Live Poll: Most Overrated Movie of 2019

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  • Updated 3 months ago
  • (Edited)
It is about to end this 2019, it has left us great movies, but since the cinema is subjective we probably found them overrated movies. What do you think was the most overrated movie of this 2019? As much as by the public as by the critics.

List: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls091486020/

Poll: https://www.imdb.com/poll/1WOa8Imh8PI/
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joe siegel

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Posted 8 months ago

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cinephile

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Avengers: Endgame 
and Uncut Gems (a movie with Adam Sandler can't be good)
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Pencho15

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Actually Punch Drunk Love and The Meyerowitz Stories are good. But they are certainly exceptions.
(Edited)
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joe siegel

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Well, I will not judge before seeing, Adam Sandler seems to me an actor who has wasted his career, under the direction of the PTA showed that only a good director is needed for the good actor inside go outside.
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rubyfruit76, Champion

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He has done some awful movies but he's done a few good ones, like Pencho said, and Uncut Gems is from a good director and has a Metacritic score of 90. He has done and said some things that are offensive but like his previous movies, they aren't predictive of the quality of Uncut Gems. I haven't seen it yet but I'm looking forward to seeing it very soon. 
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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albstein

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I don't know what to make of Uncut Gems but it's a far cry from your typical stupid Adam Sandler flick. Which should not be a surprise to anyone who saw the Safdie Brothers' second most recent movie.
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rocky-o

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have to agree with cinephile...anything with adam sandler can't be rated low enough....
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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I've seen a handful of okay Sandler flicks (if that hand belongs to a tiny newborn); reminds me of a joke RiffTrax: A Talking Cat (I may paraphrase 'cause I can't remember it word for word):

Girl (talking about Hamlet): "It's about a man who doesn't go after what he wants even though it's right in front of him."
Kevin: "That's also the plot of EVERY Adam Sandler movie, so don't get all high and mighty!"
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Unhappy Gil-less!
Saturday Night Live got livelier when he left!
(Edited)
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15yearsIMDber aka ElMo

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So far I'm not disappointed by the movies but from the trailer, "Les Misérables" strikes me as a rather biased anti-Police film... I may be wrong but the film has been vividly criticized here in France.
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joe siegel

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Do you think it's an "overrated" movie?
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15yearsIMDber aka ElMo

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I didnt watch the film... but it seems like a divisive movie. Detractors might find it dangerously manipulative... so kind of overrated.
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joe siegel

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Les Miserables, added
(Edited)
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eye M.D.B

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Just to distinguish the terminologies here without defending les Miserables (I don't even like musicals) :Divisive is something different than overrated.Anything which does criticise society for example ends up being divisive by offending half of the population, but often such movies are more valuable than some which are all honky-dory.So vice versa - divisive movies often are likely to be underrated by offended 1-star-downvoters.
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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Are we talking about the Les Miserables musical?  It's actually great, in my opinion.  As far as being anti-police, I didnn;t get that. The punishment for a poor booy stealing food was much too harsh, back then.  But reguardless of the plot, the music is great and the best thing about it is that it's a musical with dignity - not cheesy High School Musical stuff.
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eye M.D.B

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So true!That was a good example of premature condemnation of a historical documentation which is misunderstood in todays context.
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Peter, Champion

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Les Misérables from this year is not a musical, but a modern drama which only borrows its title from the Victor Hugo story.
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eye M.D.B

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Ah, sorry, I did mistake it then with the musical from 2012, because I wasn't aware with a newer production with that name. Hence I withdraw my previous comment.

I wish they wouldn't reuse already used titles when there are endless possibilities to name it different or slightly alter the name (as Coppola did with Dracula by simply naming it "Bram Stoker's Dracula").
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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Ah, yes... I remember seeing a poster for that.  That's not the musical, lol.  :)  I withdraw my previous comment, too.
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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FYC:
The Lion King.
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joe siegel

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I thought it would be stupid to add The Lion King, because nobody seems to care about that movie, however after being nominated in the Golden Globes I could realize how overrated it really was.
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cinephile

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It was nominated at Golden Globes, because they wanted to make fun of Disney, there is no way it will win, it deserves a Razzie Award.
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James The Movie Guy

