Episode order contradictions

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There's a few documentaries and factual reality shows I've stumbled across recently, which don't exist on IMDB yet.

I haven't attempted to get them added yet, as their episode orders on the websites for the networks they were broadcast on, are different to every other website that mentions them, that includes big names like The Radio Times, Apple TV and IMDB's owner Amazon.

It doesn't really matter which order the episodes for these documentaries and factual reality shows go in, as they don't have a storyline, as they're documentaries about real people, and factual reality shows where they follow normal people about with a camera.

Who should I believe? The networks themselves, or the bigger websites which are supposed to be accurate, yet have them listed in a different order?
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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Posted 2 months ago

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Phil G

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IMDb policy is to always order episodes according to the date of their first broadcast. The creators' intentions, or anyone else's interpretation of a logical or 'correct' order makes no difference to it. You might want to check the guidelines, in particular the last point of section A.
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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I would have said the same, but since they were taken over by Immediate Media who in 2017 were taken over by Hubert Burda Media I've noticed a lot of pages about shows which are practically blank with hardly any information, and occasional mistakes.

For example, a few months ago I noticed a mini story over 2 episodes, which is part of a long running detective drama TV series, was listed on the Radio Times as a single episode.

It wasn't a single episode. It was two separate episodes broadcast at separate times, with part 1 and part 2 as subtitles to the overall story title, for example The Beach: Part 1 and The Beach: Part 2.

This 2008 unrelated crime show which I'm researching right now, which has each episode split into 5 segments of different stories, has episode titles which use some, or all of the mini titles like:

Episode 1 - John, Paul, George, Ringo, Pete
Episode 1 - John | Paul | George | Ringo | Pete
Episode 1 - John: Paul: George: Ringo
Episode 1 - Ringo, Paul, John and more
Episode 1 - Pete, George and more

Etc so they're all similar, but not exactly the same.

The same goes for the overall title for the show, as most of them use the same name for example The Beatles but some would then have a subtitle added like The Beatles: On Tour, The Beatles: Musical Madness, On Tour With: The Beatles 

Etc so again, they're all similar, but not exactly the same.

If I can't figure out who the original broadcasters of that crime series are, I'll probably just use the main title that they all use, and add the others as alternativeswith all 5 mini titles for each episode used for each of the 13 episodes. 
(Edited)
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bderoes, Champion

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IMDb does not have a mechanism for alternate titles for episodes, but that can be a trivia item.
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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I know that which is why I will be adding all 65 mini titles to the 13 episodes.

1 TV series = At least 3 different titles.
13 episodes in total = Countless variations of the 65 mini titles.
Therefore...
1 episode = All 5 mini titles 
as 1 big episode title.
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bderoes, Champion

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It sounds like you're saying if an episode has 5 title variants, you're going to concatenate them together. That makes me wince,.
Ex: Your momma / Your mama / You're momma / Ur mama / Yo, moma
would be awful.
On the other hand, I have seen some I like (translations mostly), but I don't think it adheres to IMDb policy. (I'm not going to search for that now.)
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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No. Like I've said multiple times.
Each episode has 5 stories.
Therefore...
Each episode has 5 mini titles.

Some websites use all 5 mini titles as 1 big episode title.

While other websites just use some of the mini titles as a medium sized episode title.
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Eboy

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With original air dates, places like library and archives are always a good place to find info. Simply from the TV listings, magazines and even newspapers.

But of course in these cases there should be at least a rough estimate when the first episode aired, which channel etc. If you find one episode, you probably find the rest.
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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Post 1 of 2 - Now the following is all the information for the 13 episode documentary series with multiple names, with each episode split into 5 sections with different titles, which I think was a web series, with the episode order in the order I suspected, and the company I suspected was the correct one, I'm pretty certain is the correct one, from all the named ones. However it's still quite confusing, even with the credits, and company names.

https://www.amazon.com/Crime-Inc/dp/B00HJ1B90I Title Crime Inc - Episodes 13x25mins - Released 20th April 2008 - Director Chip Taylor - Year 2008 - Network Chip Taylor Communications - Prime Video - Has still images from show.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crime-Inc/dp/B01FV1EAD0 & https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FV1EAD0 Title Crime Inc - Episodes 13x25mins - Released 20th April 2008 - Director Chip Taylor - Year 2008 - Network Chip Taylor Communications - Prime Video - Has prison cell images with the logo of Janson Media

https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B01FV0U5P8 Title Crime Inc - Episodes 13x25mins - Released 20th April 2008 - Director Janson Media - Year 2008 - Network Janson Media - Prime Video - Has prison cell images with the logo of Janson Media

