Please remove the (uncredited) on my first starring role in 1953. I have submitted this correction countless times.

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I wish you to remove the (uncredited) on my first starring role in 1953. I have submitted this correction countless times.
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CFT

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Posted 4 years ago

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CFT

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Here is a screen grab from the One Sheet" and the submission number to title/tt0049067 as your e-mail instructs me to.  Submission 150625-162349-317200 "
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CFT

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This was my first STARRING role as a child actor.  I was very much credited! I had major scenes in this movie with Mandy Miller and, at least on the English version, was credited on the poster as
"Introducing Christopher Toyne" as was required with on my contract to J. Arthur Rank Film Studios (One of the last Child Actors to be on contract to a UK film studio.)  This was the J. Arthur Rank Studio approved publicity in Spotlight.
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Do you, by any chance, have a copy of the film from which you can provide a screen capture of your name appearing in the on screen credits (that's the definition of "credited")?

It would go a lot further to prove the credit exists than providing other documentation.
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CFT

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This is a 1956 movie sitting in the British National Film Archive!! However Fandor have the exclusive right to stream it. You will see that Fandor have lifted my credit from the film. https://www.fandor.com/films/child_in...
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CFT

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I am wrong, there was a limited DVD release. Looking for it without success. However Amazon.co.uk fully credits me in the movie
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revie...
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CFT

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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Wikipedia is not a reliable source as anyone can pretty much edit it. It also doesn't have rules like IMDb in that the most important thing here is the name appearing in the on screen credits. It's primarily the function and goal of IMDb to document the on screen credits.

It was also released on VHS but I can't find it anywhere.

I signed up for Fandora's free trial:



This is the cast in the most comprehensive on screen list. Your name is not "credited."

At the front end:



Sorry to say, it looks like your credit needs to display the "uncredited" attribute.

I would assume staff had access to the cast/crew list and probably found, when you submitted countless times, that your name did not appear and this is why your request was rejected.
(Edited)
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Alfred Jarry

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Well, I did a Google search on "Child in the House"+"watch online", to get a list of those shady/illegal sites that show movies they have no right showing.  I clicked on the first non-ad link and was taken to http://www.moviesocean.net/classic-movies-drama/child-in-the-house-1956-watch-online 
  You're listed there!!
  Here's what I saw:

Child in the House (1956)

Director : Not found
Release Date : 1956
Genre : Drama
Cast : Phyllis Calvert as Evelyn Acheson, Eric Portman as Henry Acheson, Stanley Baker as Stephen Lorimer, Mandy Miller as Elizabeth Lorimer, Dora Bryan as Cassie, Joan Hickson as Cook, Victor Maddern as Bert, Percy Herbert as Det. Sgt. Taylor, Joan Benham as Vera McNally, Martin Miller as Prof. Topolski, Christopher Toyne as Peter McNally, Alfie Bass as Ticket collector, Molly Urquhart as Mrs. Parsons, Bruce Beeby as Const. Jennings, Peter Burton as Howard Forbes Maggie Smith as Party guest
Plot : Plot/Story Not found.
Run Time : 90 min
Country : UK
Company : Laureate


  You're also listed here, in a hit I got on a more general search:  http://www.nytimes.com/movies/movie/87132/Child-in-the-House/cast

  Look!!!!  Even TVGuide acknowledges you!!!  http://www.tvguide.com/movies/child-in-the-house/cast/110779/ 

  I don't know what IMDb needs in the way of proof, but if I found all this in a couple of minutes, I'm sure you can find many more (pretty legit) sources that back you up!

  Good luck!

 

 
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Did the unlisted data appear in the credits? If not, did it include the "uncredited" attribute?

If neither, it should be corrected. The site assumes we're all adding correct info. We should not add something then expect them to go research it. They won't go contacting third parties. If you submit items that turn out to need corrections or removal, you'll be less likely to have future submission accepted without evidence proving it.

That said, Mr. Toyne is indeed correctly listed (no one has said he isn't listed). No one should be sending submissions to change the listing at this point.
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Alfred Jarry

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  Yes, indeedy, it DID!!  It was definitely credited!!
 
  And my understanding, going by the communique that IMDb sent me, was that they WERE going to follow up.

  I didn't know that ahead of time.  I didn't ask them to.  I was mildly surprised that I heard from them at all.
  I certainly didn't expect them to take what I told them 'on faith'!  (Surely this place isn't akin to 'wiki'!!!  I've always trusted the information I find at IMDb!)
  All I did was present the facts at hand and that I knew how the validity could be ascertained.
  I think because of who it involved, they were quite motivated to have that information.

  I suppose it's possible that at some future point I might have something else to offer to IMDb -- but I can't imagine what!!!  (Except for a technical problem I'm having in trying to look something up.)

