Lists: Offer better selection / control for "Related Lists" feature

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  • (Edited)
The related user lists for a specific movie has become useless to find similar movies to watch. Even if the movie is very special (for exemple, campy superhero movies from the 60's), the related lists are mostly massive lists such as "movies I watched" with 3000 titles in it. 95% of users lists are not interesting because they are just useful for teh person who created them. There's no common theme, genre or ideas. The problem with the user lists is that they are public by default, so the list section is populated with useless list like "movies I have on my iPhone". And it deosn't help that there's no option to search lists by keyword.
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Sebastien K

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  • frustrated

Posted 6 years ago

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Faust

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Hi Sebastien K

I absolutely agree with you. IMDb should implement a function that does justice to relevant user-lists. Promoting the idea of useful, themed lists will not only be beneficial to other IMDb users but also to the overall quality of the site itself. I have made a number of requests in the past but have, as of yet, received no replies. Maybe, if a large number of people voice their grievances IMDb will at least consider implementing a change?
(Edited)
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Faust

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(Edited)
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Doctor Faustus

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Dear IMDb Staff: User Lists.

I am of the opinion that a large number of IMDb Users have (and continue) to make invaluable contributions to IMDb, and film in general, through their public lists. Every day I am astounded by the sheer amount of time and effort your Users put into their lists. I for one must admit that ever since discovering IMDb, and in particular; IMDb giving it's users the possibility to compile their own lists - I've been hooked (or addicted, for lack of a better word).

My question is; can you not implement a function that supports this? Besides the already existing related lists function. Maybe a rating system, as voted for by other users, which can appear under the community feature on IMDb's main page? Or, maybe a number of lists chosen by IMDb-Editors that appear for a stipulated time period, then exchanged with other lists when that time-period ends? Something in that line that both encourages the efforts of list-makers, and proves beneficial to IMDb.

Yours sincerely
Dr-Faustus
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gilt g

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled List ratings.

There should be an option to rate lists made by members and an option to sort lists by rating. Right now the only the only way to view lists is to view the most recent lists created and work your way down from there. It would make finding good movies a lot easier. The current system sucks.
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Shen Xiang

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled User List filter.

I have been a user for IMDB for many years. There is one issue that has been quite awhile on the site.When i clicked on a movie and see the users list associated with the movie, I found those lists are no longer filtered by popularity(or view number). There used to be some really good user list I used as a movie guide. For example, MY ULTIMATE BEST MOVIES: 2000-2014 created by Dr-Faustus, which is directly accessible by clicking through a popular movie. I really enjoy reading those great user lists and find a movie I never see before. 
I don’t understand why IMDB removed such important feature on the site. Let’s say, I click on Avengers (2012) , now all of user lists are randomly sorted. Many user lists are simply something like “movie I watched today”,”my favorite movie this year”, which makes no sense compared to professional user list like MY ULTIMATE BEST MOVIES: 2000-2014. Please add back the option to see user list by popularity, otherwise I feel the user list features is not useful at all.
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Jere Leinonen

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Imdb lists are too hard to find, and when found it's almost impossible to find th....

Imdb lists are too hard to find. For example username TopTenner has done an amazing (and time consuming I can imagine) job creating, combining and calculating a list of 1001 best movies of all time according to four different websites. It would be perfect to somehow link this particular list to my profile since I definitely would want to look at it almost every day. The huge amount of work of creating massive lists goes to waste when there's no way for other users to save lists or "become friends with lists" or "add this list to your profile if you want to look at it more later". Please work on this improvement. Thank you.
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Dr-Faustus

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Displaying of User Lists.

Dear IMDb:

In regards to the column displaying User Lists on title pages:

Depending on the amount of related lists, your algorithm prevents larger lists from being displayed. Typically, less than 50 where popular films are concerned. Would you not agree that all your users should have the privilege of having their list or lists appear openly on the title-page? Regardless of a particular list's length. Could a function not be installed that works on a rotation basis, so that all related lists are displayed at one time or another, and equal opportunity given to other users?
I am quite certain this will not only be beneficial to listees, but, (through an increase in variety of lists openly displayed), also to those visiting the title pages on IMDb.
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Dr-Faustus

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Dear IMDb: User Lists on Title Pages:.

