Indian Movies Top 250

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Well ... in 2 days we've seen 6 new entries from Indian Movies and every movie of the top 250 gained at least one spot. In 3 months we will have a whole Indian Top 250 in the Top 250 ? I don't know if you changed something in the weighted average system but this thing is getting out of control. A lot of strange movements from other Russian movies as well. . I mean "Come and See" no movements in six months +7 in a single day.. Gans of Wasseypur +7 Munna Bhai +5 in a single day!!!! What's happening?
I hope the problem will be fixed and that there aren't bot out there that are ruining our top 250. I've that 3 days ago the chart didn't get updated for a 36 hours. After that, all of a sudden all these strange changes.
You think you will do something to stop this invasion and these strange movements?
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honolulu styles

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Posted 3 months ago

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honolulu styles

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https://250.took.nl/compare/full
This is the link where you can see the movements. Some examples of the strange movements of the last days:
Maltese Falcon (-9 in a day - 5 in the previous 3 months)
Wizard Of Oz (-6 in a day 0 in the previous 3 months)
Sunrise (-6 in a day -5 in the previous 3 months)
It Happened One Night (-6 in a day - 2 in the previous 3 months)
Pirates of The Carribbean (-7 in a day +2 in the previous 3 months)
Andrei Rublev (+4 in a day - 10 in the previous 6 months) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Life of Brian (+3 in a day - 16 in the previous year) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eskyia (+7 in a day - 27 in the previous year) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something has changed for the worse. Hope you will fix it to get a more stable chart.

6 new entries from Indian movies in 2 days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Edited)
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honolulu styles

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no answers from the staff?
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Steve, Official Rep

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Thanks for the heads-up! I've reached out to the team in charge for more info.
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honolulu styles

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New day same issues:
+5Eskiya 201 → 196
+4Drishyam248 → 244
+4Ikiru125 → 121
+3La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc217 → 214
+3Tenkû no shiro Rapyuta245 → 242

−6The Wizard of Oz244 → 250
−3Jaws243 → 246
−2The Third Man138 → 140
−2Logan207 → 209
−2It Happened One Night199 → 201

Turkish, Japanes, and Indian Movies(7 new entries for India in 3 days !!!!!) are gaining 5 place each days and are getting too much attention! Instead classic are leaving the chart dropping 20 places in 2 days like Maltese Falcon or Wizard of Oz that kept place 232 for a year and lost 18 places in 2 days...)
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Steve, Official Rep

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Our voting system is constantly being improved and the formulas used to calculate the ratings and charts are tweaked regularly in order to improve our ability to detect and defeat ballot stuffing and other attempts to influence the results.

Weighted ratings are frequently recalculated, so when the formula is changed, the ratings may also change even without the addition of many votes. The changes you are seeing are normal and result from this periodic fine tuning of the weighing mechanism.

I've updated this post to an Idea so other users can weigh in. The team in charge of this feature are following and will consider all feedback as we continue to improve the site.
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honolulu styles

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I understand that weightd ratings are recalculated..but I think this time you changed "too much" on your algorithm. In 3 months Shawshank and the Godfather will be replaced with 3 Idiots and Gangs Of Wasseypur.
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Steve, Official Rep

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If you would like to exclude Indian titles, you can always use the English Top 250:

https://www.imdb.com/chart/top-english-movies
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honolulu styles

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No. some Indian movies are good. Dangal is beautiful. The problem is the abnormal flooding of the list with titles from turkey Russia or India, that is useless.
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sunofabeach78

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"If you would like to exclude Indian titles, you can always use the English Top 250"

This way we would exclude ALL non-English movies, not just the Indian ones...

