PS: Movie Stars Who've Never Been Nominated for an Oscar

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Which of these movie stars, who've never been nominated for an Oscar, do you think deserve an Oscar nomination the most?

My list: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls087655534/
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Hoekkie

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Posted 2 months ago

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Breumaster

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In the case of Alan Rickman, it would be a post hum Oscar, because he died in 2016.
He would deserve it.
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Breumaster

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https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0117709/
Daniel Brühl
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0356448/
Dieter Hallervorden
or is it only about English and American actors?
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Breumaster

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Breumaster

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albstein

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Jean Gabin
Toshiro Mifune
Klaus Kinski

If we go by international actors, we could probabyl fill several polls. There could also be separate polls for women and men.
(Edited)
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Breumaster

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Kinski? He was just a psychotic person. That's why his play was intense. Did you see his behavior in "Wetten Dass?" or some interviews? But I agree with Jean Gabin and Toshiro Mifune. ;)
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Breumaster

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Q: "If we go by international actors, we could probabyl fill several polls. There could also be separate polls for women and men." Eoq

Yes and no. Some People like Amalric & Reno worked in American productions, so aren't they adequate?
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albstein

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There's a reason Werner Herzog made five movies with Kinski. He was a pestilence but no one could do it better. Listen to this for one minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai4ZDUNycec

Neither was Kinski a madman in all of his films. His Nosferatu is a totally different, more reserved kind of monster than Aguirre, and actually has touching moments of longing.

Regarding international actors, aside from a few exceptions, even the best ones have very low chances to be nominated. Anyway, there are so many good actors who never been nominated that we could sort them into categories.

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Breumaster

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I would agree with that video. But his daughters also state that he wasn't a good dad. At home he must have been nearly as impulsive as on set. His daugthers stated him as a tyrant.
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albstein

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Unfortunately, many great actors are also horrible people. See Kevin Spacey, Joan Crawford, Charlie Chaplin, and many others.
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Breumaster

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But according to Wikipedia Germany, his daughter Pola wrote a book called "Kindermund" in which she wrote about his abuse of her at age 5 to 19. In the article it was said that he alledgedly told Herzog, that on what he did to Pola and Nastassja, he would have get a 20 year term in the USA.
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albstein

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The poll has been done before (link), but there's always room for part 2.
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Breumaster

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Ok, even the same images.
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albstein

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It's a people poll, which means the images are always the same that appear on their IMDb page.
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Breumaster

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Dumb me. :D
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albstein

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Happens to everyone
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Hoekkie

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I searched but couldn’t find the already existing poll. I don’t want to make a part 2 poll. So go ahead if you like to make it albstein or Breumaster.
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Breumaster

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Hoekkie

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Yes I saw the link. I meant I couldn’t find the similar poll before I made this poll suggestion.
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albstein

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Really, Hoekkie? Breumaster, do you want to do it?
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Breumaster

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Yes, but I wait for Kyle's answere. If he's ok with it , I got a list of 26 candidates since now.
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Breumaster

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To be clear: I refuse Kinski, if I do that PS.
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albstein

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Well, it would be your poll then, though in my opinion you didn't give any reasons for the refusal.
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Breumaster

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If Kyle agrees to give it away, you also could do it. But we should clear it up, who does, before. If you want, you might do. I could give you examples for consideration, but I won't put Kinski to the list.
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albstein

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I don't think I'll make any polls right now, so you can have it. I don't understand why the private life and the personal temper of an actor matters with regards to his acting ability, but again it's your poll and your decision then.
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Breumaster

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I think he had a few normality in his person. I see a abomination, which was used for movies. Did you see the bible sessions of him? He was such a destroyed person, at the end he believed, he was Jesus and held sessions of his own bible cult, where he shouted at people, that they're assholes and things like that - for normal logical questions! Sorry, but I think Herzog just abused a psychological destroyed person for his movies. Herzog used Kinskis accumulations for the effect! Kinski should have been locked into a padded cell.
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albstein

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Then apparently a few dozen directors abused him, because he was in many movies. The directors include Sergio Leone, David Lean, Sergio Corbucci and Andrzej Zulawski.

If you look at these scenes, do you really tell me that there is no deliberate, professional acting there?

Nosferatu, his gestures, facial expresions and how he talks about the children of the night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVTNFUfogTY&t=4m0s
For a Few Dollars more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuFMPI4CJTE&t=0m45s
Woyzeck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kd3CX1Th60&t=2m46s

And I don't know why actors should have normality, of all things - ausgerechnet. If you look at actors' private lives you will find craziness and human abysses (Marlon Brando, Nicolas Cage, Russell Crowe, the list is endless). I've neard a film theorist, historian or critic dismiss an actor because of his psychological condition.