Presently, there are five user-lists visible on title-pages. Is there any possibility that maybe this number could be increased? Say, to about 10, and on a rotation basis. Where all related lists are featured at one time or another. Regardless of the number of titles any one list may contain.

Your faithfully
Dr-F.
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John

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled forumgooch@icloud.com.

Allow logged in IMDB members to vote a list up or down based on their valuation of the list. 
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whotheff

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Voting for user lists.

Hello team, i would like to propose an option to vote for user lists. Then they can enter a contest. and Top 250 most complete/interesting lists of movies. For example:

1. user visits my list and he likes it - he clicks "vote for this list"  (similar to FB likes)
2. lists gathers a lot of votes and goes to top 250 user lists

Also it will be useful for the user, who created the list to be able to receive recommendations from users with titles to add to this list.

Thanks!
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schatzoo

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Improving algorithm for finding great lists.

Currently the algorithm that selects which lists to show, e.g. beside an actors IMDb page is essentially useless. Yesterday I looked at Jake Gyllenhaal and a genius had made a list of the top 20 actors which showed up first on the right hand side. On top of the list was Adam Sandler as nr 1...

1. Sure lists are subjective. But maybe the algorithm used by IMDb for choosing the lists to promote isn't really optimal? Because it looked to me as it was biased toward idiots, while the ideally people with smart, funny, knowledgable, and thoughtful lists should be promoted. At least, these are the once I like to read.

2. An indication of the sub optimality (read: f*cked up) algorithm may be that all the lists displayed contained very few actors. Essentially max 20. Don't tell me the algorithm ranks higher lists with few actors, i.e. increase probability of showing up?

3. If you only collect positive feedback of lists, such as retweets, you might end up with only promoting lists which contains only "the most popular" actors or movies for the moment. The equivalent of Kim Kardashians tweets. At least add the possibility to vote down useless lists.

** end of rant **
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Shen Xiang

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled user list under movie page rank problem.

I think user list is a great way to look up movies. But the feature changed its way recently that no longer meets my need. For example, if I go to the page of "The Dark Knight" and look up user list. There are some pretty cool user list such as"ultimate 2000-2010", . Obviously, IMDB used to rank those list by view number and user comment. Till last year, I found the user list found through movie page to be very random. There are just random user list appear on the movie page, and since there are so many user list, it is hard to find those highly ranked list by looking the whole user list page. I don't know why IMDB did this.
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Gord Beacock

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Can you add a user rating system to "User Lists".

I love the idea of "User Lists" but they are becoming unusable.  They are great for finding titles that you didn't know about that are similar to titles you are viewing.  Unfortunately, there are far too many people who add everything they watch to a "User List", don't make any comments about it.  When I check out these list, it is no better than a list of random titles and has no meaning to me.  The worst part, is that the more titles on the list, they higher ranking they seem to get and the more likely they will appear attached to the title I'm viewing. Most common lists are in the hundreds of titles and some are in the thousands.  The interesting and useful lists are way down and never get seen.

Can you add a system for users of the lists to be able to rank the lists for interest and usefulness.  Hopefully, this will reduce the popularity of massive lists of titles and increase the popularity of more interesting lists.
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Dr-Faustus

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Was This List Helpful?.

To promote user-list functionality a feature identical to that which is found accompanying user reviews could be implemented. Where other users can cast their vote if a particular list is helpful or not. For example: '27 out of 58 found this helpful. Was this list helpful Yes / No (clickable).'
Most helpful can then be featured in order from top to bottom on the "Related lists from IMDb users" feature that appears visible on any given title-page.
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Dr-Faustus

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Select User-lists on the IMDb Main Page.

Dear IMDb:

Over time, title-pages as well as name-pages have included additional features displayed in the right-hand column. One of those features, the "Around The Web" feature, also appears on the IMDb main-page. My question is; could IMDb staff maybe consider also including a "User List" feature on the IMDb main-page? One that appears underneath the "Around The Web" feature, featuring User-lists selected by IMDb-Editors, based solely on criteria established by those editors.
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Frans

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Is it possible to filter out useless user lists using certain keywords in prefere....

