IMDb's policy is transphobic and harmful and it needs to change

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I understand that IMDb wishes to remain accurate, but their current policy most certainly needs to be changed, as it can be dangerous to some actors. As an actor, I believe that an actor’s feelings should come before “accuracy.” Actors are real people with real feelings and real experiences. Transgender actors exist, as do actors who have suffered an abusive past. 

I can understand connecting “typos” to the same name, as I wouldn’t care so much if I was connected to “Rory Roach” or “Rory Roache,” etc. However, the name in question, which I will NOT be typing again because the very sight of it makes me PHYSICALLY ILL, is from a part of my life that in keeping it plastered on my IMDb credits, puts me in great danger. I will not and should not have to explain my personal life in order to have this name removed. I simply expect this request to be understood. I’ll explain in more detail. 

As I said, transgender actors exist. Some, in fact, have acted since before coming out as transgender, and some have been out since before IMDb even existed. That said, transgender people face many dangers. Forcing them to be known as a name that they don’t associate with could out them and in turn, result in their murder. Your policy forces this, and therefore, in that case, should be held responsible for any murder committed because of this. I’m sure you don’t want that. Furthermore, it can and does cause them harm to see a name they never wanted in the first place. 

As for abuse survivors, forcing this alternate name could result in the actor’s abuser finding them and causing more harm. Do you wish to cause harm to the actor? 

I’ve been more than patient with this issue. I’ve expressed how seeing this name, attributed to a very bad part of my life, makes me feel. I understand you wish to give accurate information, but it will not hurt someone to be a little confused by different credits. It does, however, hurt me greatly every single time I see this name. 

I’ve offered the solution of deleting, but as I had to fight tooth and nail for a credit in the first place, from abusive directors, I’ve opted to keep my credit. However, the solution now is to mark it uncredited. Accept this solution. This is no longer a request. You are hurting me and I believe that my feelings and my health come before “accuracy.” The “alternate name” is no longer connected to any existing human, and certainly not to me, so in truth, regardless of film credit, your forceful policy is creating the largest inaccuracy. This alternate name does not exist. Listing me as [uncredited] is a solution for both of us. The alternate name doesn’t exist, and Rory J. Roche did not receive credits despite participating in the film. I’ve already expressed that Savior never made it to DVD, so I cannot provide “proof” of any credit. 

I also deleted credits that I do not want. I want nothing to do with the three credits due to personal trauma to do with the show. Things happened that I do not need to discuss, but I do not want to be known for these things. 

Please reconsider your policy, and make it safe for actors that do not fit into your tiny boxes. And while you’re at it, please add more genders to the list. Not everyone is male or female. Intersex people exist. Transgender, nonbinary, genderfluid, and agender actors exist. If you’re confused about a pronoun to use, provide a slot in which the actor in question can tell you their pronoun. Simple. 

Thank you, 
Rory J. Roche

This is what I had posted to IMDb support. They accepted the change to uncredited, however, they have since changed it back to a name that I do not associate with and it's sickening. I am absolutely sick of this battle. I only want to be credited as Rory J. Roche, or uncredited, or simply not credited at all. Their constant issue with this is transphobic and disgusting. At this point, it is harassment. They're forcing me to use a name that isn't mine. They need to fix this and they need to make it more trans friendly. The actor and their feelings/health/safety should come before "accuracy."
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Rory Roche

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Twintalks A life in the fag lane

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Everyone should be respected. IMDB step your game up. Trans people exist and have feelings just like you. Imagine if this was your family or child. Get over yourself and give trans people the respect they deserve!
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Hello, Rory.
 
Is that your page? 

Unfortunately, IMDb is a database which covers factual information about films and people involved. If you were credited by this name in your previous works, then filmography should display that. Likely the name could have been added by people who have seen the film, discovered the difference in the credits and did the right thing by correcting the listings according to the credits. However if you were not listed by that name on any title, that should indeed be removed and "(uncredited)" attribute should be instated.  

