IMDB completely obliterated the comment board a year ago. Some people had thousands of comments on there. Hours, days, weeks, years of blood sweat and tears poured into talking about the film/tv they love. And IMDB threw it away like it never happened. IMDB is a business, and businesses care about their bottom line.
We are lucky to have the lists still available. Believe me, I'm just as frustrated by the changes as you (I have over 40 lists myself, some public some private) but if you really think making "demands" is going to do anything, then you're really not seeing the big picture. I hope IMDB goes back to drag-and-drop, Amazon has it, why not IMDB? But stop thinking they give a crap about the free users. We are the peons in the bigger business model. My advice go to Letterboxd sooner than later, their main business model is film list creation. They will actually listen to your complaints and will keep their site on target for hopefully years to come. IMDB is an unreliable narrator.
(Edited)
I don't think they care. I'm as cynical as anyone you'll find.
If you accept the premise that IMDb just doesn't give a shit (which we both do), it follows that there's no point in not expressing things in the strongest possible terms. They won't care if I say "pretty please" and they won't care if I come in making demands like I'm the CTO so it doesn't really matter, does it? I also wasn't completely sober when I made that post.
Regarding Letterboxd, I've explored the option but it has several deal-breaking flaws for me personally. Most of them technical but the community is another. The community feels very much like IMDb for kids. I'd much rather roll my own solution than migrate to Letterboxd, I think. If I can manipulate IMDb's code to add back in the missing functionality, I can sure as hell create my own UI to my own tastes. Manipulating existing webpages is more difficult than building them from the ground up.
Anyway, yeah, the disappearance of the message board and PM system was a wake-up call. I wasn't active on the message board but it was frequently the only place to read interpretive essays on the endings of obscure Japanese horror movies from the '80s. That was the biggest loss so far and will probably remain so until they take away reviews. I think the end-game is to have no public-facing user interactivity whatsoever.
If you accept the premise that IMDb just doesn't give a shit (which we both do), it follows that there's no point in not expressing things in the strongest possible terms. They won't care if I say "pretty please" and they won't care if I come in making demands like I'm the CTO so it doesn't really matter, does it? I also wasn't completely sober when I made that post.
Regarding Letterboxd, I've explored the option but it has several deal-breaking flaws for me personally. Most of them technical but the community is another. The community feels very much like IMDb for kids. I'd much rather roll my own solution than migrate to Letterboxd, I think. If I can manipulate IMDb's code to add back in the missing functionality, I can sure as hell create my own UI to my own tastes. Manipulating existing webpages is more difficult than building them from the ground up.
Anyway, yeah, the disappearance of the message board and PM system was a wake-up call. I wasn't active on the message board but it was frequently the only place to read interpretive essays on the endings of obscure Japanese horror movies from the '80s. That was the biggest loss so far and will probably remain so until they take away reviews. I think the end-game is to have no public-facing user interactivity whatsoever.