  I would appreciate you cutting me a little slack!!!
  It's fine to educate me as to how things work and what's acceptable and what's not.
  I appreciate it!!  I want to play by the rules and keep IMDb as great as I've always considered it to be!!
  I have no desire to be a jerk, but I feel like that's how you are treating me.
  It would be more helpful in getting to be the type of poster you would welcome if you would act on the fact that my intentions are pure rather than imply that I am not paying attention to what you have posted and what you tell me.  I DO read everything you post, yet you seem to think that you need to repeat it.
  I hear ya, guy!!
 
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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People read these threads for years after posted. As long as you keep repeating that the OP should keep submitting false information, I'll keep repeating he should not. Otherwise he and others reading might be mislead and think that it's good advice.

Further, you held up your previous experience as an example of the OP's situation. So of course I and anyone else reading would assume you, in that case, were successful adding something that otherwise did not belong.

Anyway, this is resolved. The request was to remove "uncredited" from an uncredited listing and the answer is, it should not be removed and the request should not be re-submitted.

You brought up several places that don't distinguish between credited and uncredited...perhaps you efforts should be places like that. Otherwise submissions should be helpful to users by being uniform and kept within the guides and Terms and Conditions of the site. Otherwise others need to be bothered with correcting listings continually (for example, I've corrected dozens of items this week alone...and there are literally many thousands of users who do a lot more contributing than I do).

I don't think you're a jerk but it's quite annoying that twice after I put considerable effort into researching the issue and taking my own spare time to also explain the rules, you replied after me saying all that should be ignored and that the OP should keep submitting the request that keeps getting rejected because it's not accurate data. All while implying you did the same thing with another title (which title is it, by the way?...it'd be interesting to see if the data there is accurate or not). I could have used unreliable sources too but because the site only values the actual credits as 100% reliable, that's what I looked for...be it Dvd, Vhs, renting it from the library...where ever I could locate accurate data.
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Alfred Jarry

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  It's true that I did that I did think and suggest that it might be worth exploring further, in case there were contradicting copies out there -- but please do not equate that with saying 'all that should be ignored'.  I never said or thought that anyone should just discount what you said.  I merely believed that I might also have useful information to offer.

  And I did not say that the OP should continue to submit that request, either.  I suggested that he look elsewhere to see if he could find anything to support what he believed to be the case and IF he did, then he could take it further..

  I don't know how you think that I could manage to slip one past the IMDb data managers.  IMDb told me that it would be submitted to them for verification.
  I'm not at liberty to disclose the film in question, as to my contribution to IMDb.  I feel quite confident that no misrepresentation was made and I sincerely hope that to be the case.  (And I have a fair amount of faith that IMDb handled it professionally and correctly.)

  It's a bit annoying to have someone take one to task for contributing what one fully believes and hopes to be a useful contribution, as well.
  I know we're not necessarily here to make friends.  But remaining civil and courteous might better achieve what you seem to wish for this site.
  I ask you again to please take a somewhat gentler stance with me!!
  I'm more than willing to become less of a thorn in your side.
  I can see where it would be mildly annoying when it seems that someone is possibly 'undoing' the effort you have just put in, but as that was not my intent, I don't think it rises to the level of 'quite annoying'; I find that to be a bit of an overreaction, considering that I was attempting to be helpful.
  But if you don't find that the least bit mitigating, then there's certainly nothing more I can say that will have any sway with you.
  Do please rest assured, though, that I will always do my best to be a positive presence here.
 
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Since it was me feeling annoyed, I should think it's up to me to classify the extent to which I was annoyed, just as you can do so thinking I should be gentler. But there we are.

Funny, one day I replied to 3 people who posted requests for lists of recommendations on the film trivia board by saying they should post on the "Lists and Recommendations Board," and that they'd receive more participation where they are not posting off topic. People yelled at me for my "tone." So, the next day I started, for several days, posting the exact same text but adding smiley-face emoticons. All replies were, "thanks...I didn't know that board was there! I'll post there!"

But sorry...I'm not usually the emoticon type of guy so you're just left with the text of the actual message...take the tone as you like.

  I'm not at liberty to disclose the film in question, as to my contribution to IMDb
Odd, being it's supposedly public information posted on a website with access to anyone in the world. I would think that someone who has found an error on a page might actually want to be assured there are not more or that the correction was done properly (especially since you seem to think you've handed it over to IMDb to decide the outcome of your submission)...