But, actually, this is a good idea. It would be nice if we could exclude/choose movies from a certain country, or language, genre, release date etc from the Top 250 list. Just like the options we have now in the Advanced Title Search, but specifically for the Top 250 list.
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honolulu styles

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the answer about changing algorithm could be right BUT there are some issues:
- if you change algorithm movies can go up in 2 or 3 days of 20 or 30 places then if they get downvoted or upvoted can have some smaller movements in the chart.
-here even if indian movies get downvoted and their arithmetichal average vote goes down like in the list below of the last 4 days, they goes magically up:
Gangs of Wasseypur -0,0002 (+7 places)
Lagan -0,0006 (+7 places)
Munna Bhai -0,0021 (+4 places)
Guardians of The Galaxy +0,000 (-2 places)

Here's the list of the top movements of the last 2 weeks:
+20 Eskya
+20 Gangs of Wasseypur
+20 Lagaan
+16 Come And See
+14 Munna Bhai

-24 Sunrise
-22 The Maltese Falcon
-15 The Wizard Of Oz
-15 It Happened One Night
-13 Les Diaboliques

You are pushing without reason no famous non-us movies and pushing out of the chart classic like the one above.
I think something is not working in your algorithm. If you want a hand I can help you out with some weighted formulas.

ps: don't use the excuse the the top 250 is about votes from regular users, because i don't think that occasionally user ONLY downvote Indian movies and UPVOTE more commercial features. And i think in the same way that regular users not only upvoted Indian or Russian movies.

Please fix it soon, the chart is becoming a joke!
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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It would appear that there is a definite trend by the People of India to vote by national pride in their film industry rather than voting by an actual true rating of a scale of like to dislike. If it's made in India, it must be a 10. With 1.333 billion in population for the country, bots don't need to upvote a title...the combined population is doing the "stuffing" all on it's own. The low top 1000 voters votes should be a clue, and the number percentage of 10 rankings should make this hypothesis clear to anyone that really looks closely.

I have only used two example below. I looked further and found another dozen that have the same pattern. The pride of the people of India is commendable. But there is a problem when a specific group of persons are not conforming to the rules the rest of us voluntarily adhere to.


Adhanhun 132, top 1000 voters 5.6 rating 39% of the votes are a 10!?!? The Highest group!


https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5074352/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt

Same issue........... top 1000 is 5.9
10 Votes are out of alignment



Same again.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1187043/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt




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honolulu styles

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Exactly !!! That is my distribution of votes:
And this is from an Indian guy that voted andandhun with a 10:
You can clearly see that something has to change. A new formula and algorithm should be created to have a fairer chart. Ok some Indian movies are good and personally I loved dangal but it's not correct to delete from the chart the classics I posted above to make room for 10 Indian movies that NOBODY outside India knows. So this is not representative of the world's votes but just some country's votes
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Canada, The US, Mexico, and England's population is 37.06 million, 327.2 million, 129.2 million, and 66.04 million respectively. That is not even 1/2 of India's population.

There needs to be a split of titles by language and distribution. Not Countries.

Or at the very least the algorithm needs to be rewritten to take into account the distribution only of titles for inclusion in the 250 list.
If it is not world wide in its showing, it should not be on a worldwide list.

Also
My ability to vote on those titles is there, but I really cannot give a true opinion and rank it as because as the old saying goes, "The meaning is lost in translation". It may be great in it's home language, but horrible in English or visa versa. Or it may not be available at in English. That locks me out of rating it altogether. If 100% of IMDb members do not have access (Language Wise) to all movies that are eligible for the top 250, then how accurate can the list actually be?
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honolulu styles

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Well.. a super easy method would be set a couple treshold for example:
-percentage of '1' votes > 3%
-top 1000 voters votes <6
If a movie have one of those two chriteria the film could not be in the top 250.

In this way we will delete from the chart:
-Drishyam
-Swades
-PK (4,7% of "1" votes !!!!!!!)
-Munna Bhai
-Gangs of Wasseypur
-Lagaan
-La Battaglia di Algeri
-Dangal
-Come and See
-Andhandhun
-Sherlock Jr.
-Eskiya
-Andrej Rublev
-La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc
-Rang de Basanti
-Sunrise
-Le Salaire de La Peure
-Tokyo Monogatari
-Babam ve Oglum
-Taare Zamen Par

Now you have 20 titles that don't deserve to be on the list, for one of the reason i said: the top voters didn't vote high the title or a lot of people think that that title is trash.