IMDb's policy is not in any way transphobic. It is quite progressive. It's just that IMDb collects factual information, which should be preserved, because it is plastered all over the film. Even if changed, it will eventually be corrected by someone, because movies are watched and people are re-checking end credits from time to time. A good example of a transgender person's page (in my humble opinion) is Alexis Arquette

That said, there are indeed problems with that. I won't pretend that I have full understanding of such situations, but I will try to help in any way I can.   
(Edited)
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Kelly L.

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It's the same as with any other kind of employment - you cannot leave out pre-transition parts of your work history (if asked) without risking it being construed as a misrepresentation, even if you don't want to be associated with your birth gender/name anymore.
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Rory Roche

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Firstly, I didn't ask for the opinion of cis people. I gave you a suggestion to make the policy better and safer for everyone. Cis people wouldn't understand what it's like because they've never experienced it. Secondly, you don't get to determine what is or is not transphobic. You've proven with your language that you and your policy is transphobic. My imdb itself refers to me as an actor and uses they pronouns but you went ahead to call me "she" which is rude and disrespectful and guess what? TRANSPHOBIC. The book you mentions isn't even out anymore for the same reason but your stupid site is being so difficult that I didn't get the dead link taken down yet.

It really wouldn't kill you to make it so that an actor doesn't need to have credits they don't want. It could kill them though. You could even make it so that an actor can opt that only people they give permission to can alter their credits. Why should a random stranger be able to? That's dangerous! People are sick. People make things up. People start rumors. If you're not going to fix this, take me off imdb altogether because I want absolutely nothing to do with such a willingly transphobic company.
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Kelly L.

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Rory - MANY people in the entertainment industry, for many different reasons, have asked IMDb to remove their credits. I do not know of any cases where IMDb has removed a factually correct credit associated with a publicly released work due to personally not wanting to be associated with it. All these cases include among others those who once worked in the porn industry, films that they now disagree with for political or other reasons, directors they didn't liked, and transgender people like you.

We have even had an actress sue IMDb in court to remove her date of birth because of age discrimination. Guess who won? Not her. To counteract that California has even tried passing a law forcing sites like IMDb to remove ages or dates of birth upon request. IMDb is challenging that law, and while it's still pending, the court suspended enforcement of the law for now given its questionable constitutionality (in terms of free speech rights). That indicates about how much luck you'll probably have if you'd like to legally challenge this policy.
(Edited)
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Emma Arpin

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Credits can be updated and so can policies. The current policy willfully ignores how third parties can, and do, use information provided on the site to discriminate trans people in employment, housing, and their social life.

The policy is also at odds with Amazon's recent statement of support for the trans community. Amazon signed on a letter with other tech companies this fall, that said “What harms transgender people harms our companies.”
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Kati Knitt

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IMDb's policy is not in any way transphobic.
Any page that excuses deadnaming with "facts" is trans discriminating. "Factual information" should not stand above the well being of trans actors.
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Jeorj Euler

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You can never expect to achieve what you would like by being hostile to the powers that be.
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TheMelancholicAlcoholic

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"You can never expect to achieve what you would like by being hostile to the powers that be"
A good recipe for cowardice. 
Tell George Washinghton that. If Martin Luther King, or Ghandi had thought like that, we would still have separate lunch counters and drink fountains, and India would still be a colony of England. Regards, #TheResistance
It's weird that IMDb prefers to have transgender people beaten up or worse, for the sake of "accuracy".
Bet if it was about Jewish-Americans, it would be done. Do transgenders have to have six million of theirs killed too, before you listen? Or is the present number of 1000s getting beaten up or publicly humiliated enough? 
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Jeorj Euler

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In George Washington's case, he was the power that be. In Martin Luther King's case, he wasn't particularly hostile, and he had a lot of help from people belonging to the "majority group", thanks largely to not antagonizing the helpful ones. Likewise for Ghandi. Take care not to go around picking a fight with somebody is not explicitly against you.
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Kelly L.

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Following on what I said when this topic was originally posted, the reason this transperson's birth name is shown is not to intentionally harm him, nor is it even done for trivial/biographical reasons. He is credited in publicly released works under that name, and since IMDb has a very strict policy about not deleting factual credits or splitting a person's filmography for reasons of not misleading the public into thinking the works are done by two different people, those credits under his former name should stay. If anything, creating a carve-out here for transgender people is not fair to those who may want their filmography redacted or split for other reasons.

