Part of last name - ter

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In the Netherlands, the word "ter" can be part of people's last name. However, when adding this to or correcting this for a person, the red warning appears that says "One of the main parts of [...] starts with a lowercase letter and is therefore invalid." Can a staffer remove this red warning please?
Example:


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Marco

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Posted 1 year ago

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Steve Crook, Champion

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Does it really matter? Her name will still be displayed as "Wil ter Horst"

Rather than trying to get the IMDb to change their structure and allow that for of name beginning with a lower case letter, why not just ask them to change that one name?

They've done that in the past for other people in the rare cases when someone's name begins with a lower case letter

    Steve
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Marco

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Does it really matter?
Well, apart from the fact that it is currently stored factually incorrect, it can also cause trouble when people share a name. I once encountered "van Gogh, Theo" and "Gogh, Theo van". The system didn't see a problem in this, but for a casual user it's impossible to understand why they don't have the (I) and (II) after their name. More than once, this has been asked on the Contributors Board.
Rather than trying to get the IMDb to change their structure
I don't ask IMDb to change their structure. I only ask to add one more part of a last name to the already existing list of part-of-last-names that don't get a red flag.
why not just ask them to change that one name?
Because it is not just one name. I added the printscreen to show that there are more people with such a name and to show that there are currently 3 (!) ways these names get listed: "ter Horst, Wil", "Horst, Wil ter" and "Ter Horst, Wil". It would be much simplier and factually correct to have them listed in 1 way instead of 3.
(Edited)
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Adrian, Champion

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Hi Marco,

I doubt that IMDb will remove the warning. However, if you provide a link to the name that you are trying to change, an employee can make the change. I've had a similar problem when a first name is all uppercase, like "TJ". You generally have to enter it as "T.J." and then ask someone to change it.

Is this the person: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm9031532/

Also, I see you refer to Wil as a him but the only list for Wil has her credited as "Herself".
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Marco

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I doubt that IMDb will remove the warning.
I see no reason for IMDb not to remove the warning.
The reason why there's a warning for people like TJ is because quite some people try to add names in ALL CAPS. Annoying as it is when you have to enter it as T.J. and then ask for a fix, the warning does serve a purpose.
In the case I mentioned, the system simply didn't know about 'ter'. And, as you can see from the print screen I added, it leads to errors because some people submit it as 'Ter' instead of 'ter' because that's the only way to get it added to the database.
Also, I see you refer to Wil as a him but the only list for Wil has her credited as "Herself".
Good point, my bad, due to the fact that the name Wil can refer to both males or females in the Netherlands.
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Adrian, Champion

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There are good reasons to leave the warning. People can be lazy and type names in lowercase or just make a typo. I'd say at least 80% it's going to be a mistake (and yes there are cases such as "ter" and "van" and "de" that are correct but they are exceptions.)
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Marco -

I have now corrected the name format from "Horst, Wil ter" to "ter Horst, Wil", the change should be live on the site shortly.  Cheers!
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ljdoncel, Champion

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Hola
I once encountered "van Gogh, Theo" and "Gogh, Theo van". The system didn't see a problem in this, but for a casual user it's impossible to understand why they don't have the (I) and (II) after their name.
There are still many instances of this happening on IMDB, where a very same displayed name (e.g. "part1 part2 part3" ) has more than one stored names ("part2 part3, part1" & "part3, part1 part2" ).

The FTP files are outdated (especially actors.list [22 Sep 2017]) and contain just a part of the whole huge database (62,701,468 credits for 6,220,909 names, which represent, according to official stats, about 70% of total credits and names). Therefore, the following list is non-exhaustive, but it could be a good starting point for someone who'd want to check if the different stored names are structurally correct (surname, name ), and if they actually belong to different people who share a same name (in which case the incorrect stored names should be amended and proper Roman numerals added if applicable), or if in fact they belong to a same person (in which case the stored names should be amended and consolidated).