And we don't even know what that condition would be, we are not psychiatrists who can go back in time and diagnose him. We can't even be sure if some of Kinski's antics were just there for the show, to create publicity. Remote diagnoses (Ferndiagnosen) are always unreliable.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Breumaster and albstein my five cents on the Klaus Kinski situation: people absolutely can be both talented and a complete monster/psychopath/irredimable villain. It's a tragedy of life and human nature rarely acknowledged, barely studied and in dire need of attention. I call situations like that "Hitler was a bad artist". Because he was not, but a) most people would rather admit he was not those making disservice to whole artistry in general and b) many people would totally call his art bad just being affected by who did it. Show them the paintings anonimously and you will have entirely different reaction. 

Kinski was by all accounts an uncontrollable monster of a man who only fewer directors were able to tame more than once. He was also a professional very much capable of subtle performances, fewer of the directors ever tried to assign him, because that required a level of control and supervision over him. 
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Breumaster

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At the moment, I'm waiting for Kyles ok to use his idea for a second part. As long as he doesn't give his ok, I'll put this idea on ice. Until that day, more peope can give this comment a like. If it reaches more likes, I'll put Kinski on the list. But when you think Hollywood would have honored him by knowing about his criminal deeds, you woud be wrong. Just look at Kevin Spacey. He is done one gives him work. He once was famous. And now he is treated as a criminal.

There is a video about another me too guy that shows it to the point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPpoKquOG5Q
 
I don't know what really happened between them. And because of Kinskis dead, there are no further investigations about him. If some more like this comment, I'l put him on the list, but it's clearly not my idea, even though I never thought that he is a really good actor. But I accept that you both think it. When I looked at his work, I always just saw a guy who runs beside the tracks. Seeing him caused unnormal feeings to me, subconciously. That might be interesting for some people
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Breumaster

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At the moment, I'm waiting for Kyles ok to use his idea for a second part. As long as he doesn't give his ok, I'll put this idea on ice. Until that day, more peope can give this comment a like. If it reaches more likes, I'll put Kinski on the list. But when you think Hollywood would have honored him by knowing about his criminal deeds, you woud be wrong. Just look at Kevin Spacey. He is done one gives him work. He once was famous. And now he is treated as a criminal.

There is a video about another me too guy that shows it to the point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPpoKquOG5Q
 
I don't know what really happened between them. And because of Kinskis dead, there are no further investigations about him. If some more like this comment, I'l put him on the list, but it's clearly not my idea, even though I never thought that he is a really good actor. But I accept that you both think it. When I looked at his work, I always just saw a guy who runs beside the tracks. Seeing him caused unnormal feeings to me, subconciously. That might be interesting for some people
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albstein

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But when you think Hollywood would have honored him by knowing about his criminal deeds, you woud be wrong.
Now that is a wholly different question. I don't think Hollywood would have nominated Kinski. But it is almost equally unlikely they would have nominated Gabin, Mifune, etc. And back in the 70s, I think the Academy had lower standards with regards to the moral conduct of their nominees.

I never thought that he is a really good actor

To quote the poll FAQ:

We are generally avoiding running polls of the form Choose among my personal favorites of ... A poll entitled Great Organized Crime Films of the 1970s should include The Godfather (1972) even if you are not personally fond of it. As a poll author you are balancing objective completeness/entertainment value/succinctness.
It's better to rely on popularity and critical consensus than on your own personal opinion. And there is definitely a consensus among film fans and critics that Kinski was a great actor.

I'll add somthing in German to avoid misunderstandings:

Ich mache mich nicht so sehr für Kinski stark, weil ich unbedingt will, dass er in die Umfrage kommt. Sondern ich glaube, du argumentierst von einem sehr subjektiven Standpunkt und ich will dir objektive Gründe aufzeigen, warum es erwägenswert ist, ihn aufzunehmen.

Ich weiß nicht, wie viel du überhaupt von Kinski gesehen hast. Die verlinkten Szenen machen, wie ich finde, sehr deutlich, dass diese Schauspielleistungen nicht einfach auf echte Wutausbrüche zurückzuführen sind, sondern man merkt ein hohes Maß an Kontrolle, sehr bewusst und effektvoll gesetzte Gesichtsausdrücke und Gesten sowie wechselnden Einsatz der Stimme und Betonung.

Das ist auch nicht nur Nikolays und meine Meinung, sondern wird in diversen Kritiken und Bestenlisten anerkannt.

Ob du ihn dann aufnimmst, ist deine Sache. Schließlich hat eine Umfrage nur 35 Einträge und es gibt noch viele andere Schauspieler, die es vielleicht auch verdient hätten. Du musst ihn ja auch nicht gut finden. Aber ich finde, eine Ablehnung sollte gut durchdacht sein, einer genaueren Betrachtungsweise standhalten und ein gewisses Maß an Objektivität enthalten (auch wenn wir in diesem Fall nicht so objektiv sein können, dass wir einfach eine Liste übernehmen oder so).

