Two rejections for June Foray

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I submitted two uncredited credits for June Foray, and they were both rejected. I also submitted a correction for Jack Ryan, which was also rejected.

June Foray does uncredited voice work for an episode of THE PUPPY'S NEW ADVENTURES ("The Puppy's Dangerous Mission"). She voices a pseudo-Russian villainess named Sasha. Unfortunately, she is uncredited, and I can't provide any corroborating proof, and so I may have to let this one go for now. I have only my ear to confirm that June Foray is doing a variation of her voice for Natasha on THE ROCKY AND BULLWINKLE SHOW.

I can, however, prove that she is the voice of Chatty Cathy in the 1962 TV ad Chatty Cathy: This Is Mattel's Family of Chatty Dolls. Any article about Chatty Cathy, and any article providing an overview of June Foray's career, will tell you that June Foray provided the voice for the talking doll, Chatty Cathy, and that her voice was heard in the commercials. Here is one article of thousands: http://extratv.com/2017/07/29/june-foray-first-lady-of-voice-acting-and-voice-of-rocky-the-squirrel-...

I also made a correction for Jack Ryan for the same TV ad. Jack Ryan was already listed as a voice; I added that he plays "Himself - Announcer" and that he is uncredited. The correction did not go through.

https://contribute.imdb.com/contribution/190227-125743-594000/
https://contribute.imdb.com/updates/update?load=190227-135901-280000
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J.

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Posted 8 months ago

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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi J -

As per our Voice credit guidelines:

They must have received an on-screen credit (i.e. no uncredited performances)

Unfortunately, if Ms. Foray was not credited on-screen for her role, her credit is not eligible to be listed.  As an alternative, you can add the uncredited voice work to her trivia and Other works section.
The same goes for the credit on Jack Ryan's voice credit, since his role as announcer is uncredited it is ineligible to be listed.
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J.

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I have to say, I'm amazed by this rule and didn't know it existed. A large number of credits from the likes of Mel Blanc, Paul Frees, June Foray will have to be wiped out. Almost the entire filmography of Clarence Nash (the voice of Donald Duck) is due to be routed. And all the acting credits on films such as SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS, PINOCCHIO, and BAMBI are illegitimate and can be deleted.

Unless I missed it, there is no exception to this rule for older works, where voice credits are uncommon. I can see some wisdom in the rule, since voices are trickier to identify than faces, and more likely to be identified incorrectly. But on the whole, this is a bad mistake.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Dick Tufeld Dick Tufeld ...  The Robot / ... (uncredited)

He never was credited on screen on Lost in Space as the voice of the robot.

William Conrad was never credited onscreen as the announcer on Rocky and Bullwinkle.

The rule needs a revisit.
(Edited)
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Jeorj Euler

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Those cases may be grandfathered, though.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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See below
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J.

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I pray that the old cases are grandfathered in and won't be deleted.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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If you can provide 2 credible sources, it ought to be accepted.

That's the way a story would be allowed in a newspaper back when print media chose to be accurate.
 
The IMDb claims to be the most comprehensive and reliable source of information on movies, TV and celebrities. We are committed to accuracy.

If these are to be deleted or not accepted, then where is the "Commitment, Reliability, and Accuracy if an arbitrary policy does not allow for inclusion of real work done on those titles?

How can one rely on accuracy if these are not accepted as policy?

My observations
Thanks
Cheers all!
(Edited)
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Vincent Fournols

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It is my understanding that the current IMDb editorial policy is to be a mere original credit registry. This the way I understand the aim for accuracy.
Over the past years, thousand of accurate, interesting, sourced, relevant credits have been deleted, shifted to other sections or transformed into trivia pieces. Because they were not showing on screen.
As we all know, IMDb is not Wikipedia, where everything can be considered, as long as it is reliably sourced. But it is an encyclopedia, when IMDb just aims at being a data registry.
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gromit82, Champion

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Vincent: I was not aware that IMDb has changed its policy about including and excluding uncredited work. The guides pertaining to that policy (such as https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/i-worked-on-a-title-but-did-not-recei...#) haven't significantly changed recently, at least not as far as I can tell. If there was a change, it must have been pretty subtle.

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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Nothing in personal data is onscreen. Nothing in a plot summary is onscreen. Millions of items are data that is not "Onscreen".
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Vincent Fournols

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Hi Gromit,

my assessment stems from mere observation of IMDb staff reactions. I have witnessed that uncredited work could be accepted if screencaps and/or call sheets or paystubs were produced.
Last but not least in this particuar case, I have never heard of Jane Foray before this GS topic. So I trust you about the guidelines and the relevance of her high-profile!
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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I have just recently submitted some photos that have far less proof required than a Voice credit. I have written bios that don't seem to have any system of checks and balances allotted to their approval. I do my best to be accurate. But guess how I write one. Research. I use as much information as possible from a minimum of 3 sources before I make a bio. But that is of no concern for approval. We have all seen some really bad plots and bios. Those are accepted with unfettered open arms. If a bit of data can be verified BY TWO TRUSTED sources (IE: NOT Wiki) then it should be included.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Dead At 99

By Amid Amidi | 07/27/2017 1:56 am | 17


Voice acting legend June Foray died today at age 99. The news was confirmed on Facebook by a family friend, Dave Nimitz.