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FYC- Captain Marvel
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James The Movie Guy

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Are you going to add Captain Marvel? It's the single most generic superhero movie I've ever seen, I really don't get the hype behind it besides it starring a female protagonist. DC two years ago released Wonder Woman, a female driven superhero movie that not only had a likeable star but was also directed by a female director! I know Marvel fans will crucify me for saying this but it just wasn't very good.
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joe siegel

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Yes, added, it's really bad and overrated by MCU fans
(Edited)
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James The Movie Guy

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It will definitely get my vote 
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Pencho15

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I haven't seen it, but looking at the 50 most voted films, Polar seems to have the biggest in critics and viewers love. 
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cinephile

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I don't understand what you were trying to say.
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Pencho15

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Sorry, I deleted a line, it has the biggest difference between the metacritic rating and the IMDb users rating, so you could argue it is very overrated by users.
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cinephile

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I think it is a little bit underrated, it is not very different from Tarantino movies. 
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joe siegel

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I try to find an average balance between the opinion of critics and the public, this movie has a Metascore score of just "19"
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riverotter

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FYC: Suspiria
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James The Movie Guy

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The original Dario Argento movie is one of my favourite horror movies, it's got so much style and is absolutely unrelenting! I couldn't bring myself to watch the remake...
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joe siegel

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Suspiria is from 2018 :D
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Stephen Atwood

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How is Suspiria (2018) overrated?
For something to be overrated, some group or population must have had at least valued the project numerically high? Critically and audience wise? It's all mixed reviews. No one particular population openly loved in (in their monolithical collective voice). And it didn't win any awards.

Yeah it won two Independent Spirit Awards but it also won a Yoga Award (WTH that is) for Worst Director.

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Hoekkie

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Irishman, I think the rating will be around 7.5 in 1 or 2 years. For me it’s a 4/10
(Edited)
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Daniel H

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Parasite
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rubyfruit76, Champion

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Definitely 'Joker:' A great performance but the second half of the film just got in the way. It seems that the writer and director never heard that "less is more." 
(Edited)
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cinephile

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Nah, this movie made the best quote of the decade:

Joker: I'll tell you what you get! You get what you fuckin' deserve!

This moment was so surprising, and it left me (and the whole audience) speechless in the theater.

Literally, speechless no one was talking,

Interesting:
but a 6 years old girl was crying in the theater (don't ask me why their parents brought her to "Joker" or why the employee sold them a ticket). The movie is 13+ in my country and you can get fine for selling a ticket to a 13+ movie to someone younger.
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Dracko

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The movie I have with a lower score is 'Endgame' but I met a lot of people who also despise this horrendous movie, and this seem to be loved by fans. So my choice would be Joker or Us, movies that were inflated by critics and people for being a supposed social criticism, however they are still faulty commercial movies, I enjoyed Joker a lot but I have heard so many people and critics say that this is the "best movie of the year" that became tormenting for me, and on the other hand 'Us' It's a movie with a silly script, almost as dumb as 'Get Out'
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rubyfruit76, Champion

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I agree, especially about 'Joker,' and from your choice of favorite films of 2019, I think that we probably have similar taste. And while I've also seen or heard a few critics rave about it, it got a Metacritic score of only 59. I wouldn't even give it quite that but it's certainly not a high meta score. 

I generally don't go to see superhero movies, as my estimate of them is similar to  Martin Scorsese's so I didn't see Endgame. 
(Edited)
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eye M.D.B

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I agree with most above, especially Endgame which, considering that it had Stan Lee's last cameo was the end of his era for me.