My idea is a great idea to keep the chart great with still some foreign movies like 3 Idiots or Rashomon or Myiazaki movies, but you keep only the great one in the chart.
It's an easy implementation.

Hope the staff read my suggestion, i think other 20 titles would enter the chart and make the list great once again. We will se re-enter:
-Dog day afternoon
-Exorcist
-Jaws
-Beauty And The Beast
-Red Lantern
-Wizard of Oz
-Castle in the sky
-Grapes of wrath
-Maltese falcon

Why you ruined the list with this useless update?
(Edited)
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Aaron

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In response to honolulu styles,

Why would you want to remove The Battle of Algiers, Come and See, Sherlock Jr, Andrei Rublev, The Passion of Joan of Arc, Sunrise, The Wages of Fear, and Tokyo Story from the list? Those are some of the most acclaimed films of all time. Removing them would only serve to devalue the list.

I do agree it's a shame that classics such as Jaws, The Wizard of Oz, and The Maltese Falcon have dropped off. They were on a downward trajectory anyway though, so it was only a matter of time.

The Top 250 has always been an imperfect list. This probably isn't worth worrying about.
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bderoes, Champion

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honolulu styles,
Perhaps you should make your own Top 250 by doing an Advanced Title Search each time you want to see them. You could select only the languages/countries you wanted to include, and sort by rating. Something like this:
https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=feature&release_date=,2010-12-31&user_rating=8.0,&groups=top_1000&!languages=fr,hi&view=simple&sort=user_rating,desc&count=250
Notice that I cut off the release date at 2010 to avoid all the temporarily high current releases.

Also notice the "!" in the 
&!languages=fr,hi
section. That indicates NOT these languages. I had to add that by hand after selecting the language(s) that I (actually) didn't want. Or I could have put it before one language and not the other: &language=fr,!hi

Once you've perfected your selection process, you can bookmark it and get comparable results each time.
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honolulu styles

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Aaron:

I do not want to delete all these movies. It wasn't a list of movies I don't like but just a list of movies that won't do the list if you put the threshold I suggested.

Bderoes:

I can do whatever list I want. I know. I don't wanna delete all the Indians or French movies. A lot of them are good. I don't wanna be flooded with plenty of titles just because Indians are 1 billions and vote every title 10
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honolulu styles

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The Real problem a part all these Indian moviesis is that usually we had 7 or 8 changes per day in the last year. It's been two weeks that in a list of 250 movies we have 150 or 160 changes every day. That's the reason I say something is wrong and has to be changed. Too many changes. It feels like a rush all these changes all of a sudden.
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honolulu styles

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the funniest thing about this is that, since all these new entries, in a couple months we have a top 250 Indian film and a top 250 (that is meant to be a worldwide chart, but it will be filled with 250 indian films). Indian IMDBers will be happy. What about the rest of the world? I think we'll move to another site and keep IMDB an Indian site if this is what IMDB wants...
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Marco

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I really hope a staffer will give a non-generic response. Either IMDb has been compromised or they've changed something significantly. See this post as well: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/glitch-on-the-ratings-system

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honolulu styles

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I've reported my ideas to that other thread as well. Hope somebody from the staff will give us soon some answers..
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Angelo Pilla

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Hi, as you could see, the problem isn't affecting only the Top 250, but the whole site. Thousands of movies had suffered a suddenly and abrupt drop on its ratings. It looks like it has stopped now, but the ratings were not restored to the way they were a week ago. I hope they can fix this. 
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Marco

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I hope they can fix this.

Or explain it.
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sunofabeach78

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Up to 28 July 2019, the Top 250 list was functioning the way we knew (and most of us accepted and enjoyed).

Since 28 July 2019 (the last 15 days), these changes took place:

Out:

Da hong deng long gao gao gua
The Exorcist
Dog Day Afternoon
Beauty and the Beast
The Maltese Falcon
Jaws
The Wizard of Oz
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl 
Les Diaboliques
The Grapes of Wrath
Tenkû no shiro Rapyuta
Donnie Darko
La leggenda del pianista sull'oceano

In:
Drishyam
Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood
Munna Bhai M.B.B.S.
Gangs of Wasseypur
Lagaan: Once Upon a Time in India
PK
Swades: We, the People
A Wednesday
Zerkalo 
El ángel exterminador
Sholay
Dil Chahta Hai
Chak De! India

I think it's pretty obvious what's happening here: A MASSIVE rise of Indian movies into the Top 250 list!

