Hallmark Hall of Fame - episodes are all listed as TV movies

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Question: Before I start correcting a lot of stuff, is there a special reason why the following is the way it is?

This "anthology" program has an entry as a TV series here: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044266/

However, its episodes (except for 1) are all entered as TV movies. E.g.: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215807 or https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0595286

This would seem to be wrong, or am I overlooking something here?


Reliable source of information: http://ctva.biz/US/Anthology/Hallmark/HallOfFame.htm

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Uberhamster

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Posted 2 months ago

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Jaime, Employee

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Hello,

Thank you for your post.

If they originally aired theatrically they should be left as standalone titles and shell episodes should be made as their place in the correct order in the series.

If they originally aired as episodes of the series then these should be merged into the parent series.

I hope this helps!
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Uberhamster

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Not that I can see anywhere. I guess this needs correcting then; I've no idea why they're all entered wrong. ???
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gromit82, Champion

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Jaime: For clarification, "Hallmark Hall of Fame" is an umbrella title for TV movies. I don't think any of the movies that aired under that title were meant for theatrical release. There have been TV movies shown under the "Hallmark Hall of Fame" banner since 1951, but they don't have continuing characters or plots from one to the next, and they are scheduled irregularly a few times a year, not in a regular time slot. See https://www.hallmarkchannel.com/hallmark-hall-of-fame/movies and https://www.hallmarkchannel.com/hallmark-hall-of-fame/about.

I know IMDb used to have a principle that said "If it can be treated as a series, it should be," and if that still applies, then indeed the movies should be placed under the umbrella series as episodes.

I suspect that the movies are not currently entered as episodes because many viewers didn't perceive them as being part of a series, seeing the "Hallmark Hall of Fame" as only a sponsorship designation and not something that would be classified as a TV series.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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gromit82....
Being an "old guy", I can confirm that they are NOT a series by definition and should have no episodes whatsoever.
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Uberhamster

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gromit82 - So do all anthology series, let's say that The Twilight Zone is the most famous, probably. But there were many, many others like that, especially in the past, and they're still considered series.

Ed Jones - Well, maybe later on, in the seventies. But have you looked at link I gave? Here's for example the details for season 1: http://ctva.biz/US/Anthology/Hallmark/HallOfFame_01_(1951-52).htm

It was a weekly thing then, with 39 episodes that year. So I am still leaning to throwing at least the episodes from those days under the series heading.

On the bright side: perhaps this means that you are not quite that old yet. :)

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I can confirm that they are NOT a series by definition and should have no episodes whatsoever.
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Uberhamster

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Ed Jones(49), ctva.biz is generally reliable. How do you explain the information in the link I gave? Are you sure you haven't got something else in mind?
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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ctva.biz is generally reliable.
.
Whats reliable now?
The National Enquirer?
Geez.
Last time NOT AN EPISODIC TV Series
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Uberhamster

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If you have installments going out 6, 13, 20, and 27 of January 1952, and so on the next months, that sure sounds like a series to me.
Or what... that website's making it all up then, are they?

OK, how about this one then? http://lantern.mediahist.org/catalog/swing8151whbb_0462

Or this? http://lantern.mediahist.org/catalog/broadcastingtele43unse_0088

Or should I instead trust some random guy, single qualification being that he's old, who doesn't even bother to check these links or come up with any evidence?

Okay boomer...

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/television-series

Television series means a group of programs created or adapted for television broadcast with a common series title, usually related to one another in subject.


Now, you all have come up with "YOUR OPINIONS"

I USE FACT gleaned from my knowledge, and not believing in gossip and hearsay when presented.

This ....https://www.lawinsider.com/documents/8zwZjZ3BnBP#television-series


2.20. "Television series" means a group of programs created or adapted for television broadcast with a common series title, usually related to one another in subject.



This discussion has happened before.

See this.......ZERO EPISODES.....
A recurring weekly program. A TV Series


What's the difference you ask?
They showed "UNRELATED MOVIES" from the same Company Fox or Universal or whoever they had a contract with.

Just because Hallmark is making them in house does not make it a series with episodes. Episodic TV requires reoccurring characters or theme.

Now if you all want to ignore West Virginia's definition and IMDb's own omission of the titles as episodes for the title above, then you all need to go back to school and PAY ATTENTION in English class.

Now you may choose to find lesser credible sources to debunk this, but the term "LESSER CREDIBLE" means just that

Less credible.
I rest my case!
Will no longer reply to nonsensical postings here.