And I strongly assume that the current running Starwars may also be added - I have such a bad feeling about it that for me this also marked the end of the Starwars-era, but this time even without even bothering to throw my money at them.
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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I've got a bad feeling about the Star Wars franchise, lol...  :)
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eye M.D.B

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I never was actually into the entire Star-Wars-hype - too ethical black & white for me, but since the remakes each movie some other friend pulled me into the next movie again.
And now I actually have a good feeling:first for finally having managed to stand my ground,
and secondly for having a Narnia Lion as an ally ;-)


(Edited)
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joe siegel

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Yes, this last film was the end of Star Wars, although SW had already finished a long time ago they only wanted to extend the life of the franchise to generate the fortune that generated the last trilogy, however Rise of Skywalker does not seem to be as overrated as any another movie on the list, a Metascore score of 54/100 and a 7.0 score on IMDb.
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joe siegel

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it is worth mentioning that there are no empty spaces in my list
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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eye,
I hear you.  The originals are okay entertainment, especially for the 70's-80's, but after the prequels and reboots, I purely loathe it.  :/  Too cheesy for me.  And yes, people I know are always gigantic fans (but that's their business) trying to get meto like it, too.  They don't understand that I Am Dragon (2015) is more my syle.  :D

joe: Actually, this is not the end of Star Wars... https://screenrant.com/star-wars-movies-after-rise-skywalker-release-dates/
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joe siegel

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The first trilogy is more than pure entertainment, the rest is history, it really is bad news that SW does not end with this movie, Disney turned SW into a kind of Marvel, premiering movies every year, in a nutshell, Disney is its own competition, it has the two franchises that sell the most under its power by exploiting them to the limit.
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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I used to think it was sad when they dropped the Narnia films, 20th Century thend dropping it after one, but now I'm pretty glad; if they'd have kept on making them they would've become a farce with the likes of SW.
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eye M.D.B

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Yeah, that's a great point, Narnia: Too often sequels loose out to the original movies because the originals had literally an original idea behind it, and the sequels merely try to fill in the created form with usually no creative content anymore: Movies which jump straight to my mind are "The butterfly effect" and "The Matrix" and also TLOR which was great until they sucked its last drop out of it by creating the Hobbit-farces.
And Joe: How you described Disney reminds me of major washing-powder companies who also do create multiple brands just to suck anything out of the market.
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eye M.D.B

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Narnia, I will watch "I am Dragon" because of you. (And maybe Narnia once more).
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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Thanks, lol - if you don't like them no hard feelings.  :)
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eye M.D.B

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I liked Narnia already so I wil find it likely that I also will ike the other movie we both liked.

On a persnal note: Soon I will quit this account and IMDB purlely for the reason that I lost myself too much in social networking,
but I want to thank you, Narnia-lion and Joe Heisenberg for having given me a harmonious and peaceful ending to remember! <3
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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Oh, thank you, too!  :)  
Image result for narnia aslan gif
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Stephen Atwood

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FYC: Joker (2019)
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joe siegel

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joe siegel

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*Bump*
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Ardan Tüzünsoy

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I haven't even seen most of these, so I can't judge. But I can say this: If you asked me which one of these would you rather NOT watch at all costs, I'd say John Wick.
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Dracko

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FYC
The Two Popes
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joe siegel

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Added, I thought I had added it before.
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Breumaster

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'John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum'  !
(Edited)
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goddangwatir

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Probably Joker or Avengers: Endgame. To be honest, I have not actually watched the latter, but ... can it really be THAT good ? I have heard people compare it to the Shawshank Redemption and the Usual Suspects, to that I say; no way.

I found Joker to be quite enjoyable, amazing performance by Phoenix who I think should win a long overdue Academy Award, but is it really better than masterpieces such as Once Upon a Time in the West, Apocalypse Now or Das Boot ?

A worthy contender would be Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood. I can maybe see where people are coming from, but to me, it's just an average Tarantino flick.
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cinephile

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1)
For me, Joker is better than Apocalypse Now, Das Boot, or Once Upon a Time in the West (I prefer the "in America" one)


2)
I agree with you on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I don't like Tarantino

The worst for me is that Tarantino says (himself) that he put so much violence just for fun.

