Genres for titles should be manually sortable

  • 5
  • Idea
  • Updated 5 months ago

Please allow the genres for titles to be manually sortable rather than alphabetized by default so they can be prioritized by the ones which are most predominant.  Most users will assume that's how they are prioritized anyway and also won't notice the full list of genres below "Taglines", thus often missing the predominant ones that should be included at the top (below the title & year).

Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes

Posted 7 months ago

  • 5
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 23311 Posts
  • 27776 Reply Likes
Would be nice.
But unimplementable I'm afraid.
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes
Why would it be unimplementable?  B/c of a technical obstacle or b/c the ordering is too subjective?
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 23311 Posts
  • 27776 Reply Likes
This topic has been brought up several times.
This has never been implemented.
They have been in Alphabetical order since forever.
They have redesigned the site numerous times, but have chosen to keep it the way it is.
Unimplementable by choice or stubbornness. Who knows.
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes

Ok, gotcha.  I did do a search for it before posting the idea and was surprised that nothing came up in the results.

There is the obvious subjectivity factor, but the way it's now sorted alphabetically the most accurate, predominant genres will often end up at the end of the list and then not even display in the first 3 included at the top.  And those will always be the ones that come later in the alphabet: IMDb Help Center: Genres.  B/c of this there will be many more films inaccurately labeled as primarily Comedy, Crime, or Action within their respective genres than Thriller, War, or Western.

To resolve this they could include a voting pop-up window w/ a button to the right of the "Genres" section (below "Taglines", similar to how they do for rating the title), with individual voting buttons next to each proposed genre to determine priority if the subjectivity is problematic.  Then the sorting could be automated.


(Edited)
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 23311 Posts
  • 27776 Reply Likes
Good Idea Voting for Genres.
But again it will never be implemented.
Requires a software subroutine that would have to communicate to several platforms and be written for each platform.
As it goes on the 'Family Feud'...............XXX!
Sounds easy when you say it. But IMDb has an operating system for Desktop/Laptops, Android, I Phone/Pads, and others I believe.
Too much work I'm afraid.
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes
I see.  Indeed a technical obstacle then...
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 23311 Posts
  • 27776 Reply Likes
Most definitely.
:):)
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes
I'm wondering if it would really be too much work though if implementing this method would save IMDb staff from having to review every genre submission/correction?  For ex, see this post here (to which you responded): Genre mismanagement 

Along with allowing genres to be manually sortable (or auto-sorted after the initial submission by up/down votes), if users could enter them without requiring IMDb approval, the automated voting system would determine which are most relevant by the user-base (based on the site's genre guide I linked above), and the genres that received too many down votes could be removed.  It seems this would end up saving a lot of work in the long run, for both the staff and the users who would otherwise make a lot of submissions.  Of course genres could still be reported to IMDb staff thru the existing system in cases where intervention is needed.
(Edited)
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1674 Posts
  • 2128 Reply Likes
if users could enter them without requiring IMDb approval, the automated voting system would determine which are most relevant by the user-base (based on the site's genre guide I linked above), and the genres that received too many down votes could be removed.

This is a bad idea. Genres are defined by IMDb (as you can see here: https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/genres/GZDRMS6R742JRGAG?ref_=helpms_helpart_inline#). Currently, staffers check genre submissions and even with this current system, mistakes are made every now and again. If such a system where to be abandoned, a whole can of worms will be opened because some people have their own definitions of certain genres and add them to the wrong titles.
About the removal of genres because they have a certain number of down-votes: A genre should be removed from a title if IMDb's definition of the genre isn't applicable to said title. The number of down-votes (or up-votes for that matter) should be totally irrelevant.

(Edited)
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7467 Posts
  • 9898 Reply Likes
Somewhere on the forum, I speculated on the merits of a genre inheritance system for the sake of consistency, that movies should be able to belong the same genre as much older movies that are similar enough simply on account of the similarity, thus leaving genres to be somewhat defined by their pioneering constituent parts.
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1674 Posts
  • 2128 Reply Likes
that movies should be able to belong the same genre as much older movies that are similar enough simply on account of the similarity, thus leaving genres to be somewhat defined by their pioneering constituent parts.

I don't really see the point of this and I do see the possibility of a lot of subjectivity entering the genres. Well, (even) more subjectivity than we currently already have in this section I mean. :)
(Edited)
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7467 Posts
  • 9898 Reply Likes
Subjectivity is what we already have.
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1674 Posts
  • 2128 Reply Likes
I agree, that's why I said "(even) more subjectivity" than we already have. I don't want to add any more subjectivity to that.
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7467 Posts
  • 9898 Reply Likes
There is no guarantee that it would be more subjective. Perhaps it depends upon the details of the "plan". The object would be consistency. How can that, at face value, automatically constitute being more subjective?
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1674 Posts
  • 2128 Reply Likes
The object would be consistency.