I don't know how you think that I could manage to slip one past the IMDb data managers
To an extent, staff takes our word on a lot, to begin with. If our submissions get reversed or corrected, our account is tracked and maintains that information. Future submissions can be scrutinized more carefully in the future and might even be rejected outright without solid proof included with the submission (screen captures of the on screen credits or links to the credit roll, etc.).

see: Contributors' Charter

IMDb tracks each contributor's accuracy over time and if any contributor repeatedly submits data which is inaccurate or which violates our policies, their contributions will require increasing levels of additional proof in order to be processed.
That would not be needed if staff had access to all the credits of every film at their hands...in fact they wouldn't need us to submit anything at all, in that case. So keep in mind, they expect it to have been researched prior to it being submitted for inclusion in the database and that we should also get to know the guidelines for inclusion, such as in this case, where the credit can be listed but it requires having the "uncredited" attribute.

Thanks for helping ;)
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As long as we are talking about Child in the House, I wonder if anyone here can shed any light on this. IMDb lists Cy Endfield as the director under the name C. Raker Endfield, and also as the co-director under the name Charles De Lautour.

Although "Charles De Lautour" is listed in the credits (as shown above) as co-director, I wonder why Endfield would take a co-direction credit under a different name when he was already credited as the main director. Is it possible that the co-director was actually Charles De la Tour who was sometimes credited as Charles de Lautour?

I see in Endfield's IMDb biography that he was blacklisted in the 1950s:
To avoid problems with distribution in the US, for the first few years he worked under pseudonyms (such as "Hugh Raker") and on two occasions allowed a friend of his, director Charles de la Tour, to act as a 'front'.
But it's not clear to me that having a "front" credited as co-director would help when Endfield was using a version of his real name (he was born Cyril Raker Endfield) for his main director credit.

I wonder if Christopher can tell us whether Charles De la Tour did in fact serve as co-director of this film.
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CFT

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I've come back Mr. "Gee Whiz." Earlier I thanked you, BluesmanSF,  for, "Going beyond the call of duty" in pulling up and screen capturing the original credits on whatever version of "Child in the House" Fandor is streaming.  I will have my own DVD version by the week's end.  Initially I had not assumed you were on IMDb staff, therefore the "you" was not intended for you.  But over the years I have found a few responses from IMDb staff condescending, arrogant and "self-appointed." Now reading above I must assume that you are on staff, so take what I say, please, as objective criticism.  I mean no rancor.  

For I have had a long career in film, an enjoyable one, I have sat at the feet of Dolores del Rio, bringing her her lunch; I have gazed at Sophia Loren eating her lunch in my little English unit office, while at war with Sheik Omar El-Sharif; I brought Lauren 'Betty' Bacall to the small screen for the first time, having got on with her on "Applause" (many didn't, wicked lady!) I have had a script thrown at my head by Kirk Douglas, in fairness it was intended for son Michael; stand up fights with Linda Hamilton and Susan George: worked with the BeKnighted Gentlemen of England, and many other fun set memories. In fairness to your colleagues, IMDb editors have never denied me a self-entered credit.  Some are justifiably (uncredited). 

 Your description of IMDb above may be true and accurate for the hard-core love of film and the use of IMDb.  "fans of films etc."  And I didn't need another lecture on "Uncredited!" I got it. But thank you for the actual IMDb wording reference.  It was 1956. It is, however, the only one I care about (Perhaps I will find a screen-grab to the contrary, hee-hee!)

"we're just a bunch of hardcore movie fans who still can't get over the fact that we're getting paid to keep improving this tool"

However, you do not describe to all of your followers here on this get satisfaction string how you get paid: IMDbPRO. I PAY $149.99 a year and my publicist (well, I) pays $3-400 a year putting up posters and stills. We use it professionally, in casting sessions, and for quick verification of cast and crew. YES, we appreciate its fullest authenticity and that it is fully vetted. Good job, BluesmanSF.  That, of course, is highly valuable.  The alternative professional reference website is so expensive to use that only the big studios and mini-majors subscribe.

So we on the IMDbPRO side are paying your IMDb staff wages.  Now the second thing you do not say is your corporate relationship between IMDb, Amazon.com and WithoutABox. Any little 3 minute short paying those exorbitant fees to enter festivals through WithoutABox is eligible to get all of their credits - cast and crew - up on IMDb. Credits galore. No (uncredited) there!  Then Amazon.com can sell-through DVDs.

Now, you made one comment above which I find particularly condescending, "Keep in mind, too, that they've made an exception to include you in the cast list even though your name does not appear."  There was no "exception."  I was credited in all of the Studio "One-sheets" etc, as so many of those kind followers above pointed out from various URLs - URLs that IMDb always require when verifying titles etc. So, I got it, not on the actual screen. (uncredited.)  Just like Dame Maggie Smith!

"..........we use so much for our own pleasure."

Well, it is not only for your own pleasure.  It is also the service of IMDbPRO, which I pay a lot of money for (as outlined above.)  Therefore I look at it through a different lens, not quite so rose tinted.