For example,

Spoiler: Was it really necessary that the last Manson family member in the movie burned to death by Rick with a Flame Thrower. I mean what is the goal of the Flamethrower, I don't find it fun, I found it exaggerated, and at a certain point, I think that Rick Dalton was not in legitimate defense which made me think that maybe Quentin Tarantino are glorifying violence. Yes, you can say that the Manson member who was burned would have made way worst if she was not killed, but in the movie at the end, you can see that the girl who burned only shot Cliff (who didn't die) 

So in my opinion, You can't really consider that the Manson members in the movie deserved their deaths.
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James The Movie Guy

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It's implied though the infamous Manson murders take place directly after Rick Dalton enters the Polanski residence. The whole idea of the film is it portrays the end of an era, that being the 60s, and before these talented actors and filmmakers were killed by the Manson cult they lived their lives to the fullest. I do think Tarantino can be gratuitous with his violence sometimes but in this film I found it justified. Let those psychos burn I say! 
(Edited)
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joe siegel

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It was total legitimate defense, some psychopaths were assalting his house, in fact Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is Tarantino movie that offers less violence, all the violence that is downloaded in the end is catartic and a good way to reach the climax of the movie.
(Edited)
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goddangwatir

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I feel like the violence in OUATIH was rather unnecessary. It just comes out of nowhere and ends just as fast as it came. In movies such as Django Unchained or Inglorious Basterds, the violence was handled very well, it is infact almost a need I think. But in OUATIH, I felt that Tarantino just decided (as you said cinephile) to throw it in for fun in order to craft a climax. It doesn't work that way.
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James The Movie Guy

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I can see where your argument is coming from but I thought the use of occasional violence towards the end suited the context of the narrative, that being the end of the 60s and the looming dread of the Manson murders throughout the movie. The only part in that scene that seemed overly gratuitous to me was when Cliff slammed that girl's head in around five times, that wasn't really necessary but I guess to Tarantino he wanted to show the consequences of threatening violence in real life opposed to using violence in movies to entertain.
(Edited)
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Breumaster

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In real life Sharon Tate was awfully slaughtered by the Manson "family", which got caught and arrested. That's all what happened in real life, except that Polanski got shattered with it, too.

The movie just gives people who fear crime or maybe have be victim of a crime a vision of how it rather should happened instead the reality, were they can project their own inner hatred into. That's ok by me. :D

But sorry, the storytelling (for a Tarantino movie ) was disappointing. Over the whole time I had the feeling that the story is not really connected to the "incident". The "incident" is just a fantasy of QT. I got the feeling that his movies are not the same since his former cutter died. The movies had somehow more magic.
(Edited)
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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"This movie had somehow more magic."

I felt that after watching his new film (Once Upon a Time in Hollywood).

I mean how the hell did the main characters get out alive from Tarantino's film.
(Edited)
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James The Movie Guy

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I have to disagree, I found it to be Tarantino's most refreshing movie since Pulp Fiction. Tarantino as of late likes to pay homage to older genres which he has been doing for most of his career, but this movie goes back to what made his first few films so engrossing, following characters rather than using traditional storytelling. I think what separates mediocre films and good films is whether you as an audience member take anything away from the moviegoing experience. Pulp Fiction you take away, that despite the ugliness of the world, there are still human beings trying to redeem themselves. Once Upon A Time In Hollywood you take away that despite the atrocities committed by deplorable people, life isn't meaningless despite nihilistic psychopaths telling you otherwise. Sure the ending is a fantasy, but that's what movies are all about, they are not real! It seems like this was one of Tarantino's most personal movies since he is always criticised for using violence in his films and asked whether there's any connection to real crime. The ending of Once Upon A Time In Hollywood felt like a direct assault on those idiotic critics and that's why people loved it including myself!
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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I'm not saying it's a bad movie (Tarantino is one those few filmmakers who never disappoints) ... I still got the Tarantino vibe.

I'm only surprised by the fact that nobody (any of the main characters) dies in the end.

But it was tense tho. The real tense began when Cliff visits that ranch.

I loved it. I love Tarantino because of his way of story-telling and violence in his films, his lust for blood. ◉‿◉
(Edited)
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Breumaster

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Ok, sorry for my lack of language knowledge and vocabulary. Sometimes I have problems to express my self exactly enough. It is not the main fail, that it doesn't show what these awful freaks have done to Tate and Polansky. Who would really like to see her slaughtered by these sick *ssh*oles? Me surely not. That would be pure blood lust voyeurism. That's not the point. I wanted to explain another thing, which is the main point I don't like.