She was one of the leading voice actresses of the Golden Age of Hollywood theatrical animation, and later transitioned to television series, commercials, movie dubbing, and narration, with a career that lasted into the current decade. Among the hundreds of cartoon characters she brought to life, her iconic roles included Rocky the Flying Squirrel and Natasha Fatale in The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show, Witch Hazel and Granny in the Looney Tunes theatrical shorts.




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Vincent Fournols

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Hi Ed,

Yes, you are of course right!
Nevertheless, there would not be any bio data, plots, keywords (!!!), reviews, parents guides, etc. if at the very core of this ecosystem there were no title with credits.
I have been working with and on IMDb for almost 25 years now, and the "on screen credit only" is characteristic of the current editorial policy.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Hi Vincent,

I'm advocating a change that reflects current times. It is cheaper to CGI a commercial today than it was 20 years ago. This means that being in a commercial for an actor can be eliminated. That means lower costs. 

Now Ponder this;
Not all actors are credited in commercials and music videos, but they are now acceptable for inclusion regardless. Voice work in a commercial should reflect this change also.
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gromit82, Champion

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I would point out that the guideline for voice credit says, "In order to be listed in the Cast section of the credits, actors performing voice work on a film need to fulfill these four eligibility rules:
  1. They must have received an on-screen credit (i.e. no uncredited performances) ...
We make rare exceptions to rule #1 for 'voice cameos' by high-profile actors ...."

I don't know which Jack Ryan the OP is referring to, but I would consider June Foray to be high-profile enough to let any of her uncredited voice work be listed.
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Eboy

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Fully agree with Gromit.

And this ”rule” doesn’t mean that IMDb ”will have to wipe out” old, already approved credits - or reject every uncredited ”voice” credit - just because some are not necessarily accepted. The guide already implies there are exceptions to the ”rule”.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Most actors are not credited in commercials and music videos, but they are now acceptable for inclusion regardless. Voice work in a commercial should reflect this change also.
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J.

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We need to know why this rule was put in place.

Were too many contributors making bad guesses at the identities of uncredited voices? Then IMDb should allow credits that can be corroborated by an objective source. (That means they would reject Foray's credit for THE PUPPY'S NEW ADVENTURES because no source corroborates it. But they would accept her credit for the Chatty Cathy ad because hundreds of sources corroborate it.)

Were too many actors illegitimately adding their names to projects they didn't work on? Then the credits of any established actor or any dead actor should be accepted. (That means any trusted contributor could add a credit for June Foray, Mel Blanc, Paul Frees, etc.)
(Edited)
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Peter, Champion

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FYI, the rule in the submission guide is not new. Here are the old voice guidelines as seen in 2015:
https://web.archive.org/web/201504241...
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J.

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Why was rule about uncredited voice actors put into place?.

We contributors have been discussing the rule against adding uncredited voice actors to the database. We're hoping to have the rule adjusted, but we need to know why the rule was put in place.

Were too many contributors making bad guesses at the identities of uncredited voices? Then IMDb should allow credits that can be corroborated by an objective source.

Were too many actors illegitimately adding their names to projects they didn't work on? Then IMDb should accept submissions for any established or dead actor.

I'm sure there's a good reason for the rule, but it's crazy that we can't add the voice credits of top-name voice actors like Mel Blanc, Paul Frees and June Foray. We're also concerned that old voice credits haven't been grandfathered in, and that the entire casts of SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS (1937), PINOCCHIO (1940), BAMBI (1942), and thousands of animated short subjects from the early 20th century will be deleted.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Aargh Matey.
You've been pirated!
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J.

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It's still good, I hope. This thread was "Problem - Acknowledged" and now it's back to "Problem."
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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If you had put it as an "Idea" as a new post and made no reference to this, it would have stayed as a new post topic.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi All -

Thanks for all your comments and feedback regarding this policy, as mentioned by some above, we do make some exceptions to this policy, which is why you may see 'uncredited' voice credits listed on the site for certain high-profile titles or individuals.  

I have raised a ticket with the team calling for a discussion to revisit this policy based on all the points mentioned in this thread.Once I have an update on the outcome I will share that information with you here.
(Edited)
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Eboy

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When revisiting this issue, I would say there should be more clear distinction between the proper character voices and narration, and ”background voices/adr/looping”. It’s now kinda unfair that some ”uncredited” narrators or voice actors are not necessarily accepted because of this rule.

Voice actors probably don’t differ that much from the other actors. Sometimes they’re ”uncredited”, just like in any other areas.