10 out of 13 new entries are Indian movies. And if we take into consideration that 2 movies ("Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood" and  "El ángel exterminador") entered the list because they reached the 25000 votes' limit, this means that 10 out of the 11 movies that were favoured by the new... "recalculation" and the "formula change" are Indian movies!

Also, they didn't just enter the list and get a ranking somewhere between 240-250 (which would be the normal ranking for new entries) and then slowly continue to change places. No, this happens with the rest 240 movies, but the Indian new entries seem to have different "treatment" and some jump up to 20 places, just in a few days!

Some people say it's a glitch or a foul play from outside, i really hope it's something like this, because it would mean that eventually it will be fixed. But i'm afraid neither is happening, i'm guessing (and i hope i'm wrong...) that there is a significant change in the company policy, to further promote in the HUGE Indian market and... well, these are the results.

The Top 250 list is determined, as indicated by Imdb, by the votes of "regular voters". My guess, again, of what is happening, is that Imdb decided for the wrong reasons to give the "regular voter" status to many guys from India and since these guys rate 9/10 and 10/10 their domestic films, well, we are witnessing the effects of these decisions. I just hope that Imdb changes quickly this path...
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sunofabeach78

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This is what i posted in the other relevant thread, "Glitch on the ratings system", 2 days ago:

"Also The Exorcist, Beauty and the Beast, Donnie Darko, Dog Day Afternoon and others...


If this continues, i'm afraid in the next few days we 'll have to say goodbye to Gandhi, Groundhog Day (both huge drops in the last days), and then maybe Akira, Paris, Texas, Guardians of the Galaxy, Before Sunset, The Terminator...?? :("

And today, sadly we saw Gandhi and Groundhog Day being removed from the Top 250 list...

They were replaced by "La leggenda del pianista sull'oceano" (which in the last weeks enters and leaves the list every day) and, of course, another Indian movie, named "Chak De! India". That movie lost its place yesterday by "Mou gaan dou", but today not only re-entered the list, but also gained 5 positions to place 245...

And of course almost all other Indian movies in the Top 250 also had rises: Sholay +1, A Wednesday +1, Drishyam +1, PK +2, Munna +1, Lagaan +2, Gangs of Wasseypur +3...
All other groups of movies have examples of both rises and falls in this "recalculation" by IMDB, but Indian movies seem to only benefit from it and only go up.
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Angelo Pilla

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled IMDb on the brink of disaster.

All the movies on database which were on a normal and slow decline in the ratings are now falling at an absurd speed. Soon, and I ain't kidding, all of these movies will reach 1.0 in the ratings and the ratings system will collapse. Please, reset the "adjustments" you were trying to make before it's too late. I know what I am talking about. I use IMDb since 1995 and I never seen nothing like this. Thanks. 
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sunofabeach78

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Yesterday and today's changes (as shown at https://250.took.nl ):

3 Idiots +1
Taare Zameen Par +1
Dangal +3
Andhadhun +4
Rang De Basanti +8
Gangs of Wasseypur +7
Lagaan: Once Upon a Time in India +6
Munna Bhai M.B.B.S. +5
Swades: We, the People +2
PK +3
Drishyam +3
Dil Chahta Hai +8
A Wednesday +3
Sholay +8
Chak De! India New

There were 178 changes, all kinds of movies went up or down, expept the Indian ones which had huge rises and new entries AGAIN. ALL 15 of them.

Some call this "fine tuning"...