As far as your Twilight Zone example by the way...they had a theme...Tales of the bizarre.
Every week that same theme was ALWAYS used.
(Edited)
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Uberhamster

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It's called an anthology series. Note the last word.
The fifties and sixties were full of them. Some are still made today (Black mirror).
Want examples? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthology_series#American_drama

And this is the important part, ALL of the examples in that link are listed on the IMDb in the series format. All, except for one...

Your example is a program showing existing theatrical movies. So, that's no good is it? There is nothing theatrical about the Hallmark Hall of Fame and they weren't pre-existing either.
You might as well point to a dead badger lying by the side of the road and say, "Aha! But THAT isn't a series either!". It'd be equally persuasive.

By the way, "usually" does not mean "exclusively", so if that "evidence" was the best that you could find...
Also: Anthology episodes ARE related, namely by genre. Outer Limits were SF stories, Hitchcock Presents was crime, others were highbrow literary adaptations, etcetera.

Normally I assume everyone is at least trying to help. But... If you did NOT know this, then your advice isn't going to be very useful, so maybe you ought to leave this to others.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Look.
Pay attention to your own example.
Hallmark movies are about "Unrelated" topics covering a wide array of subject matter.
They have zero in common.
Pay attention.
Pay attention.
Comprehend.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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You've lost your argument here.
No amount of words are going to change facts.
Move along
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Uberhamster

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Oh? I thought you said you weren't going to reply anymore? I was looking forward to your absence actually.

Look at an actual episode. Just look at it. Just once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-FGxKPeRQI
You're trying to tell me that that is a 25 minute "movie"? Then you've probably never even watched a single episode of Hallmark or Studio One or any other highbrowish anthology. All the drama anthology series were like this. Mix between literature, history, classic and new drama...

It's obvious as soon as you do the bare minimum of research. Studio One for example: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040051/
That's just one example of many. Should that be broken up then, and all the episodes made into independent movies?

Because it has to be done consistently. It's the one or the other for all of them. Huh, Alcoa Premiere or Four Star Playhouse are even less coherent, alternating light comedy with variety and social realism. Should it all be split up because you can't see enough similarities? What's your answer to that then?


I posted links to actual stuff. All you came up with is some totally unrelated website with a general definition of terms in a legal context. I've seen your bio. So you do impersonations, do you? Could you stop impersonating a pedant then? And I've seen your complaints against anyone else who disagrees with you. I bet you're the type who'd report me for alleged vandalism if I edited the pages.

Neither of us was watching TV in the 50s. You have no unique knowledge and it doesn't look like you've taken the time to actually check a few examples. Go disrupt someone else's question please.






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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Neither of us was watching TV in the 50s.
Maybe you. But I was.
Pay attention.
Pay attention.
Comprehend.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Look. You already know that doing this is wrong. This topic proves it.

Add Episodes for vintage Movie Serials

This idea topic of yours from 4 years ago basically has gone NOWHERE.
So now your pushing this same cockamamie "IDEA" again "Disguised" as a "QUESTION". Except your back-dooring it by now wanting to "mess up" the database with your ideas on the same topic but now attacking the integrity of the TV section.

You think I would not read your "Profile"?
You could not get traction on  your idea, so now what?
Pose this disguised topic!
Please!

You wanna post this "IDEA" to your 4 year old "NO LEGS" lame idea go ahead.
But don't rehash your rejected "IDEA" as a fresh take.


Note to IMDb Staff

PLEASE MERGE to:
Add Episodes for vintage Movie Serials


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Uberhamster

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And that proves what exactly?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Proves your sneaky and you won't take no for an answer.
(Edited)
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Uberhamster

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Ed Jones, a "serial" was a theatrical release. It's got nothing to do with stuff produced for television. So... two different things then.

And you haven't answered my previous question... because you've got no answer.


Arguments, evidence, sources, logic. That's the stuff we need. Not "because I say so" nonsense.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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No need to.
IMDb has been doing things this way for years.
It is ongoing.
That is your "Arguments, evidence, sources, and logic."
IMDb does not SAY SO
IMDb has been DOING SO. FOR YEARS.

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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People come in here and change things.
They get caught.
The database is corrected.
The contributor is banned.
If you think your correct, risk it.
YOU are the prosecution.
The burden of proof is on you.
You have provided your OUTSIDE sources.
I have provided IMDb sourced internal sources.
The internal sources at IMDb you provided proved my position, not yours.