(Edited)
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Breumaster

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1.) albstein, ich weiß das. Aber ist jemanden von diesem zweifelhaften Character in eine Ehrungsliste aufzunehmen, nicht auch moralisch zweifelhaft. Bei aller Neutralität, wenn man dem Buch seiner Tochter Pola trauen kann, ist es schon merkwürdig, ihn ehren zu wollen, findest Du nicht? Ich finde es auch gut den Autor eines Werkes und sein Privatleben zu trennen, sonst müsste ich auch mein Haus einreißen, wenn ich nachträglich erführe daß einer der Maurer seine Frau geschlagen und vergewaltigt hat. Aber ich muss den ausgedachten Maurer halt nicht ehren, oder? Da ich nicht wirklich weiß was da war, bis auf die Behauptungen seiner Tochter, habe ich die Haltung eh' schon aufgeweicht. Aber findest Du es falsch, diese Bedenken trotzdem einzuräumen?

2.)  Habe ich es öffentich zur Diskussion gestellt, ob das ok für andere User wäre, per like-Abstimmung. Grenze? 5? 10?

3.) Es steht Dir immer noch zu die Sache selbst zu übernehmen, wenn Kyle sein ok gibt. Aber ich will ihm die Idee nicht einfach so klauen. Trotzdem wäre es schade, die Idee sausen zu lassen.
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albstein

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Das ist ja jetzt etwas völlig anderes. Wenn es dir nicht um die schauspielerische Leistung geht, brauche ich natürlich nichts darüber schreiben.

Was die Ehrung fragwürdiger Menschen angeht, so erkenne ich deinen Standpunkt an, auch wenn ich anderer Meinung bin. Denn wo zieht man die Grenze? Auch wenn Kinski ein besonders großes Scheusal war, so gibt es doch so einige Vergewaltiger, Kinderschänder, Gewalttäter und Rassisten unter bekannten Schauspielern und Regisseuren.

Eine Umfrage will ich zurzeit wie gesagt nicht machen, von daher hast du da freie Fahrt. IMDb zieht mich abseits von bestimmten Diskussionen nicht mehr an. Die Diskussionskultur hat doch ziemlich gelitten. Bei dir und ein paar anderen mache ich eine Ausnahme, weil wir trotz Meinungsverschiedenheiten gesittet miteinander umgehen können.

Übrigens kann ich Kyle in der IMDb Facebook-Gruppe fragen, ob er für Teil 2 seinen Segen gibt. Er schaut ja nur noch selten hier vorbei.
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Breumaster

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albstein:
We should return to english for being polite to our hosts. :)
Thank you albstein. It's always nice to have a coversation with you. To draw a border is especially hard when it comes to the question of what is acceptabe. That's the same in the case of BLM. Everyone has his own borders, that's normal, because we are not cloned to be all the same person. And that might be also a good thing.
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Breumaster

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When it comes to Kyle: Please ask him, though you got better contact.
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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Bruemaster,

If you wish, you can join our Facebook group.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/imdb.poll.board/

I think the user you're talking about is active on Facebook. You can try to contact them there.
(Edited)
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albstein

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Breumaster, sorry I hadn't seen your answer. I just contacted Kyle on Facebook.
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albstein

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Kyle just gave his okay. You can do the sequel.
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Breumaster

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I state it at the end of this list, making a new thread.
It would have been better Kyle gave his ok himself, but ok.
(Edited)
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rocky-o

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great list...one i would add is the brilliantly understated bill nighy...a magnificent actor....
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Breumaster

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Great actor! :)
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Gitte Løyche

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Suggestion: You should add Tom Hiddleston - apart from making the villain more popular than the hero (Loki), his performance as Hank Williams in 'I Saw The Light' should have got him one https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1490785/Tom Hiddleston Picture
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Breumaster

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If I'd do the second list, he woud be in!
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Breumaster

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I've put them on the (still offline) list. If Kyle says ok, I'd start a new threat.
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Breumaster

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Now counting 28 Stars.
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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FYC:

Keanu Reeves



The Man, The Myth, The Legend.
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Breumaster

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I've put him on the still hidden (and still discussable) list.
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Breumaster

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please no actors of this list:
https://www.imdb.com/poll/cmpbsLaW80A/results
I've counted back from 29 to 28 because Raul Julia was also on my list, but shouldn't.
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Breumaster

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I would appreciate excellent female actors.
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rocky-o

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a brilliant actress...judy davis...
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Breumaster

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Hi, Rocky. :D
Judy Davis? She was already nominated for two Oscars, so no. But she would be a good pick, if she wasn't. :D
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rocky-o

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my apologies...for some reason i thought it was for those who never won....not enough coffee i guess....
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scorsese86 .

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John Goodman. No doubt. I mean, "Barton Fink"...
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Breumaster

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Goodman is on the first list, so no. But he is a good pick for sure. ;)
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Cyril Martin

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Breumaster

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Sure, but he was on the former list. We do another one.
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Breumaster

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This is canceled, we make a new suggestion of this, because albstein stated that Kyle gave his ok.