Each of the following 2,552 displayed names (DN) has two different stored names (SN):
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If we ignore capitalization to explore possible issues with name particles (de, el, los, ter, van, von...), the number grows up, being 5,020 "displayed names" with multiple stored names:
  • 4 stored names: 1 case
    ►"DN": carlos de los santos ~ SN: Santos, Carlos de los | de los Santos, Carlos | de Los Santos, Carlos | De Los Santos, Carlos
  • 3 stored names: 18 cases
    ►"DN": amer al kamel ~ SN: Kamel, Amer Al | al Kamel, Amer | Al Kamel, Amer
    ►"DN": ángel del castillo ~ SN: Castillo, Ángel del | del Castillo, Ángel | Del Castillo, Ángel
    ►"DN": david de la garza ~ SN: de la Garza, David | De la Garza, David | De La Garza, David
    ►"DN": enrique de la torre ~ SN: Torre, Enrique de la | de la Torre, Enrique | De La Torre, Enrique
    ►"DN": felipe da silva ~ SN: Silva, Felipe Da | da Silva, Felipe | Da Silva, Felipe
    ►"DN": felipe de la cruz ~ SN: de la Cruz, Felipe | de La Cruz, Felipe | De La Cruz, Felipe
    ►"DN": frederico nobre de carvalho ~ SN: Carvalho, Frederico Nobre de | de Carvalho, Frederico Nobre | Nobre De Carvalho, Frederico
    ►"DN": herve de gruzoir ~ SN: Gruzoir, Herve De | de Gruzoir, Herve | De Gruzoir, Herve
    ►"DN": jake the dog ~ SN: Dog, Jake the | Dog, Jake The | Jake The Dog
    ►"DN": jan de boer ~ SN: Boer, Jan de | de Boer, Jan | De Boer, Jan
    ►"DN": javier del campo (II) ~ SN: Campo, Javier del (II) | del Campo, Javier (II) | Del Campo, Javier (II)
    ►"DN": juan de la torre ~ SN: Torre, Juan de la | De la Torre, Juan | De La Torre, Juan
    ►"DN": liliana lo furno ~ SN: Furno, Liliana lo | Furno, Liliana Lo | Lo Furno, Liliana
    ►"DN": maría de las heras ~ SN: Heras, María de las | de Las Heras, María | De Las Heras, María
    ►"DN": marzia dal fabbro ~ SN: Fabbro, Marzia dal | Fabbro, Marzia Dal | Dal Fabbro, Marzia
    ►"DN": pieter de vos ~ SN: Vos, Pieter de | de Vos, Pieter | De Vos, Pieter
    ►"DN": rodrigo de vera ~ SN: Vera, Rodrigo de | de Vera, Rodrigo | De Vera, Rodrigo
    ►"DN": stephanie de la cruz ~ SN: de la Cruz, Stephanie | De la Cruz, Stephanie | De La Cruz, Stephanie
  • 2 stored names: 5,001 cases


Finally, if we ignore capitalization, punctuation and basic diacritics, the number obviously grows further, up to 41,924 "displayed names" which share 84,914 stored names:
  • 5 stored names: 3 cases
    ►"DN": carlosdelossantos ~ SN: Santos, Carlos Delos | Santos, Carlos de los | de los Santos, Carlos | de Los Santos, Carlos | De Los Santos, Carlos
    ►"DN": minhtamnguyen ~ SN: Nguyen, Minhtam | Nguyen, MinhTam | Nguyen, Minh-Tam | Nguyen, Minh Tâm | Nguyên, Minh Tâm
    ►"DN": rauldelacruz ~ SN: Delacruz, Raúl | Dela Cruz, Raul | de la Cruz, Raul | de la Cruz, Raúl | De La Cruz, Raul