You have lost the argument.
Move along.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Note to IMDb Staff

PLEASE MERGE to:
Add Episodes for vintage Movie Serials
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Uberhamster

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Please answer the question. We need to be consistent. What to do with Studio One, and all the other anthology series that have relatively different episodes?
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gromit82, Champion

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Ed: I don't see the point in merging the two threads. The other one is about movie serials (for which it's not possible to create episodes, although it might be desirable to do so). This one is about a television program which according to some should be classified as a TV series and according to others should be classified as unrelated TV movies.

In fact, the movie serial discussion would require changes to the IMDb software to implement that idea. But this "Hallmark Hall of Fame" requires only an interpretation of IMDb policy. There are no software problems with either Uberhamster's point of view or your point of view. It's just a matter of deciding what SHOULD be done.

These are two different discussions and I would not want them to be merged.
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Uberhamster

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THANK YOU.
THIS is how it should be approached.
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Uberhamster

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Note to IMDb Staff

Please ignore what Ed Jones(XLIX) suggested about merging. He is not distinguishing here between old-time movie serials (that's THEATRICAL) and programs produced for TELEVISION.

Note to IMDb Staff
I find the comments of Ed Jones(XLIX) very unhelpful since he is not offering much to go on (no sources of information, no solid rules, no similar cases, that sort of thing). Above, he's trying to get this topic merged with one that is about a completely different format. This isn't helping. Can you please tell him to restrict himself to facts and not start personal vendettas?
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Hallmark does not call these by episode number.
https://www.hallmarkmoviesandmysteries.com/christmas-on-my-mind

Amazon does not either. No episodes....And these are submitted by Hallmark. It parrots what's on IMDb. You want your opinion to prevail based on the provided opinions of outside sources. But you chose to leave out Hallmark itself. Yes Hallmark has series. But you want the standalone movies included in this. They have no "Seasons" nor do the have "Episode" numbers on their own website.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hallmark+movies+prime&crid=1D2XKIVSGX6X6&sprefix=hallmark+movies%...




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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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gromit82.
Saw your reply.
Not ignoring you.
Respect your input.
Thanks.
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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[ Wikipedia ]

Hallmark Hall of Fame, originally called Hallmark Television Playhouse, is an anthology program on American television.

No. of Seasons: 68
No. of Episodes: 258

List of Hallmark Hall of Fame episodes

Official Website
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Wikipedia is an untrusted source by IMDb. The submissions are not vetted for accuracy and are an interpretation only. Non-factual.
Your Official Website is the same website I cited above.
https://www.hallmarkchannel.com/hallmark-hall-of-fame


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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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"Wikipedia is an untrusted source by IMDb."

Lol, who said?
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ACT_1

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BONAFIDE BOSS
  
Anyone can add data to Wikipedia
so some data may not be accurate
  
Hmmm... Kind like that Movie Database site
.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Every single IMDb staff member including Col Needham.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Bone Boss
Your just here to argue with me....Not help.
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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 Ed Bones, YOU replied to my comment.
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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Tbh, I don't know.

The official site itself is not sure whether they're films or a series, lmao.

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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A series WITHOUT episode numbers.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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It is NOT episodic television.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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gromit82
Was thinking on this.
This really should be an idea thread.
Merging is incorrect as you state.
While the same idea is at play.
One is for Movie Serials getting episodes where there are none.
The other is for TV Movies getting episodes where there are none.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Notice:
Not one of you has made your point.
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Uberhamster

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Some facts:
  • Unlike wikipedia, ctva.biz is a reliable site that was made by selected editors.
  • The editors researched these titles in the LoC and other places - they had to, there was no other online info yet back then.
  • They're even listed by name - we could potentially contact the writer of this particular title.

  • In 1952 HHOF had epi... installments every week.
  • They lasted 25 minutes each.
  • The only other 25 minute TV movies are unsuccesful pilots for series.
  • The programs are historical in theme, call it costume drama.
  • Another similarity is the actors; e.g. Sarah Churchill appears in most of the early episodes.

  • The IMDb has to be consistent.
  • The series operated on exactly the same principle as Studio One and dozens of other anthology series of the 50s/60s.

Now, after season 4, THEN it starts slowing down, with fewer, but much longer episodes. So there it's getting closer to a set of TV movies. E.g.: https://archive.org/details/HallmarkHallOfFameTheLark
So post 1956 it's debatable - although they're still firmly in the same genres and themes.