Well, that's what the object of the current genres and their definitions is as well. I don't really see what your idea adds to what we already have. I only see the (possible) problem of (even) more subjectivity.
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7467 Posts
  • 9898 Reply Likes
Several of the genres recognized by the IMDb system are considered subjective in the IMDb guidelines. A way ought to be found to move away from that.
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes
@Marco:  Yes, that's the genre guide I was referring to that I linked above.  You probably have to click the "View previous..." link a couple times to see that comment if it's hidden/collapsed.  See my 2nd reply to Ed that starts with "Ok, gotcha."

Down-voting to remove was a suggestion to be considered only if the subjectivity of manual sorting was too problematic.  I do not wish to increase subjectivity.  I realize that both the lack of knowledge of genres and individual interpretation of them amongst voters would be issues.  I also agree that it's much more important for a genre to "be removed from a title if IMDb's definition of the genre isn't applicable to said title" than the number of down-votes, but how is IMDb staff supposed to accurately check and label genres for all titles w/out watching each one?  This seems an impossible feat.

Ed stated above that manual sorting would not be implemented for the main reason that it's too much work.  So I was trying to come up with a way to save the staff time in exchange for that which would be required for implementation, b/c there has to be a better way to represent the films' genres than the current alphabetical sorting, especially when most users will probably assume they're ordered by relevance.

I don't agree with abandoning the current system, but perhaps combining the two would make it easier for the staff and provide better genre ordering and accuracy for more films more quickly.  Votes should be cast on whether the proposed genre meets the criteria of IMDb's definition, they should not supersede staff decisions, and they would apply only to films/genres that have not been reviewed and approved by the staff.  Staff could override votes and "lock" genres so users could no longer cast votes on those genres which have already been approved by IMDb staff.
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes
I submitted my comment once, but it posted a duplicate.  If I try to remove or edit the 2nd one, a red bar appears across the top of the page with no visible error message.  It will not let me do either and I've tried on 2 different computers & browsers.  However, I was able to edit this message.  Therefore, I assume it has to do with the length of the comment.  I reported the glitch to IMDd support.
(Edited)
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 23311 Posts
  • 27776 Reply Likes
Allowing voting on genres would result in the uninformed voting on genres.
There are those in any society that don't have the tools necessary to make an informed decision about anything. So decisions should be left up to those that have a grasp on the concept of genres. This is exactly why IMDb retains the final say. IMDb does on occasion "lock" genres when those that are uninformed continue to incorrectly submit a genre to a title and the "informed" submit removals. When this happens, IMDb staff will lock the genres. I have been involved in only one of these.
It was on an Indian Title, about that countries first space mission to Mars. A REAL space mission, not a fictional mission. A contributor argued that ANY movie that takes place in space MUST be Sci-Fi! He could not be made to understand the difference between Science-Fact and Science-Fiction. And your suggesting that he be allowed to vote? How many people are there out there that cannot grab this simple differentiation?
No......Allowing genre voting is a bad idea I'm afraid.

But ordering them based on the percentage of application to the related storyline is a very good idea. It is how you'd do it that is still not addressed. Voting won't work as described. You could not trust the voting sample.
I'd propose a trusted contributor system for genre ordering. Anyone with 20 years membership at IMDb would work. And if you wondering, that leaves me out of the voting equation. I've only been a user here for 17 or so years, but registered only 8 years.
Photo of Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin)

Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

  • 3732 Posts
  • 5172 Reply Likes
shape5, it's a persistent glitch that happens rather often. I removed a duplicate. 
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes

@Ed Jones(XLIX):  Well, the Flat Earth Theory certainly wouldn't help in the case of your example, b/c anyone who believed it would have to agree that any film that involved space travel or portrayed the Earth as round would be science fiction...heheh.  There wouldn't be a way to prevent people like this from voting unless they made too many mistakes, and then their privileges could be revoked.  But such cases are a minority and therefore wouldn't affect the outcome unless more than 50% of voters voted up for Sci-Fi in that instance.  It would seem that more than 50% of members who are interested enough in a given film to want to vote on its genres would be able to do so in accordance with IMDb's genre definitions, especially if there was a note at the top of the voting section w/ a link to that Help page.  Either way, the end result would still allow staff to have the final say.

Sure, if staff/moderators and 20+ year members had the ability to view nearly all submitted films then it would be ideal, but I doubt that would round up enough people to make the system work.  The "how" part should be left for IMDb staff to figure out since they have the first-hand experience and knowledge from overseeing how the current system works.  Perhaps voting privileges could be included with a Pro membership and also granted to members who have contributed x amount of approved data, possibly adding weight from community forum activity/rank.  The amount of contributed data and forum participation being determining factors probably makes more sense than the amount of time since registering, b/c length of membership alone doesn't correlate to level of contribution, experience, dedication, interest, oversight, or knowledge.

IMDb could also allow members who submit a new film to the database to select the initial genre ordering, regardless of their voting status.  This alone would improve upon the default alphabetical sorting.

(Edited)
Photo of Peter

Peter, Champion

  • 8249 Posts
  • 10758 Reply Likes
Here is another post about this from last week:

https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...
Photo of shape5

shape5

  • 37 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes
Thanks – that didn't come up in my search results.  I just posted a reply to that one and voted for it.