ETA1: Your analogy of racial segregation fails because there black people were wanting the same rights as whites, no more and no less. This transperson wants IMDb to create a special exemption to its credit rules.

ETA2: I agree that a transperson's birth name should not be publicized or asked for when it is not relevant to the issue in question (same thing about their surgical status, etc.). Rory's case on IMDb is different because the old name is relevant since he had been credited under it. In the context of IMDb, an example where the birth name would not be relevant would be a transperson whose filmography entirely postdates their social transition (and there I agree that the birth name should not be mentioned in the biography unless it's already "common knowledge" to the public since then there's no practical need to know the name to identify credits unlike in this discussion's case).

ETA3: Notice that I am not transphobic (e.g. I refer to Rory using the pronouns of the gender he identifies with), but a balance needs to exist with not "deadnaming" a transperson for an inappropriate or no reason vs. mentioning the name to properly identify what they've worked on.
(Edited)
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Jeorj Euler

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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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I'm surprised that an IMDb Employee or Board Administrator has not chimed in on this!
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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7 Months old?
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Jeorj Euler

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Quite frankly, it is surprising that the topic was not deleted or archived with expediency. Perhaps a sort of nullification was and remains afoot. Nikolay Yeriomin is a forum administrator, by the way, and he replied almost immediately. Notice the remark, "I didn't ask for the opinion of cis people", from the creator of this topic? That right there kind of shutdown all reasonable dialog on the matter. Two can play that game, so to speak. Whatever.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Back to My surprised part again. As for the chimed in. That would include closing the thread.
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Jeorj Euler

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Well, "nullification", as I call it, is not really all that unusual around here.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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There is a lot of things to notice overall. Plus people have things that interrupt them.
If no one replies and it's a busy post day, this could have been 10 pages down and forgotten.
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Emma Arpin

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It's been almost a year, and IMDb has not updated this policy. What's going on? Revealing trans people’s deadnames by listing it in the birth name section or in the case of credits, like Current Name (as Deadname), puts them at risk for discrimination in the film industry, other day jobs, housing, and their social life in general. IMDb is one of top google results for most people.

I realize that IMDb has a policy to publish and maintain “factual information,” but IMDb needs to take responsibility for how their service affects people for the rest of their lives. Many of the credits that get listed on IMDb are small projects, like youtube videos and student projects, which don’t really reflect someone’s professional work history. According to your system, a young person who volunteers as a PA or background actor, works on a student project, or youtube video, should be punished for the rest of their life, if someone happened to deadname them in the credits.

Similarly, publishing people’s deadnames in the “birth name” section of your site puts them at risk. IMDb assists third parties in discrimination, and it punishes trans people for sharing their experiences with the world through productions like Orange is the New Black, Pose, Transparent, and many smaller projects. The majority of trans people listed in your database are not celebrities known to the general public before transition, such as Caitlyn Jenner.

Until about a month or two ago, IMDb also had a policy that said, "We generally use people’s biological or surgically reassigned gender” to determine the designation of gender specific titles, like actor or actress. I saw that you changed this policy, after it was pointed out that it was at odds with Amazon’s own corporate stance. Amazon signed a letter in support of the trans community, following the legal erasure of trans people in the United States this past fall. IMDb, as a part of Amazon, needs to take responsibility for how the site affects the trans community. You can’t take credit for supporting the community, while ignoring the harm that your services cause.

There are simple solutions to this issue, such as allowing trans people under certain circumstances to update credits and/or the splitting of IMDb pages in limited cases. Additionally, there is no purpose, beyond selling gossip, in publishing trans people’s deadname in the “birth name” category of the site. This situation isn’t like actors who happen to take on a stage name or a maiden name.

(Edited)
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Emma Arpin

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled IMDb shows indifference to the trans community.

IMDb shows indifference to the trans community through several policies. One of the most troubling examples of this pattern is the deadnaming—using the name assigned at birth—of trans talent, crew, writers, producer, directors, etc. IMDb deadnames people through two separate methods.