When I review some actor/actress' name page, I'm not interested in lists about pretty/ugly or favourites. I'd like to filter those lists out; I do like to see lists like "played in foreign films" or "retired actors" as this gives more useful information (to me). However, these kind of lists are rarely featured on the name page.

I'd like to have a permanent keyword filter that I can set in my user preferences to blot the useless lists out.
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Emperor, Champion

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Sort related lists by outgoing clicks.

There are an awful lot of lists along the lines of "Film what I watched", "Stuff to download" (which must be rather galling for film-makers), "My DVD collection", etc. (I have similar lists but keep them private because no one is going to be interested) which are nice to for the person and their nosy friends but of very limited interest to the vast majority of visitors. The ones that could be of general use (like "Best Christmas films" on say "It's a Wonderful Life" - made up example but I'm sure some digging could find some prime examples of this), tend to get buried.

It feels like the related lists need better sorting to separate the signal from the noise and tracking who clicked on from the related lists seems the best measure of a lists relevance to a particular film, rather than trying to concoct some complex algorithm for relevance. However, I'd be even happier if there were a few options that you could use to sort the page (I suppose you could also sort by popularity - either by total visits or by the last 3 days worth, this might favour the larger lists but would also tend to push the personal lists down the page).
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whotheff

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what the problem is, is not that people create lists called "movies I've seen". There will always be such lists. The point is to organize, compare, give value to, tag and share the lists people like the most. For example: I have a list of "Best Sci-Fi movies I've seen" If there is an option to tag it with Sci-Fi lists and receive likes or stars and be put together and compared to other Sci-Fi tagged lists, users are going to be much more active. It was crippling enough that forums were removed. Now movie loving people use IMDB for checking some actors and facts, but they cannot share oppinions, discuss endings, etc. Now they do it on other sites. Promoting lists can compensate for that, partially atleast.
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Gord Beacock

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Thanks to whomever merged all the related posts.  Hopefully, this will get the attention of somebody on the IMDb staff and something will be implemented to allow ranking of User Lists.  If we keep posting on this topic, we can keep it active on the forum list.
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Col Needham, Official Rep

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(thanks, this was us organising the ideas better on Get Satisfaction for easier future review)
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Dr-Faustus

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Re-activating thread.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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User lists are what they are.
Rules need not exist to suit some small minority on lists.
I have actually gleaned some useful information from "Large" lists
Annoying to me is small related lists.
Lists that are totally unrelated and run of in a million different directions. Those are not wanted. I Agree.
But what is the solution?

While it may be nice to have an idea, it is also good to present an implementable plan.
Unfortunately, none here is being presented that is useful.

Who's gonna write the software?
Who's gonna decide what's relevant or not?
Who's gonna field the complaints when someone is unhappy that a list is left out, or when someone is unhappy that a list "IS" not left out, or when they are certain that some arbitrary rule was unfairly applied to their hard work?

Conclusion:


This will never get this implemented because of the animosity it would create.
Nice Idea = Extrapolated bad results overall!
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Ed Jones

There is always a solution to a problem. First one acknowledges the problem. Then one puts forward suggestions. Then one implements solutions that work. That is what this thread is all about. Why not put forward ideas that are constructive?
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I extrapolated what your idea would bring forth.
Unnecessary conflict.
It's that simple.

Re-quoting myself in case you glossed over why it wont work.