Hey! Ho! Good stuff.  
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Uncredited means the on screen credits...not one sheets. You say you get it now, clearly you still do not.

I am not staff and don't get paid.

Pro fees could not possibly pay for the extra work maintaining Pro features plus all other costs. Advertising most likely keeps the lights on. Pro fees pay for Pro activities.

IMDb documents on screen credits. They consider, case by case, whether to make an exception and grant uncredited listings, per the help area. If telling you this makes you feel you've been condescended to, that's kind of your issue to work through.

If your DVD has enhanced credits, it won't change the fact that in the original, you were not credited. Again, IMDb documents on screen credits as they appeared in the original film.

IMDbPro does not offer any features regarding submission of data and does not allow listing outside the rules. If you're paying based on that, you should probably stop. It allows you to add photos and a resume page only (regarding display of the Name Page in your name).

Saying, "I pay you guys so you should post false information on my page," isn't likely to work but give it a shot if you like.

Films entered via WAB go by the same rules. Credited on screen gets listed. If not on screen, it must have the uncredited attribute.

Staff will have to answer to the connections between Amazon, IMDb and WAB. Other than IMDb partnered with Amazon to have access to their servers (as a free site they could not afford their own new servers and had outgrown what they had), I don't know.

Best of luck to you!
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CFT

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Oh! Com'mon, BluesmanSP, I GET IT! You laid out the rules above. I get it. I've moved on. As to you not being on staff, that's what I thought in the first place.  But then you wrote a whole "We" do this, "we" do that and "we" do the other, and described the editorial meetings etc etc, I thought that you WERE on staff.

Look, BluesmanSP, I value the time you have taken explaining all of the above.  I recognize (recognise) the difference between the screen grabs you got from Fandora's stream versus whatever the DVD I receive upcoming.  I will evaluate accordingly.

The reference to "one sheets" etc was to be included as (uncredited) as opposed to NOT being included at all. So YOU are not reading accurately - not getting it. But I appreciate that you are probably reading/responding to a whole lot of this stuff.

I know that IMBbPro does not change the rules.  I can find no-where where I wrote [Saying, "I pay you guys so you should post false information on my page,"]  Everything I wrote said how I, as a producer, ["appreciate its fullest authenticity and that it is fully vetted. Good job, BluesmanSF." ] 

It surprises me that your criticism is so selective, so do not lecture me.  I know EXACTLY what IMBbPro offers. I pay for IMDbPro because I get good value.  It is a BUSINESS decision - if you look at my listing you will see I am actively in production on 3 features and a big TV series. As I said, I use it in casting calls, in crewing interviews and for general reference.  The day it is no longer value for money, I will stop. As said, small Indie features usually cannot afford subscriptions to The Creative Directory.

Including individual episodes, BluesmanSP, I have approximately 187 IMDb credits. My STARmeter hovers in the 92,000 (a couple of times even getting into the 20,000s!)  

Anyway IMDb friend.  Let's feel the love. And best of luck to you. After all, this IS called the "get satisfaction.com" page!  
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought it was clear that I gave a link to the Help area page, then quoted from it using this site's quote markup. I did not mean to imply that was me saying "we," "we're" etc., but that it's the site's staff saying that.

The text outside of the quotes is what came from me. Also, staff here have nametags indicating they are "employees" or "official reps" of the site. Mine does not display any such thing.

Regarding documents being for getting an "uncredited" listing added, that makes no sense. They appear in this thread which is titled, "Please remove the (uncredited)..." You also posted one of the photos with the text, "I was very much credited." You're right. I am not following you on that one...Not sure you're remembering correctly...it's all still there above. You can re-read it all.

You're the one who brought up Pro in a discussion about the site not doing as you'd like. They don't make exceptions to the rule (which makes it difficult for users to use, or even believe, the data they find here) because you pay to have your picture on the page.

Congrats on your 187 credits. Nice work!

Best to you as well!
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Just a quick note:

If you somehow get the deletion of "uncredited" accepted, there would be a good likelihood that someone would see the film and credits and notice that though the page lists you as credited, the name does not appear on screen. They'd be able to submit a screen capture proving there is no such credit and the credit would be removed completely. Just another reason to leave it accurately listed.

Hope that helps.

edit to add:

Oh, and I just watched a film you produced and found, out of a cast of about 25, 19 errors and one or two omission, and half a dozen Producer credit errors (omissions, wrong job title, etc.) and finally got tired and might go back as there are probably a couple hundred more credits to review (damn those 'pay for credit' deals!).

Your time might be better spent with the credit errors and omissions (at a 75% rate) on your other more current films rather than removing a completely valid entry from a 60 years ago...just a thought (I am sure your cast/crew would appreciate it, as would this site's staff, users and data contributors)...
(Edited)

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