The episode layer of the IMDb was introduced in 2006 I believe... it's time to accept it and move on. Posting lots of comments about it is not a good sign.


(Edited)
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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@Uberhamster

It's a movie.

I've confirmed it with the official team directly on Facebook.


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Uberhamster

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Not sure if that reply's worth much. Note that they didn't even say movieS plural, just "It's a movie". Sure, what they produce today is one or two movies a year.

The person doing support is probably not aware of the 1952 TV schedules. They just give you the simplest answer, that's how it works on customer service.

I hear Hallmark doesn't even own the rights to the early years, although that's just from wikipedia.

No sorry, we can't really count this as definitive.

Right now I'm thinking, 1952-1955 is a series (with weekly 25 minute episodes), but everything from November 1955 onwards until today is TV movie (a few a year with feature length).
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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1952 - 1955 are Teleplays.

https://www.indiewire.com/2009/12/criterions-the-golden-age-of-television-223593/

This new Criterion set features some of the great teleplays of the 1950s, many of which would go on to be legendary feature films, such as Marty and Days of Wine and Roses. Or, you have something like Requiem for a Heavyweight, which is Rod Serling’s famous pre-Twilight Zone portrait of a broken boxer (Jack Palance stars in a role that inspired everything from Raging Bull to The Wrestler).




These original broadcasts, though, are theater... and in some ways more vital and electric. As described by Criterion, “The hugely popular live American television plays of the 1950s have become the stuff of legend. Combining elements of theater, radio, and film making, they were produced at a moment when TV technology was advancing and making art accessible to a newly suburban postwar demographic. These astonishingly choreographed, brilliantly acted, and socially progressive ‘teleplays’ constituted an artistic high for the medium, bringing Broadway-quality drama to homes across the country.”


A teleplay is a script used in the production of a scripted television program. In general usage, the term is most commonly seen in reference to a standalone production, such as a television film, or a television play.

Now you may find other descriptions that add the word "Series" into the description. But "Series" is not always "Episodic."

Bottom line is that these never had episode numbering attached at the time of production. If you look at I Love Lucy which was produced in that same era it HAS episode numbers. They were identified with them by the production company at the time.

IMDb will want irrefutable prima facia evidence.
Not My saying no, nor Your saying yes.
This evidence must come from the horses mouth....so to speak.
That is from Hallmark themselves. Not wiki. Not anyone else.
We are not talking about an entity that no longer exists. Hallmark exists.
Now you have been given an answer directly from that horses mouth and you chose to extrapolate a reason why to "IGNORE" it.
My My.
Every single thing points to what I have alluded to all along.
There are no episode numbers and there is no reputable source that says otherwise.

Sorry to all of you for all your work to prove me wrong.
I know that I am irritating and annoying, but I would not be here saying these things if I even was remotely unsure of what I have presented.

My only goal is the accuracy of the database.

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1. You refer to indiewire, and then you combine that with a definition. Question: What is the source for that definition?
It looks almost like Wikipedia, except that there it says:
A teleplay is a screenplay or script used in the production of a scripted television program or series. In general usage, the term is most commonly seen in reference to a standalone production, such as a television film, a television play or an episode of an anthology series;
Note the last bit.

2. A series is not always episodic? Then what does a series consist of? Parts, installments? That's just different words. But OK, forget that for now.

3. I love Lucy is not an anthology series so that doesn't really compare. Anyway, numbering? What numbering? Internal, on screen, announced? How can we know, unless we consult all internal correspondence from the 1950s? And does it matter?
Also, anyone who's ever spoken to any helpdesk knows that the first line doesn't know very much and that they'll try the easiest answer first. A follow-up question would have been much better but that would probably have stumped the guy on duty. Why not contact the author of the ctva list?

4. And this is the crucial point that has not been answered yet. The article you quote mentions as "teleplays" Requiem for a heavyweight and Days of wine and roses. But that's from Playhouse 90. Follow the link, it currently has episodes. Marty is from Philco Television Playhouse, that's also fully episodic on the IMDb. So anything you say about "teleplays" applies to those two anthology series too, and to all others.
In fact indiewire doesn't even mention Hallmark specifically.

It seems very far reaching to propose that all non-continuous series should devolve into thousands of mini tv movies. (I still suspect that you're the same person who hated the idea of episodes years ago, and has never stopped hating them, even though it's been almost 15 years since they were introduced.)