  • 4 stored names: 47 cases
    ►"DN": camron ~ SN: Cam-Ron | Cam'ron | Camron | Ron, Cam'
    ►"DN": carlosdelatorre ~ SN: Delatorre, Carlos | DeLaTorre, Carlos | Dela Torre, Carlos | de la Torre, Carlos
    ►"DN": cesardelatorre ~ SN: Torre, César de la | Delatorre, Cesar | de la Torre, Cesar | de la Torre, César
    ►"DN": donghyunkim (II) ~ SN: Kim, Dong Hyun (II) | Kim, Dong-hyun (II) | Kim, Dong-Hyun (II) | Kim, Donghyun (II)
    ►"DN": hervedegruzoir ~ SN: Gruzoir, Herve De | de Gruzoir, Herve | De Gruzoir, Herve | De Gruzoir, Hervé
    ►"DN": hyunyoungpark ~ SN: Park, Hyun Young | Park, Hyun-young | Park, Hyun-Young | Park, Hyunyoung
    ►"DN": ines (II) ~ SN: Ines (II) | Inés (II) | Inès (II) | Inês (II)
    ►"DN": jesusgarcia (I) ~ SN: Garcia, Jesus (I) | García, Jesus (I) | Garcia, Jesús (I) | García, Jesús (I)
    ►"DN": jihoonkim (I) ~ SN: Kim, Ji Hoon (I) | Kim, Ji-hoon (I) | Kim, Ji-Hoon (I) | Kim, Jihoon (I)
    ►"DN": jihoonkim (II) ~ SN: Kim, Ji Hoon (II) | Kim, Ji-hoon (II) | Kim, Ji-Hoon (II) | Kim, Jihoon (II)
    ►"DN": jihyunahn ~ SN: Ahn, Ji Hyun | Ahn, Ji-hyun | Ahn, Ji-Hyun | Ahn, Jihyun
    ►"DN": jihyunkim (II) ~ SN: Kim, Ji Hyun (II) | Kim, Ji-hyun (II) | Kim, Ji-Hyun (II) | Kim, Jihyun (II)
    ►"DN": jiminkim (I) ~ SN: Kim, Ji Min (I) | Kim, Ji-min (I) | Kim, Ji-Min (I) | Kim, Jimin (I)
    ►"DN": jinsoopark ~ SN: Park, Jin Soo | Park, Jin-soo | Park, Jin-Soo | Park, Jinsoo
    ►"DN": jinyoungchoi ~ SN: Choi, Jin Young | Choi, Jin-young | Choi, Jin-Young | Choi, JinYoung
    ►"DN": johndsilva ~ SN: Silva, John D. | Dsilva, John | D'Silva, John | D' Silva, John
    ►"DN": jojo (I) ~ SN: Jo-Jo (I) | Jojo (I) | JoJo (I) | Jo, Jo (I)
    ►"DN": joseantonio (IV) ~ SN: Antonio, Jose (IV) | Antonio, José (IV) | António, José (IV) | Antônio, José (IV)
    ►"DN": josegonzalez (I) ~ SN: Gonzalez, Jose (I) | González, Jose (I) | Gonzalez, José (I) | González, José (I)
    ►"DN": joseluisgarcia (II) ~ SN: Garcia, Jose Luis (II) | García, Jose Luis (II) | Garcia, José Luis (II) | García, José Luis (II)
    ►"DN": josepgarcia ~ SN: Garcia, Jose P. | García, José P. | Garcia, Josep | García, Josep
    ►"DN": joseramirez (I) ~ SN: Ramirez, Jose (I) | Ramírez, Jose (I) | Ramirez, José (I) | Ramírez, José (I)
    ►"DN": josesanchez (I) ~ SN: Sanchez, Jose (I) | Sánchez, Jose (I) | Sánchez, José (I) | Sanchez, Josè (I)
    ►"DN": juandelacruz ~ SN: Cruz, Juan de la | Delacruz, Juan | DeLa Cruz, Juan | De la cruz, Juan
    ►"DN": juandelatorre ~ SN: Torre, Juan de la | Delatorre, Juan | De la Torre, Juan | De La Torre, Juan
    ►"DN": juliagarcia (II) ~ SN: Garcia, Julia (II) | García, Julia (II) | Garcia, Júlia (II) | García, Júlia (II)
    ►"DN": mariadelasheras ~ SN: Heras, Maria de las | Heras, María de las | de Las Heras, María | De Las Heras, María
    ►"DN": martindelrio ~ SN: Delrio, Martin | del Rio, Martin | Del Rio, Martin | Del Río, Martín
    ►"DN": minjungpark ~ SN: Park, Min Jung | Park, Min-jung | Park, Min-Jung | Park, Minjung
    ►"DN": myunghwankim ~ SN: Kim, Myung Hwan | Kim, Myung-hwan | Kim, Myung-Hwan | Kim, Myunghwan
    ►"DN": nana ~ SN: Na-Na | NaNa | Naná | Nanà
    ►"DN": nayoungkim (I) ~ SN: Kim, Na Young (I) | Kim, Na-young (I) | Kim, Na-Young (I) | Kim, Nayoung (I)
    ►"DN": oscarmartinez (I) ~ SN: Martinez, Oscar (I) | Martínez, Oscar (I) | Martínez, Óscar (I) | Martínez, Òscar (I)
    ►"DN": oscarmartinez (III) ~ SN: Martinez, Oscar (III) | Martínez, Oscar (III) | Martínez, Óscar (III) | Martínez, Òscar (III)
    ►"DN": oscarrodriguez (I) ~ SN: Rodriguez, Oscar (I) | Rodríguez, Oscar (I) | Rodríguez, Óscar (I) | Rodríguez, Òscar (I)
    ►"DN": oscarrodriguez (III) ~ SN: Rodriguez, Oscar (III) | Rodríguez, Oscar (III) | Rodríguez, Óscar (III) | Rodríguez, Òscar (III)
    ►"DN": oscarsantamaria ~ SN: Maria, Oscar Santa | Santamaria, Oscar | Santamaría, Oscar | Santamaría, Óscar
    ►"DN": rafaelvilasanjuan ~ SN: Sanjuán, Rafael Vila | San-Juan, Rafael Vila | Vilasanjuan, Rafael | Vila San Juan, Rafael
    ►"DN": rauldelatorre ~ SN: Torre, Raúl de la | Delatorre, Raul | Dela Torre, Raul | De La Torre, Raul
    ►"DN": ricardodeleon ~ SN: DeLeon, Ricardo | de Leon, Ricardo | de León, Ricardo | De León, Ricardo
    ►"DN": shuyingwang ~ SN: Wang, Shu Ying | Wang, Shu-ying | Wang, Shu-Ying | Wang, Shuying
    ►"DN": soyeonlee ~ SN: Lee, So Yeon | Lee, So-yeon | Lee, So-Yeon | Lee, Soyeon
    ►"DN": steveo ~ SN: Steve-O | Steveo | O, Steve | O., Steve
    ►"DN": taesungkim ~ SN: Kim, Tae Sung | Kim, Tae-sung | Kim, Tae-Sung | Kim, Taesung
    ►"DN": wonsukkim ~ SN: Kim, Won Suk | Kim, Won-suk | Kim, Won-Suk | Kim, Wonsuk
    ►"DN": yongjaepark ~ SN: Park, Yong Jae | Park, Yong-jae | Park, Yong-Jae | Park, Yongjae
    ►"DN": youngsunkim ~ SN: Kim, Young Sun | Kim, Young-sun | Kim, Young-Sun | Kim, Youngsun

