Mykhailo Hrushevsky (Unicode characters in places of birth)

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I was adding some basic facts about Mykhailo Hrushevsky after I've created the page editing one of my titles: usual basic stuff: trivia, portrayals, birth and death dates, links, etc. 

For now date and place of death are a bit stuck in pending (which is okay and not out of the ordinary), but I had a bit of an uncertain situation with the place of birth, as well. That situation being that submission form was unable to process city name of Chełm correctly due to "ł" letter. I've replaced it with the usual "l" as a placeholder intent on asking IMDb Staff here to help with that, however I would love to know wether there's any method to avoid that issue? I am certain there is something, because I often have problems like that with Cyrillic alternate titles and yet people add such titles on regular basis. 
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Posted 2 months ago

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Will, Official Rep

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Hi Nikolay,

Thanks for your message. That's because we can only support certain unicode characters in alternate titles, due to the way we internally store and display our information in different list types. Unfortunately we cannot support those characters in other free-text lists.

I hope this helps to explain the situation.  
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Thanks for clarifying, Will! 
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motley_moth

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Nikolay,

The non-English letters and characters you can use in open-field forms are here: ISO Accented Characters. You'll usually need to enter them manually as HTML.

Only Russian Cyrillic is supported for AKAs. You can't enter Ukrainian Cyrillic directly; you have to substitute Russian Cyrillic. And, except for the Ukrainian 'і', which you must replace with the English 'i', you can't enter letters in Ukrainian Cyrillic that differ from Russian Cyrillic.

And, by the way, do not use the English Wikipedia for geographical names of any location in the former USSR or modern CIS, including Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus. It is not a reliable resource. It's being run by several Russian-Americans immigrants who can't - or won't - speak English. Native English-speakers can immediately see that it's all in a laughable "Rusglish". It's neither Russian nor English, but a ridiculous, squishy mishmash of the two.

Use the Russian Wikipedia, and then transliterate the names using the IMDb rules. Since Russian was the official language of the USSR, you should also use it for locations in the Ukrainian SSR and BSSR. You can use the Ukrainian Wikipedia for current names in Ukraine. And don't forget to note the historical changes.

The place of death should be:
Kislovodsk, Severo-Kavkazskiy kray, RSFSR, USSR [now Stavropolskiy kray, Russia]

motley_moth
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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motley_moth, thanks for advice, but I am not sure about some of the aspects. 

Firstly, Ukraine is no longer a part of CIS. 

Secondly, over the years I've noticed so much glaring errors and deliberate omissions/deformations of information in Russian Wikipedia that I only use it as a complimentary source of information, cross-checking it with other sources. 

Thirdly, regarding your advice on using Russian and English letters in Ukrainian Cyrillic titles... That makes some sense, but whoever used "ii" to make for "ї" made a terrible mistake on dozens of titles, because idential letter also exists in French language and is available for that purpose, as seen in the original title here. Plus, titles with mistakes should not be reflective at all.   
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motley_moth

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Nikolay,

There are mistakes everywhere in every Wikipedia in every language. How's the Ukrainian Wikipedia, really, if you're honest about it? The main thing, what's most important, is that you do not use the English Wikipedia for the names of locations in the former Russian Empire, the former USSR, the CIS or its former member states, or any of their modern equivalents. The English Wikipedia is laughably wrong. I know. I'm a native English-speaker.

If people have been trying to enter the Ukrainian 'ї' by using 'ii', then it's likely that was the best approximation they had available. They were at least trying, instead of just giving up on Ukrainian AKAs entirely - which, of course, is always an option. But even If the same letter exists in French, you cannot use it in a Cyrillic AKA. You cannot use ISO Accented Characters. You can only use Russian Cyrillic and English letters. It is difficult, often impossible, to enter true Ukrainian Cyrillic AKAs. You'll need to compromise. If you do not like 'ii' for 'ї', then what would you suggest, for example, for 'ґ' and 'є'?

Now, dude, chill out! Перестань! Киньте бурчати! I do not want to argue with you. I am trying to help. We both have the same goal: Ensure that the IMDb has the most accurate information available.

motley_moth








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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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motley_moth, I'm trying to get to the root of the problem, not argue. 

If you are a native English speaker then why are you trying to lecture me, native Ukrainian and Russian bilingual instead of correcting my English grammar flubs ("written accent" as I sometimes call it)?  

Anyhow, indeed I have no solution for "ґ" or "є". However, "ї" can almost certainly be inserted using the French character. Because, you see, it is one of the few symbols which are actually allowed when I'm trying to do something about Cyrillic titles.  

As you can see on the screenshot my problem has nothing to do with what you were trying to recommend, even if in the process I've discovered that there are plenty of other problems. 

P.S. "Киньте бурчати!" sounds very odd for modern Ukrainian, like something out of Grigoryi Kvitka-Osnovyanenko writing. By the way why on Earth is he listed as Kvitok-Osnovyanenko on IMDb?..  
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Owen Rees

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I suspect that you have found a bug in the error reporting. "ї" is not available in KOI8-R so cannot be included with the given attribute. Unfortunately the error message seems to ignore the attribute and reports all the characters that cannot be represented in Latin-1.
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motley_moth

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Nikolay,

I guess it's just a Grigoryi Kvitka-Osnovyanenko kind of day. Maybe you'd prefer "Прекрати!"

Now, what is the French character you are talking about? Is it the umlauted 'i' (ï ï) listed on the page of ISO Accented Characters? That won't work. Try it.

Look at the errors. If there is even one letter that is not Russian Cyrillic or English, the server will identify the entire title as Unicode that it does not support, and reject it. This was rejected because of the Ukrainian Cyrillic 'ї' and 'і', The latter could be replaced with an English 'i'. But this particular title, because of the 'ї', cannot be displayed accurately in Cyrillic in the IMDb.

Keep experimenting, though. You need to learn this.

PS.  And "Kislovodsk, North Caucasus Krai, RSFSR, USSR [now Kislovodsk, Russia]" sounds like "Rusglish". It's something someone who doesn't speak English at all would confuse for actual English. Hey, wait a minute. Isn't the IMDb an English website? I wonder if that's important.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Nikolay -

Concerning your screen grab and the potential bug Owen identified, I have alerted our technical team to investigate further, as soon as I have any updates I will let you know here.
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Grea thanks, Michelle!