ACCURACY STARTS WITH CONSISTENCY. YOU STILL HAVE NOT ADRESSED THIS. DO YOU MEAN THAT THOSE OTHER ANTHOLOGIES SHOULD ALL BE SPLIT UP TOO? Because that is what your last post seems to amount to.
I just don't expect that a massive change like that is going to happen.

I suppose you're either going to be uncivil again, or find a convoluted reason why Hallmark (ONLY 1952-1955) is for some unprovable reason different. Well, surprise me.

Also: you're a joke. You're funny. You're being all condescending, while you post the most crappy, forced, far-fetched "logical" arguments that anyone could possibly find. Everyone turned down your merge topics request. It would be nasty and sad, if it weren't so hilariously misplaced.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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IMDb goes off of data supplied by "TRUSTED" sources.
Find one of those trusted sources.
Until then Type Type Type a lot of nothings.
Find an IMDb accepted source and they will consider your contribution.
Stop typing.
Make a contribution with what you consider "TRUSTED".
I'll give you a trusted source. An old newspaper article from the 1950s that has an article stating something like this in the entertainment section. Tonight's premiere of Season 2 Episode 1 of Hallmark's blah blah blah. You know the drill. A REAL honest to god archived newspaper article. Research a large library like L.A. Chicago. Detroit NYC Atlanta or even a small town like Burlington, Vt for cryin out loud. Just do due diligence. Don't do it the lazy way. The internet is self perpetuating. One misstatement is repeated over and over from cite to cite. Find HARD evidence of ACTUAL season and episode numbers that are referred to.
Submit it and see how it goes.
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Uberhamster

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Please clarify - are you now questioning the data itself on ctva? Why have you not brought this up before?
But I don't see why this should be in doubt. All of the titles and airdates are already listed on the IMDb, only as TV movies.

Other documents were also given, you can find some via lantern like this one: https://archive.org/stream/broadcastingtele43unse_0#page/n79/mode/2up/search/hallmark

Take for example one of the titles: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0595295/
This is a title that happens to be online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-FGxKPeRQI

So far, 1) it exists and 2) it's 25 minutes long - just like that document I just linked to also proves.

A season of forty or more "TV movies" that air every week in a half-hour slot. And they're all about historical biographies, made by the same writers and directors and often with the same actors.
What then is the difference with any other anthology series?

As said before, after 1955 it's different.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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The original topic is the later Hallmark titles.
Shall we focus please.
We got sidetracked.
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Uberhamster

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It is my topic and I say it's about the 1952-1955 series.
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Uberhamster

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Note to IMDb Staff

The arguments in this thread are going in circles (I fear that that's partly a deliberate strategy by some).

This ONLY concerns a question of category. I submit that in the years 1952-1955 "Hallmark hall of fame" was in every respect an anthology series. Episode length (half hour), overall subjects, weekly appearance.

It all fits the same description & properties that all the other "golden age of television" anthology series have too.

So the episodes that are currently TV movies should be converted into episodes. Please continue processing the changes that were already submitted.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Look. If you cannot see it for what it is, I do not understand how you can be so trusting of this site.

Please note the sources cited. One of them IS THE IMDb. Which HAS NO FULL data for the early telecasts of Hallmark.. They are not willing to make a statement that just 4 airings from that season are listed how can you trust them regarding what data came from where. Also there are no direct links so as to verify anything they say is fact. This is the same reason why IMDb takes nothing from Wikipedia but will take direct info from the referenced source contain in the article.

Where are the direct links? They are non existent.
http://ctva.biz/US/Anthology/Hallmark/HallOfFame_01_(1951-52).htm

Now I'm not saying that this isn't a great reference site.
But it's methods are not transparent. IMDb looks for these things.
What they look for is absent.
The assignment of seasons and episode numbers may have been a decision on the websites makers. And not that of the production company and/or NBC.
You cannot verify the source material.
(Edited)
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Uberhamster

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I REPEAT: the titles are already listed on the IMDb as TV movies.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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And that is what they should remain as
(Edited)
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Uberhamster

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Said the person who ran out of arguments years ago. (OOI, LoC, UCLA... does that mean anything to you?)

You still here then? Too bad for you that the staff has weighed the arguments and has decided otherwise.

"Sit on it."
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Uberhamster

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If you feel that a mistake has been made, you can submit a correction.

Well, provided you have the proper sources for it, that is. (No shady websites please.)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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