P.S. There is a movie, Eskiya (not Indian btw), which gained +9, for a total of... +37 the past two weeks! If they continue this "fine tuning" for the next 2-3 months, watch your back, The Shawshank Redemption! :))
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Luke ltroh

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The most shameless "vote brigading" occurred at this title: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7738784/. Shows 9.3 on the page but have only 8.1 on the Top Rated Tamil Movies, ranked 16: https://www.imdb.com/india/top-rated-tamil-movies/. That is a huge difference, and more evident when compared with others movies above it on the list. It has been only 6 months since the film released, yet it got 10,000+ votes, again a huge count within a short time for a movie in that language, even the top rated movie on the list have just 13,000+ votes, released in 1987. The most weirdest thing above all is 84.4% voted 10 : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7738784/ratings

Fake voting was done by the lead actor's fans. I remember that when the film was released in February, open campaign was going on at fan groups in Facebook and Whatsapp requesting to rate the film 10 from as many accounts as possible. I request the IMDb staffs to look into this and cull down all the fake votes. This title itself is a perfect sample for studying how fake votes are accumulating in certain titles and how they influence the rating.
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sunofabeach78

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I just visited the movie you mention, you are absolutely right, that's BEYOND RIDICULOUS!

There are 350 reviews for that movie (whereas movies with 100 000+ votes have less reviews), all 10/10 :))  Just a look at the headlines, laughable!

You say that you asked IMDB staff to look into this, did they? Did they respond and/or took some action?
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Luke ltroh

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Apparently not. But I would like to believe they are investigating it right now and will give an update. I hope they do. This one definitely demands a probe.
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Philip Perkins

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Ratings.

I notice a recent dump in the rating scores of older films. Is this an error or is IMDb dumping ratings for older films in favor of the cartoon and superhero crap that floods the market nowadays? Just curious.
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Jeorj Euler

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LOL
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mattias1996

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Why is every show randomly getting lower-rated?.

I noticed first how most episodes of Little House On The Prairie now are going down in the ratings. This really weirded me out, since I saw no reason for people to suddenly get negative about it. It's not like Game Of Thrones, where people still are upset with the final season.

As if that wasn't weird enough though, I'm now noticing every show has a lower rating than before. No matter how much praise they've gotten.

This is too frequent to be a coincidence. What the hell is going on with the ratings? Is imdb adjusting their voting system?
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Philip Perkins

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As I said, it seems to be an IMDb dump on ratings for all films and tv shows more than 20 years old. Movies that have thousands of votes suddenly plunge overnight. Not mathematically possible, so IMdb has re-rigged the "weighted" averages to favor this generation's obsessions with comic books and cartoons. All this does is make IMDb rating about as valid as those on that tomatometer thing.
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Jeorj Euler

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No such obsession exists. Also, movie adaptations of only a few specific brands of comic books and cartoons, older material, are saturating the cinema market. Hardly anybody is attracted to them just for the sake of comic books in general or cartoons in general.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Philip Perkins it is a common misconception that a large fandom of movies based on comics is anything new. Batman (1989) might have been the first large case of national and international explosion of such kind of pop-culture fame, but it was hardly the only case nor it was the oldest. It just took Hollywood ages to figure out that comics could be a profitable source of characters and stories and then ages to understand that using fewer elements for movies is not exactly working. 

In 1989 it got as far as thinking that 60's TV series about Batman was the reason for popularity of the movie, despite a clear distinction and a very serious tonal difference between the two.  
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Jeorj Euler

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We are living in a particular point in time when not only do today's children grow up having or looking at Superman comic books, but their parents, grandparents and great grandparents as well. (It's impossible for them to all belong to the same generation.) Unlike DC, Marvel has a large quantity of comic book protagonists from which to draw for adaptation, so it kind of winds up translating into a large quantity of movies, and all of them have at least a passing grade in terms of quality. More tools are available now than ever before for adequately producing live-action movie renditions (that have a believable "feel") of these themes.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Jeorj Euler, DC's library is equally huge, just not as known. Keep in mind that it also integrates characters from now-defunct Charlston, Fawcett, MLG/Red Circle and many more publishing houses.  
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mattias1996

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I hope this new ratings "adjustment" stops soon. I mean, it's been going on for 3 weeks now, for Christ's sake! I'm tired of all my favorite shows going down in the numbers. I was really glad when Laverne & Shirley finally got to the 7's, only to go down to 6.9 again. :(
(Edited)