  • 3 stored names: 963 cases
  • 2 stored names: 40,911 cases

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Hi Ljdoncel -

Thanks for posting this list of stored names, I have filed a ticket for the inconsistent formatting structures you mentioned for the editorial team to review.  If I have an update on when this can/will be prioritized I will let you know any updates here.  Thanks for reporting, and Happy New Year!
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Thank you very much, Michelle. Happy New Year!
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I would like to thank Ljdoncel for the research needed to compile the above lists.

We should be careful not to impose the same solution on all of those names. While many of those combinations of stored names probably indicate the same person and ought to be merged, others do not.

For example, among the "2 stored names: 40,911 cases" would be Saúl Álvarez and Saul Alvarez. These are two different people, as we just heard from Saul Alvarez without the accents here on this message board recently (see https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/the-boxer-saul-alvarez-and-i-have-the-same-name-and-they-hav...). So we would not want to merge them.
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Thank you very much, gromit.
We should be careful not to impose the same solution on all of those names
I absolutely agree with you... The names ought to be scrutinized on a case-by-case basis and, if there's the slightest doubt about two namesakes, they should be kept separate on different profiles.
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Thanks a bunch for all the work you have done Ljdoncel (and congrats with being a Top Contributor 2017).
(I still hope staff will add "ter" to the list of acceptable parts of names that don't get a red flag)
(Edited)
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Thank you very much, Marco! And very happy 2018 to you too! Birra
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Are you planning on adding "ter" to the list of acceptable parts of names that don't get a red flag? It's inconsistent with other such items (such as "de", "van", "el", "al", "van de", "van der" and so on) not to do it. Apart from that, it leads to people being listed incorrectly in the database.
You may have fixed this for Wil ter Horst, but it's still not possible for me to fix it for Sonja ter Horst, Donny ter Horst, Peter ter Horst, Tauro ter Horst.
Obviously, these are not the only names out there. I only checked some people named 'ter Horst', but that's not the only appearance of 'ter'.
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Any word on this adding "ter" to the list of acceptable parts of names that don't get a red flag?
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Marco

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Bump.