Who's gonna decide what's relevant or not?
Who's gonna field the complaints when someone is unhappy that a list is left out, or when someone is unhappy that a list "IS" not left out, or when they are certain that some arbitrary rule was unfairly applied to their hard work?
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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To Quote you...
Why not put forward ideas that are constructive?
Why should my replies only be constructive.
Are realistic observations out of bounds?
Are you suggesting I be silent if I have an opinion?
Or even worse, should I be silent if it does not agree with you?
And quite frankly my suggestions were constructive.
Why you ask?
Because they pointed out the conflicts that will arise if "your" idea were to ever be implemented.
Avoiding conflict is a constructive idea....Thank you very much!
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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And I'm done commenting.
On both threads.
Thanks.
But your making me restate the obvious.
I will not allow this to escalate.
We need to agree to disagree.
Cheers
:):)
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Ed Jones

Chill. He! he! What in heaven's name are you on about? As mentioned earlier the purpose of re-activating this thread is to try and promote positive input in regards to constructive changes to user-lists. I have no desire to get into a ridiculous sparring match with you. 
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I have no desire to get into a ridiculous sparring match with you.
I wont spar....but I will counter your replies with thoughtful rebuttals.

:):)
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Dr-Faustus

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You said you were done commenting. So why do you continue doing so? 

Thoughtful rebuttals? You mean the ones which have no relevance to the topic of this conversation? 

Please try to keep your inflated ego in check.
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Gord Beacock

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Why not put forward ideas that are constructive?

I did suggest that a rating system for lists would be useful to direct viewers to relevant lists.


Who's gonna decide what's relevant or not?
The people who view the list will decide.  If the list was interesting to them, they can give it a high rating.  If not, they can give it a low rating.  Just like the movies, it will be averaged out by multiple ratings.


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Jeorj Euler

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There is a strong chance that lists would be evaluated more so by what list authors present in the description fields than by the manner in which items are organized within the lists.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Jeorj Euler

True, that is a valid observation.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Gord Beacock

Now that's a constructive idea. I previously suggested a similar idea where an IMDb member can vote using the system similar to the one attached to User Reviews. Where one can vote if a list is useful by clicking on the Yes or No box. To my knowledge, this system of voting has not caused conflict among users.
(Edited)
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Ed Jones

The links above are either irrelevant to this discussion, date back years, or do not reflect what the majority of IMDb-users think. I advice anyone following this thread to  refer to the above links and make their own assessment and ascertain just how relevant they really are.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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The links above are relevant to this discussion, and yes do date back years, and do reflect what IMDb-users think. Your statement of a "Majority" is "GUESSING". Also your statement that says, "To my knowledge, this system of voting has not caused conflict among users", was also "GUESSING", and now since been de-bunked. Your advice to anyone following this thread to "READ" the above links and make their own assessment is commendable, but wording it in an effort to have that judgement favor your point of view only is rather odd, would you not say?

Thanks
:):)

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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Ed Jones 

Let's put things in perspective:

None of your links are relevant. Why? Because none of them relate to the up / down (Yes / No) function in relation to user-lists, which is the subject of my conversation above.The links you have supplied relate to the subject of "User Reviews".

Also; Your links only reflect what a handful of IMDb users think (years ago) which does not mean that is what the majority of IMDb users think, or, that they still maintain that same opinion. In other words, all you have said is pure conjecture. Also, I stick by my majority statement - please show me proof this is not the case. Where are the myriad of complaints if what you say is true?

"To my knowledge" is self-explanatory, how is that guessing?

Strange, you speak of judgment in favor of my point of view, where you have continuously attempted to do just that from the get-go. Whereas I have attempted to allow others to make up their own minds. Kinda hypocritical would you not say?

I have explained to you clearly, since the start, the reasoning behind me re-activating this thread, but you have decided to disrespect that. You have offered no positive input. Only cynicism. For instance; How can you state: "This will never get implemented because of the animosity it would create." when nothing has been implemented? That is pure conjecture on your part. There is no way to predict what the outcome will be.

Please, let IMDb staff and those at head-office decide what gets implemented and what does not.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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The links are relevant. Why? Because they relate to an up / down (Yes / No) function in use already and has conflicts which is subject of your conversation above.The links supplied do indeed relate to the subject of "User Reviews". Look how much discourse there is on the up/down system there.

Whats the difference in an opinion on a movie and an opinion on a what is in a list as movies related to that movie? An opinion by an individual. List or review, it is their opinion. And down voting is hurtful and serves only to ridicule and mock the list maker.
In todays society that is not acceptable. We should all remember that it is not nice to hurt others feelings.
Thanks
:):)
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Dr-Faustus

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No, the links are not relevant. As I have already pointed out, I am referring specifically to "User-Lists" with the Yes/No function attached. And, as you have pointed out, your links point to "User Reviews". The minor discourse you want to sell off as major discourse that relates to "User Reviews" cannot be applied to "User-Lists". Those are two very different entities. Pure conjecture, once again.