Tarantino spends so much time on the two main guys and tells all in all two stories. He tells the story of these guys. The manson "family" is connected too less over the playtime to the end. So we have a story around the two guys that bored me at some point. And then - surprise - party time! This is the first time I was moderate disappointed about a Tarantino movie. It's like: Now put the story away and start our themepark.

I had the feeling earlier, that he decreases. The last movie that got me complete was 'Inglorious Basterds', from there on I feel he decreased. He never again reached the quality of e.g. 'Kill Bill'. And now please someone tell me about connection to reality  in that movie. It's just a fantasy, not more. The whole movie is a violence theme park. With popping blood fountains, lots of limbs and gore. But it was all connected in a story with a red line through it. In his Hollywood movie, I miss this red line sometimes. I'm still disappointed.
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James The Movie Guy

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Although that's exactly what I like about Once Upon A Time In Hollywood in that it's more like Pulp Fiction than Kill Bill. Kill Bill Vol 1. is good as stylised escapist entertainment especially that final action sequence and Uma Thurman is great, but Vol 2. was so heavy handed with the dialogue even for Tarantino standards, especially the comic book monologue from Bill which is so meaningless I don't even find it ironic. In Once Upon A Time In Hollywood I just really dug how Tarantino showed the day in the life of these two people in the movie, transporting you to another time and place rather than homaging another genre, like Kill Bill did for Martial Arts films, Django and Hateful Eight for Westerns, etc. I do like most of his filmography but it goes get tiring seeing him be retro homaging other genres.
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Breumaster

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I agree with cinephile, that 'Joker' was a way better film than 'One Upon a Time in Hollywood'. 'Joker' is a breathtaking fictional drama, which deal with the dilemma that might happen, when a government cuts medical help for people in need. I know that 'Joker' is very dramatised and not real. But it needed also to be connected to the Batman stories. For a fiction about a villain character of a super hero story, it felt nearly too realistic. I think it's a milestone in superhero (-villain) stories. I think the cut was perfect and the dirty, rotten, sad atmosphere of 'Joker' got me more that the atmosphere of 'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood'. And sorry - Joaquin Phoenix was so good in that role, that it hurt to see this guy suffer on screen. With false friends also around him (e.g. the gun dealer) A tragic character. A murder? yes! Prison? Absolutely! But the story also tells that this wouldn't have had to happen to this fictional character. Dramatic!
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James The Movie Guy

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Both movies are amazing, I may like Joker more actually.
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Breumaster

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Ok, on one of the movies we have different povs, so what? :D
Greetz. :D
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James The Movie Guy

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Yep your right, do you reckon this poll will get chosen? The underrated poll did extremely well but not sure if some of these picks are too controversial? 
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Breumaster

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I hope so, it's an extremely interesting subject, which I want to see how it turns out at the end. Controversial is ok, as long as the people behave and see just another  filmdude in each other. ;) If you ask me, if they put it online as a poll? I think so, because the users had a very interesting discussion and it's ovious that ruby already posted her words here down below:

(Quote:)
'Good poll and, although I think most of the films on the list are quite good, it's a good list of options for this particular poll.
(End of quote)

So for me it's obvious that it will become a poll, soon.
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rubyfruit76, Champion

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'Good poll and, although I think most of the films on the list are quite good, it's a good list of options for this particular poll.

'Pain and Glory' is listed twice, though, so please remove one. It couldn't go live with a duplicate listing. I usually abhor unsolicited advice so I try not to give it but here's just a small tip that might make things easier: I usually put my lists in alphabetical order for a few reasons, one of which is that it's almost impossible to have a duplicate listing if the movies are in alphabetical order. 

Here are a few suggested edits to the intro: (Edits in bold below)

2019 has ended. It left us with some great movies but since the cinema is subjective we probably found overrated movies, too. What do you think was the most overrated movie of 2019? (Overrathed as much by the public as by the critics.)

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joe siegel

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Thanks for catch this, Rub :D
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Breumaster

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I like some of his movies, they were interesting, but ...

I think 'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood' is truely overrated. I don't say it's crap. And I knew before that Tarantino always uses very graphic violence. Beside the overwhelming barefoot shots, it is a brand sign of Tarantino to use overwhelming graphic "shocking" violence.

