Photos Winston Churchill (IV)

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  • Updated 7 months ago
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Please remove all photos. It's the wrong person.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1536676/?ref_=fn_nm_nm_2

The photos would belong to Winston Churchill (I):
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0161476/?ref_=fn_nm_nm_1

I think they are useless, so they don't have to be moved.


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Mecki

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Posted 7 months ago

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Wrong.
Those are related to him and do indeed belong.
He was in every one of those Documentaries as the son of Churchill.
Yes they are all photos of his father. But they are all Posters of a documentary series that the son was part of.

(Edited)
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gromit82, Champion

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Ed: Winston Churchill (IV) was the grandson (not the son) of the prime minister, Winston Churchill (I). 

Although the grandson is listed as appearing in the documentary "Churchill" (2003) with which all these photos are associated, they aren't photos of the grandson, so I think it would be more appropriate for them all to be reassigned to Winston Churchill (I), not Winston Churchill (IV).

After all, Lady Mary Soames, the prime minister's daughter, appeared in that same documentary. But the photos aren't linked to her page ... because her name wasn't "Winston Churchill" and thus nobody confused her with Winston Churchill (I).

I believe that the IMDb policy is that video for a title can be linked to a person's name page, if the person appears in the underlying title, even if the person does not appear in the video itself. But I think for photos, the person is actually supposed to be seen in the photograph to have it linked to their name page. 
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I looked. Technically they should come out.
But It just feels wrong.
There ought to be an exception for real persons or historical figures.
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gromit82, Champion

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My guess is that this situation arose from the following facts (if I understand correctly -- I haven't actually seen this series):
  • Winston Churchill (IV) appeared in new footage in the "Churchill" (2003) documentary series. Consequently, he is listed in the cast of the documentary as displayed at series level (see https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0398438/).
  • Winston Churchill (I). who was the focus of that documentary, appeared in archive footage throughout the documentary, but not new footage because he had died in 1965. Consequently, he is listed in the cast of the individual episode of the documentary with (archive footage) attributes, but not the cast of the series overall.
Note that none of the photos in the grandson's photo gallery (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1536676/mediaindex) appear in the prime minister's photo gallery (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0161476/mediaindex) ... even though they are photos of the prime minister ... because they are all linked to the 2003 documentary series.

What policy or consequences or linking of photos to the grandson's pages should occur as a result of this ... I don't know. I will let the staff, and contributors who are more involved in photo issues than I am, take the lead on that issue. But I suspect that this is what caused the issue raised by Mecki in this thread.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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There are much worse image problems than this.
I just think it is a borderline call according to the rules. But the fact that it is a historical figure.................
I would personally never raised the issue out of respect.
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Mecki

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I did not submit these photos. I only discovered them when I wanted to submit a cast addition to Churchill (I). At first I thought I had found the right person because of the photos, when I realised the birth date doesn't match.
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Mecki

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"... I would personally never raised the issue out of respect..."

Neither would I, but I thought, box-covers should only be added to film titles, not to persons. Sorry, I was wrong.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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No, you are indeed correct. I just feels wrong to mess with something that borderline.
There are bigger fish to fry in the database.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Mecki, strictly saying nothing stops the cover from being in an actor's photo gallery. For many deceased persons it is actually one of the fewer ways to have photographs on IMDb. A recent case I've encountered is notorious punk rocker GG Allin and VHS cover of Hated: GG Allin & the Murder Junkies (1993) that ended up being his primary image actually fits well and encompasses his personality to a "t".
(Edited)
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Mecki

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I absolutely agree. Covers can be useful if they show the right person. In the case of Churchill the covers show another person and I think this is rather confusing than helpful.
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Mecki

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"... Do you have the 18 Digit contributions numbers for the deletions of these images? ..."

I have not yet submitted the removal of any image, so there are no contribution numbers so far. I just started this conversation and suggested the deletion.
(Edited)
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Mecki

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Right now I'm not sure if we all agree to delete the photos. If so I will be happy to submit the deletion.
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MAthePA

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Hi, Mecki.

Any data displayed on photos in the form of tags must be factual. If you see a wrong face on a photo, such tag should be reported for deletion and the correct person can be then properly tagged on that photo.

If a photo is a part of a poster, then note please that any poster may include also printed names, so they are also factual and allowed to be tagged while there is no visual but only textual data concerning that person.

For example, on the questioned page we see two posters:
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1536676/mediaviewer/rm1712365056
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1536676/mediaviewer/rm3336215552
those include the visual data concerning Winston Churchill (I) and textual data concerning Orson Welles, so both of them may be tagged on the two posters, but not Winston Churchill (IV).

I hope this helps
(Edited)
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Mecki

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As I understand, in your examples not only the person is tagged wrong but also the title, because the tag links to another film. The film in the picture should be this documentary (considering title and producer):
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058099/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_6

Asides the taggings, I assume both images should be removed because neither do they show the right person nor a printed name relates to the right person.
(Edited)
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MAthePA

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Yes, the title is also wrong.
Sorry, but there are more important multiple problem on the (IV) page, that I'm solving for the last hours after replied your post here. The whole "archive footage" is submitted title by title to move for senior (I). So if you have time, please, proceed with images while I'm checking the credits for both Winstons. Thank you.

PS: those images can be tagged to correct title(s) and the wrong tagged titles can be deleted the same way as for names.

PPS: I finished the credits. All those in "archive footage" section belong to Winston Churchill (I) and none of them to his grandson; and all the rest are correct "self" credits of Winston Churchill (IV). The "archive footage" section is going to disappear after the changes approved and been live.
(Edited)
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Mecki

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I have now corrected the tags of one image. I will wait and see whether the result will be the desired or not. After all this is my first tag correction.
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MAthePA

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Congratulations ;)
Please note that old tags removal takes always much more time than new tags approval.

PS: Oh sorry, I've forgot to share the link for you:
https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/images-videos/images-guidelines/G27LPBQZA7EAZGJW#names
(Edited)
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Mecki

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The tags of the first image were now corrected. I submitted 4 tag changes at once and my explanation perhaps was not unambiguously, so one of them was declined. I submitted it again and then it was approved.
I will now take care of the other nine images.
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Mecki

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All submissions regarding the nine images have now been accepted.
WC (IV) has no photos anymore:
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1536676/?ref_=fn_nm_nm_2

All photos are now at WC (I):
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0161476/mediaindex?ref_=nm_phs_md_sm

Problem solved :-)
(Edited)
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MAthePA

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Mecki, thank you for great effort.
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Mecki

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My pleasure! But without support I would probably never have achieved it. Great teamwork in this community!