Are you kidding me. The voting & rating system on IMDb is based on opinion. That is how people differentiate between good and bad. By your reasoning if down voting is hurtful and only serves to mock the list maker and is not acceptable in today's society, then by your reasoning it should also apply to everything else as well. You are setting a very dangerous precedent, that by any stretch of the imagination is wholly unacceptable in today's society.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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No, the links are not relevant.
Yes, the links are relevant.

The minor discourse you want to sell off as major discourse that relates to "User Reviews" cannot be applied to "User-Lists

It's not minor. It is indeed a major discourse that relates to "User Reviews" and it can be applied to "User-Lists if voting were allowed.
Complaints would be unavoidable and inevitable.

Are you kidding me. The voting & rating system on IMDb is based on opinion. That is how people differentiate between good and bad........
And that system too is constantly complained about as well. Need I provide more links on that as well.


No Sir.
IMDb has enough problems with voting. Adding any more methods of voting on any thing further will just create more problems than it would solve.

Cheers
Thanks
:):)
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Dr-Faustus

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This is truly a sad spectacle indeed.

Provide all the links you want, it still does not represent what the majority of IMDb-users think. You are just clutching at straws. 

Get over it and move on, Ed.
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Jeorj Euler

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Hi, Dr-Faustus. Initially Ed was merely informing you that the voting aspect of IMDb user review system has caused conflict among users. By the way, it is never too clear what a majority of IMDb users think about particular features of the site, so we really wouldn't know for sure. I mean you no offense, but Ed has produced more evidence on the relevant subject matter than you have.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Jeorj Euler 

You appear to be a rational, intelligent, and well-mannered person. Please do me this favor: All I ask of you is read what I have to say without bias. And derive at your own conclusion. Please, don't base your conclusion solely on the fact that you may be friends with another. I am sure you are well aware an "us versus them" mentality unfortunately does not solve problems. Hopefully you can accept that.

I am very aware Ed was "initially" informing me "... the voting aspect of IMDb system has caused conflict among users." I am not disputing that. The fact is, regardless of what system in the public domain is instated, it "will" cause "varying" degrees of conflict. That is a given. However, one must therefor ascertain to what degree. If it is established the pros outweigh the cons, the system remains. Does anyone really think the experts at IMDb and Amazon will allow such a system if they found it to be detrimental to their business model? Of course not. That is why user reviews remain. Here is another example of this: I am sure you are very aware of the public outcry caused by changes to the IMDb main page. Way more in numbers than that of the user reviews. So why don't they simply resort back to the old page? Because IMDb and Amazon policy makers have established most users accept this change. How did they come to that conclusion? The number of complaints is minuscule when compared to the number of users that actually visit IMDb on a daily basis - who, if they were unhappy, would in all likelihood complain about it and thus push the number of complaints up exponentially. Forcing a change. Or, this unhappiness would translate itself in relation to the number of visits on the IMDb main page itself. Therefor, it is very reasonable to establish that the number of satisfied customers lies in the majority, when based on the evidence at hand. By the way, the very lack of evidence itself in so far as complaints are concerned is ironically evidence itself.

You state "... but Ed has produced more evidence on the relevant subject matter than you have." I am sorry, but the relevant subject matter that has been stated over and over again, "ad naseam", is "solutions". Solutions to problems with user-lists.Though it is obviously necessary to take any potential problems into consideration, the topic of the conversation is not simply pointing that out, but finding "solutions". Surely, anyone reading that must understand what that entails. Therefor, either Ed Jones has misunderstood the question, or simply refuses to do so. Making comparisons to user review complaints and then stating a voting system cannot work, based simply on that observation, is pure conjecture. How can one derive at a steadfast conclusion before the fact? It is impossible. Unless someone has the ability to team-travel, that is. I have already pointed out in my previous paragraph issues regarding complaints and their impact.