There were several good scenes in the movie, which I liked, but for me it was somehow too longwinded. I would rather have seen the story he wrote, before it got stolen. :( The more Tarantino movies I watch, the more they seem equal. Build up a bad person and at the end destroy it as bad as you can. Violence theme park. ;D
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Jessica, Champion

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Joe, please make the edits ruby suggested.
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joe siegel

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Done :D
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Jessica, Champion

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Thanks. I noticed a typo: Overrated as much by the public as by the critics.
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joe siegel

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It's fixed, thanks for catch this, Jess.
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Oswald

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Terminator: Dark Fate was awful.

The only worse Terminator movie I have seen was Salvation.

FYC.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Interesting. I haven't seen Terminator: Dark Fate (2019) yet, but I prefer Terminator: Salvation (2019) and/or Terminator: Genisys (2015) any time over original cashgrab that is Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (2003)
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James The Movie Guy

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I agree, Terminator Salvation I can tolerate the most because at least that didn't tarnish the legacy of the first two movies. Terminator Genisys I found bad however I find it slightly less painful than the slapstick goofiness of Terminator 3...
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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James The Movie GuyTerminator 3: Rise of the Machines (2003) is so tonally all over the place that it hurts to see movie's rather bold scriptwriting choices at times just being buried under execution, which just appears as shallow. It might also be the very definition of overproduced: there's so much put into each scene with little to no relevance, that audience might actually forget the overall plot's progression.

There were quite a few movies from 2003-2004 with rather similar problems, but those based on pre-existing franchises hurt the most. Perhaps due to them being easier to compare and contrast with imeediate predecessors.   
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James The Movie Guy

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I agree there were plenty of bad movies from that era that tried to be cool with their low brow humour, especially kids films and sequels as you mentioned. There's a plethora of bad movies nowadays, however I would honestly rather watch Hellboy or Men in Black International, two of the most cash grab movies I saw last year, than Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines... 
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Oswald

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I actually thought Rise of the Machines was the third best Terminator movie to date, with Judgement Day (obviously) as #1 and Genesys as #2.

Perhaps it has something to do with my age... people tend to be most fond of stuff they watched in their late teens or early 20s.

I maintain that Salvation was AWFUL. It was a mish mash of bullsh** with no coherent storyline.

And Christian Bale and Sam Worthington are two of the most overrated actors ever.

Bale relies on his supporting cast (eg. Jackman, Johannsen, Caine) in "The Prestige" and (Neesen, Murphy, Caine, Freeman, Oldman, Ledger, Eckhart, Hardy, Hathaway, Gordon-Levitt, etc.) in The Dark Knight Trilogy. The guy has like literally 3 facial expressions.

What is Worthington most famous for? AVATAR? Give me a break. What unoriginal cr**. The Navi were basically Native Americans but blue instead of red, and the humans were white folks. The only saving grace of that film was its admittedly superb action sequences and CGI. And don't even get me started on Cameron's other multi-Oscar winning pseudo-masterpiece. Yeah , there was enough space on the piece of wood for both of them.

If Bale is the most overrated actor ever, Cameron is the most overrated director.

</end rant>

Edit: PS Nikolay... I have always appreciated, in all my various incarnations, the fact that you "Like" contributions even when you do not necessarily agree with them :)
(Edited)
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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I think Genysis is the best Terminator movie to date.
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Oswald

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Marry me.
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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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LOL!  
The first one is fun because it's the original, y'know, from the 80s.  Everybody was young and there's 80s music and nice cars.  :D  
But as far as a good story and enjoyable action scenes, I prefer Genisys.  Haven't seen Dark Fate, but something tells me I wouldn't like it, lol!

BTW, nice to hear someone else isn't a huge fan of Avatar. :)
(Edited)
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joe siegel

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"If Bale is the most overrated actor ever, Cameron is the most overrated director."

I think Bale is a great actor, Cameron if I think he is one of the most overrated filmmakers by both the public and the critics.
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James The Movie Guy

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Christian Bale is phenomenal in American Psycho and The Machinist! I even like him as Batman/Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins. By The Dark Knight Rises though I felt he was worse in the role with his mumbling throat cancer voice Batman and also it didn't help he was working with a boring script...
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Jessica, Champion

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MST3K (and Narnia) is Awesome

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Congrats!
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joe siegel

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Thanks :D
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Oh Man

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I've got to choose between Us and Joker.