In the first, IMDb lists the “birth name” of people in the biography section of the site, and I can easily find examples of trans celebrities who are currently being burned this way. Listing the deadnames of trans people this way serves little purpose,
other than selling gossip, at the expense of trans people. This
situation isn't like actors who previously used a maiden name, or happen
to have taken on a stage name.

In the second, IMDb insists on listing credits as “Current Name (as Deadname),” if the person previously received an IMDb credit under their deadname. Some might say that if a person previously received a credit, this credit should stand, so that people can track a person over the course of their career. This thread ignores how the majority of trans people listed on IMDb are not celebrities who were known to the general public before transition, like Caitlyn Jenner. IMDb significantly lowered the bar for what qualifies for a listing over the years, and now, many of the listed projects are web videos, hopeful student projects, short films, and projects that never screen.

The majority of people listed on IMDb are working class people who are fighting for employment in the industry, and IMDb’s method of deadnaming trans people assists third parties in discrimination in the film/tv industry, other day jobs, housing, and their social life. IMDb is one of the top google results for most people. IMDb would punish a young person for the rest of their life for volunteering as a PA, background actor, student project, or web video through deadnaming them.

This could easily be solved by 1. allowing trans people to update their credits under certain circumstances and/or 2. allowing trans people to “split” IMDb pages in limited circumstances. Credits can be updated, and so can policies.

Until about a month or two ago, IMDb also had a policy that said, "We generally use people’s biological or surgically reassigned gender” to determine the designation of gender specific titles, like actor or actress. I noticed that this changed after it was pointed out that the policy was at odds with the corporate stance of Amazon, IMDb’s parent company. Amazon, along with other tech companies, signed on a letter of support for the trans community, after the legal erasure of trans people this past fall. While IMDb changed the wording of this policy, they still misgender non-binary actors who do not fit into “actor” or “actress.” This could easily be solved by creating a single category of “actor” for all performers.

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Kati Knitt

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Yes. IMDb's disinterest in this issue is absolutely ridiculous and wrong.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Not wrong.
This is not a democracy.
You are .6% of world population.
You are not even in a majority in a democracy!
There are for more pressing things in life.
And think about this........are you more entitled to alteration here than you would be if this was "The Washington Post", or CNN?
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Rob Sieger if anyone here sounds "unprecedentedly militant" it's you with your rhetoric about "powerful" special interest group bordering hate speech. 

My philosophy on that issue might seem odd, but I when you're trying to persuade majority to continue ignore minorities you should actually think about one simple thing: minorities is an outdated concept in itself. We should stop dividing people into groups, no matter how large or small and treat them individually, case-to-case. Of course, for society that for centuries used simplified idiotism that leads to segregation, discrimination,  and witch-hunting such ideas might seem to be to radical because they directly contradict our society's inherent vice of laziness and opposing changes. It's much easier to continue dividing people into groups and find some groups to oppose then actually confront yourself about the fact that differences are so scarce that effectively you might as well put yourself in the group and no one will notice.  

It is very much ironic since adaptibility is what made people so widespread and our ability to somehow supress our natural instincts (instincts, which in many cases prevent rational thinking in the modern world) is perhaps our only truly unique feature as a species. People pathologically don't want to change. They don't want to change their habits, their vocabulary, they oppose changes at every direction and every corner, not understanding a simple thing: changes are inevitable. 

P.S. I've also removed your double comment. 
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Rob Sieger

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Nikolay Yeriomin -- Thanks but you appear to have removed both. There is plenty Orwellian and dystopian about present-day United States, which is what I was referring to, and there are powerful special interest groups whose interests coincide with what the IMDb database was (apparently) created to compile. 