And lastly, though there is without a doubt a treasure of information on Get Satisfaction, Get Satisfaction cannot be used solely as a means to decide what changes need or need not be made. It must be used in conjunction with numerous other factors, which must be taken into consideration. One has to look at the bigger picture when making any such decisions.

Anyway Jeorj, if you decided to read through this entire post, thanks for taking the time in doing so.

Peace
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I ask that you not bring up my name if you do not wish me to reply.
Jeorj is intelligent. He and I have had far more heated debates than you and I have had here. But while we may have disagreed, we have never complained about one another, nor "reported" each other to IMDb as trolls. And believe this, it was far less civil than I have been to you. I have been curt but polite all through this "debate" which you let deteriorate into a labeling and name calling festival.

If you'll notice, I have not rebutted anything you just said. I do not need to "this time".
Now all I ask of you is the very same thing you asked of me.
Please cease defaming my good name and attacking my position, it is what you asked of me.
I respectfully ask in return the same.
Thank you
:):)
(Edited)
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Dr-Faustus

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I have been advised not to enter into any conversations with you. Please respect that from your side.

Thank-you
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Jeorj Euler

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Well, we're all intelligent. (Expressing this about somebody is almost meaningless.) Regardless how intelligent we are, I did not intend to get Dr-Faustus to reply the way that he has on the subject of our dear Ed here, which should not even be a subject, but every so often he does become something of a topic. I had also forgotten about, or had never been aware of, the existing tension between the two participants of the forum. Certainly, I should have figured (since there a lot of people here who've been in conflict with Ed, at one time or another), but I lean toward assuming that interpersonal conflicts on forums like this one simply go away after a while. Well, they ought! Roughly-speaking, none of us will ever forget the conflicts we have had with other participants of the forum, but it should not be a reason to stay in perpetual doubt about those with whom we have "fought" or "molested" (or "played games with"), so to speak. I suggest trying to assume good faith, like how Wikipedians try to do.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi there Jeorj Euler

This is in no way intended to start an argument, but I would just like to point a few things out:

Here is a definition of intelligence; "Intelligence has been defined in many ways: the capacity for logic, understanding, self-awareness, learning, emotional knowledge, reasoning, planning, creativity, critical thinking, and "problem solving"." What i said, and I quote; "You "appear" to be...intelligent..." Use that in context with the definition given. 

Mentioning "dear" Ed, as you put it, was not something I had planned on doing. However, your previous post, aimed directly for my reading, with my name attached, makes clear mention of Ed. So how can you possibly expect me not to mention him if you directly referred to him in the context of the conversation? That's ridiculous.

I understand you are trying to divert blame to me in starting a conversation about, "you know who". I also stick up for my friends, that's normal. However, a true friend is also willing to tell a friend when he is wrong, or if he doesn't agree to something he has done or said. As mentioned above I asked you to please view this situation without bias.

"Assume good faith" - I agree with that. So let's follow that.

Thanks
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Jeorj Euler

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We ought to bear in mind that IMDb lists of IMDb titles are intended to work in the same way as IMDb lists of IMDb names. Unless there is a proposal that the kinds of IMDb lists be treated differently, we should be discussing the organization of "related lists" in general.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi, once again, Jeorj Euler

Great, thanks for bringing forward this idea. Do you have any suggestions relating to the organization of related lists? I would love to hear from you if you do.

Thanks
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Jeorj Euler

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I'm not entirely sure that the "problem" clear, though. A year or two ago, I awarded this thread this "me too" heart because it indeed seems like some more tools concerning navigating Related Lists would be useful. Most recently the idea of sorting the default presentation of the lists via algorithmic processing of "popular" conscious feedback has been floated. Right now there aren't any options at all, but instead pages and pages of Related Lists; and for each one, we the IMDb non-staff and Web-surfing public at large only see the primary image associated with the first item in an IMDb list along with the subject heading or moniker assigned to the list by the author of the list. I wish I knew how the existing algorithm already worked. I would work from there as far as thinking of "solutions" to the challenges faced by navigating the Related Lists sections.