Everyone thinks Us opens up after its intro and evolves everything set up into some magical mush of greatness, but I think the opening promises something great and quite a few of the "twists" are like taken straight out of a cheap 1970 horror movie.

Joker has some nice performance, but the film is literally being carried by Phoenix. The way he portrays things is great, but not the plot itself. It comes along as a very dry documentary with a logical sequence of things happening and then, in the end, the movie is like: this is how a villain could be born these days... and I'm like: no shit. It's said to be complex and so much more than your average superhero film, but I can't say it's any less by the numbers than e.g. the last Thor movie.

I would never label either of these movies "bad", but both cap at maybe 7/10 for me. I'll still vote for Joker, as Us gave me an interesting world to dive into and was overall, in some ways, very creative. Joker on the other hand is just trivia thrown at you with some acting power and budget to back it up.
The few pieces in this movie one might consider creative and thought enforcing (SPOILER___________ you know, the hallucinations n' stuff__________) are, in my honest opinion, even worse than the trivia itself. You could make an argument that these scenes and resulting interpretations gonna help you understand Arthur even better, but I really think they are just there because hey, everything being a dream is so cool and I've never seen it in any other movie before. It reuses too many elements and implements too many things I'm not even entirely sure why they're there. Hell, I think the entire thing would probably be better if it was not about the Joker but really some random guy. It'd likely make less money because of course it would, but then the outstandingly pointless scenes about Bruce wouldn't be there, and you could actually tell a story which surprises you at some point, instead of a movie where you know many things in advance anyway.
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joe siegel

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Yes, what bothered me most about Joker, was that this is not the Joker we know, it can't even be Joker, I know that Todd Phillips said he was trying to do something unique but he made a Joker who can't face Batman or even more remote reality, Arthur is built as a character with mental problems and even there, does Arthur have the skills to face Batman? Arthur is a weak character that only has flaws, I do not see him putting Batman in a dead-end situation like the Joker of Heath Ledger, or conquering the soul of Gothic, this configuration of the character does not have much future how villain as I see it.
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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joe siegel, allow me to disagree slightly on this one. Arthur is very much skilled, to a point that he seems to be nearly unaware that he is. Not only years upon years of abuse shaped him into someone who can shrug off being hit by a car (ironic coming from me: did exactly that once, can at least confirm it's not that easy of a task) and most forms of physical damage, when he's not on his meds, he's alarmingly smart in addition of being psychotic and... talented

It is a clear point in the movie: he holds on to remnants of his mental health, despite meds not only restricting his illness, but also his personality. He's let loose through the course of the movie and also stops holding on to his mental health. Immediately his mind reshapes to its primal damaged form and allows him to sneak into guarded building with ease, improvise weapons on spot, manipulate a situation in the crowd making a clear getaway from police for oneself etc. He pretty much allows to arrest himself to prove a point: he surrenders the gun which makes his murders easily connected a proven to simply and elegantly say to the crowds that he's the real deal. All that while the subway scene easily demonstrates that he treats crowd of followers as disposable at worst and audience at best which is... A very Joker moment. 

It, of course, depends on this universe's version of Batman, but I have a feeling this version of Joker is still a very real threat, especially if it's also going to evolve in the few years. Despite being thirty-something closing in on forties, Arthur is a very quick leaner, as well.  
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Dan Dassow, Champion

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Congratulations joesiegel on your 30th live poll! As of 7-Apr-2020 7:38 AM Pacific your polls have 25,726 or more votes, for an average of 858 votes per poll.

Most Overrated Movie of 2019
8601st Live Poll: https://www.imdb.com/poll/1WOa8Imh8PI/
Seen: http://www.imdb.com/seen/ls091486020/

This is the 3,963rd Title poll. Such polls have a total of 9,255,634 votes for an average of 2,336 votes per poll.
Total Number of Votes			18,803,291
Projected Date of 20 Million Votes	20-Jan-2021
Days Until 20 Million Votes		278
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