I am not 100% sure what "but I when you're trying to persuade majority to continue ignore minorities you should actually think about one simple thing: minorities is an outdated concept in itself" means, but I certainly agree that we should not divide people. That is what identity politics does. That is what Rory Roche's opinions of cis people are an example of. And that is why "transphobia" and "diversity" manias are but the tip of the iceberg of the destructive and divisive dystopia in which the US finds itself.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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I've deleted a duplicate of this one and it seems to be in place: 


And where exactly such example of behavior towards your situational enemy group came from?.. Of course minorities get angry and bitter overtime, turning to use exact same methods that opression does. I know because I am a minority in several different aspects: I have a diasbility, I am an internally dislocated person (a refugee but within one country) and I am also just plain too "weird" which in minds of too many people unties their hands and language in regards of harassment. That made me bitter and agressive towards anyone who tries to disregard other people's opinion. I hate to see that happen on both sides of any conflict. So far most of our society's attempts at fixing our problems is fighting fire with fire, which mostly doesn't work. 
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Jeorj Euler

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Faraday Speaks makes excellent points about the way radicalization via the Internet works and how halfway-informed identity politics exhibitionists and borderline fringe elements can be mistaken for "authority" by ordinary folks or others. In addition, he is right about how it may be a mistake for "progressives" and advocates of social "justice" to plainly write off conservatives, objectivists, libertarians and nationalists as foolish, delusional or insidious. On the other hand, he has not exactly clarified where he stands on the concept of cultural "authority", linguistic "authority", conceptual "authority", likewise dogma or so, and he may have set up two particular YouTube personas of the social "justice" advocacy flavor as substitute "authority", in the process of thanking them, and likely he owes them thanks in the context of guidance, but his presentation comes off as blind to the corruption that exists in the "left" regardless of how imperfect certain youthful pro-Trump loudmouths are.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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What is Faraday's law?
Learn what Faraday's law means and how to use it to determine the induced electro-motive force.
Google Classroom



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What is electromagnetic induction?
Electromagnetic induction is the process by which a current can be induced to flow due to a changing magnetic field.

In our article on the magnetic force we looked at the force experienced by moving charges in a magnetic field. The force on a current-carrying wire due to the electrons which move within it when a magnetic field is present is a classic example. This process also works in reverse. Either moving a wire through a magnetic field or (equivalently) changing the strength of the magnetic field over time can cause a current to flow.



How is this described?
There are two key laws that describe electromagnetic induction:

  1. Faraday's law, due to 19th century physicist Michael Faraday. This relates the rate of change of magnetic flux through a loop to the magnitude of the electro-motive force E\mathcal{E}E induced in the loop. The relationship is
    E=dΦdt\mathcal{E} = \frac{\mathrm{d}\Phi}{\mathrm{d}t}E=dt






dΦ​

The electromotive force or EMF refers to the potential difference across the unloaded loop (i.e. when the resistance in the circuit is high). In practice it is often sufficient to think of EMF as voltage since both voltage and EMF are measured using the same unit, the volt. [Explain]
The take-away point here is that a wire moving in a field does not necessarily represent an ideal voltage source; the voltage you might measure with a high-impedance voltmeter would only equal the EMF if the load is small.






Lenz's law is a consequence of conservation of energy applied to electromagnetic induction. It was formulated by Heinrich Lenz in 1833. While Faraday's law tells us the magnitude of the EMF produced, Lenz's law tells us the direction that current will flow. It states that the direction is always such that it will oppose the change in flux which produced it. This means that any magnetic field produced by an induced current will be in the opposite direction to the change in the original field.
Lenz's law is typically incorporated into Faraday's law with a minus sign, the inclusion of which allows the same coordinate system to be used for both the flux and EMF. The result is sometimes called the Faraday-Lenz law,
E=−dΦdt\mathcal{E} = -\frac{\mathrm{d}\Phi}{\mathrm{d}t}E=−dt

dΦ​

In practice we often deal with magnetic induction in multiple coils of wire each of which contribute the same EMF. For this reason an additional term NNNN representing the number of turns is often included, i.e.
E=−NdΦdt\mathcal{E} = -N \frac{\mathrm{d}\Phi}{\mathrm{d}t}E=−Ndt

  1. dΦ​




What is the connection between Faraday's law of induction and the magnetic force?
While the full theoretical underpinning of Faraday's law is quite complex, a conceptual understanding of the direct connection to the magnetic force on a charged particle is relatively straightforward.





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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Please everyone.
We have all stated our opinions on the matter. Continuing to engage Kati is counterproductive.
We are not going to change her mind.
She is not going to change our minds.
She has nothing new to say.
Let her post away to herself.
She is SAYING NOTHING NEW!
She is inciting others to reply with inflammatory remarks.
We are better than that.
Silence will eventually result in her disappearance.
The sooner the better.
Thanks all.
Cheers.


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Kati Knitt

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Science never stops evolving, if it would, we'd stll think the earth was flat. And as our understanding of the world evolves, norms do too and new rules are necessary. It's not that scary.
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Rob Sieger science is based on doubt and doubts itself constantly. Your approach to science basically replaces religion in your system of values, ignoring it's own core principle of critical thinking. 

Kati Knitt, unfortunately, recent resurgence of flat Earth ideas can tell a lot about the state of modern society. 
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Kati Knitt

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Hahaha, they really can
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Jeorj Euler

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I contend that hardly anybody actually ever believed the earth to be flat or structured in such a way that traveling in any direction for too great of a distance would lead to an edge of a bottomless pit. The perpetuation of the claim that older or ancient societies believed such a thing is largely a misconception in the educational systems or even an error in findings leading to the misconceptions. The notable antiquated disputes, at least in the context of Europe, were actually about the idea that all other celestial bodies in the universe revolved around planet earth, which they do not, and the size of the earth in regards to being able supply a sail ship with enough provisions to safely travel from Spain to India by sailing only in a non-westward direction.
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Jeorj Euler

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I meant "non-eastward" rather than "non-westward".
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Kati Knitt

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I will never disappear until this policy is changed. And I will publicly campaign against IMDb on this decision.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Inflammatory remark Kati.
Please move on
You are not giving new info.
Please cease.
Thanks
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Rob Sieger

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If someone is going to become a nuisance or worse then they should be blocked or banned, period. 
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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She is not very far away from that
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Kati Knitt

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I just defend my point, the person copy and pasting the same text over and over is you.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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How many times did your parents tell you not to do something until it finally sunk in?

Please move on
You are not giving new info.
Please cease.
Thanks
(Edited)
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Jeorj Euler

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I feel this thread trending in the direction of being a general philosophy topic. We may wind up covering psychology, geography, history, physiology, climatology, spirituality and metaphysics, all too arrive at a revealing agreement to disagree, multiple times. We will see.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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You left out Re-in-Carnation Evaporated Milk.
The Theory of Relativity.
The Big "Bang" Theory.
Dating.
Parenting.
Macro-biology
Warp Theory.
Ginger or Mary Ann
And lastly this.............

Annie Savoy : What do you believe in, then?

Crash Davis : Well, I believe in the soul, the c***, the p****, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, s***-c*** p**********, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.




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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Jeorj Euler if anything it proves that life is never simple and everything is interconnected. 
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Emma Arpin

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This topic has been widely reported in the press at this point, and IMDb has yet to provide a response with substance. The only response so far from IMDb was a generic, short policy statement.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/imdb-harms-transgender-actor-actress-birth-name-lgbt-1202055599/

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Kati Knitt

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@Emma: Their statement sounds a lot like the mails I got when I tried to contact IMDb, they have zero self awareness or interest in changing anything. They don’t really see a problem here at all.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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They are 100% aware that .6% is not a problem
They are 100% aware that the problem is psychosomatic.
When are you going to realize that if you chose to do "Anything" that there is going to be cause and effect in play. You can't ask anyone to protect you from a situation you chose and selected.
You can type all you want here and there. But you are changing ZERO.
Repeat..............you are changing zero.

Further replies should be considered inflammatory and categorized as spam.
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Jeorj Euler

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IMDb strives to represent an individual’s gender identity while also accurately reflecting cast and crew listings as they appear in a production’s on-screen credits at the time of original release.
The above statement is substance enough. People who do not like it would be wise to make every effort to get over it and also get used to the fundamental properties of the concept of publication.
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Kati Knitt

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Nope. Misgendering still hurts people and is inhumane.
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Jeorj Euler

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How is it inhumane that nobody can escape his or her published record? The same applies to everybody except for autocrats with the power to create a safe space that extends tens of thousands of square miles.
(Edited)