https://www.primevideo.com/detail/Crime-Inc/0HG3IXOWUMGE94JK4P5MCPXW1T This US version also has prison cell images with logo of Janson Media

 https://www.amazon.com/Crimes-Times-Crime-Inc-Season/dp/B00KS0F55M Title Crimes of the Times: Crime Inc - Episodes 13x25mins - Released 1st May 2008 - Director Switch International - Year 2008 - Network Film Ideas Inc - Prime Video - Different still images from show plus a title image

https://www.janson.com/ Janson Media's website - Nothing about the show

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc_53-Ev85K8B86f8wbWwXA Janson Media's Youtube channel - Nothing about the show

https://tbivision.com/2018/05/24/flame-inks-factual-deal-with-amazon-via-janson-media-partnership/ A little story about a company called Flame who made a deal with Amazon through Janson Media

https://www.chiptaylor.com/crime_inc.html Chip Taylor Communications website - Title Crime Inc - Episodes 13x30mins - Year 2015 - Produced by Switch International

http://www.switchint.com/ourprogrammes/preview.asp?v=ossovupo Switch International's website - Title Crime Inc - Episodes 13x30mins

http://www.switchint.com/documents/crimeinccompletesynopsis.pdf Switch International's website - Title Crime Inc - Description for each segment in each of the 13 episodes. The PDF is for a company called World Wide Entertainment even though it's on Switch International's website.

http://www.switchint.com/documents/CrimeInccompleteshortsyonpsis.pdf Switch International's website - Title Crime Inc - Mini titles for each segment in each of the 13 episodes. There's 65 segments in total. The PDF is for a company called World Wide Entertainment even though it's on Switch International's website.

http://www.switchint.com/documents/crimeInc_flyer_final.pdf Switch International's website - Title Crime Inc - Little description of the show in general. It also has an address for the Australian company World Wide Entertainment. The PDF is for a company called World Wide Entertainment even though it's on Switch International's website.

https://www.prensario.net/2977-Global-Agency-acquires-World-Wide-Entertainment.note.aspx Story about Global Agency taking over the Australian company World Wide Entertainment who will now be called Switch International from the 15th September 2012 onwards.

https://www.itn.co.uk/press-releases/world-wide-entertainment-and-itn-productions-to-launch-world-wide-icons-a-miptv/ Story from either 2012 or 2013 about the distribution company World Wide Entertainment who are owned by a company called Global Agency, co-producing their first ever series with the ITV owned ITN

https://www.fire-police-ems.com/misc/dc9895.shtml Title Crime Inc: History's Famed Offenders - Episodes 13x25mins - Distributor Mill Creek Entertainment - Year 2011 - Format DVD

https://tv.apple.com/no/show/crime-inc/umc.cmc.620xkg8ibcdnh1w5ybt4q9b9p Title Crime Inc - 13x25mins - Year 2008 - Studio - Janson Media 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/janson-media Janson Media's LinkedIn

https://www.playpilot.com/uk/show/crime-inc/season-1/ Random website - Title Crime Inc

http://mobile.suddenlink2go.com/series/97716858/details/crime-inc-2008 Random website - Title Crime Inc: History's Famed Offenders (same name as the DVD) - Year 2012 - Released 20th April 2008 - Clicking on full details says title is Crime Inc (2008)

https://www.tvtime.com/en/show/291720 Random website - Title Crimes of the Times: Crime Inc. No details other that it was released on the El Rey Network (which is owned by the famous film director Robert Rodriguez).

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheUnauthorizedStory/search?query=crime+inc Random Youtube channel with all 13 episodes in 480p quality

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp4wHZCrDhITkiUILOd4gRw/search?query=crime+inc Random Youtube channel with all 13 episodes in 480p, plus all 13 episodes as full episodes, or their individual mini stories.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5K8i_EskNvIAxa5EsZ9qw/search?query=crime+inc Random Youtube channel with 13 episodes in 720p quality.


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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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I've just noticed the DVD version again, this time being distributed by World Wide Entertainment and Mill Creek Entertainment, with the release year being 2010 https://catalog.ncls.org/client/en_US/nclscat/search/detailnonmodal/ent:$002f$002fSD_ILS$002f0$002fSD_ILS:939193/ada?qu=crime+inc&ic=true&ps=300

(Edited)
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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Post 2 of 2 - These are the credits in the 720p videos

Narrator - John Stanton

Vision Sources - APTN, British Satellite News, ITN Archives, Reuters, US Library of Congress

Videotape Operators - Lisa Hendry, Meaghan Kirby, Mathew Harper (Ep3 no Meaghan or Lisa. Replaced with Andrew Yong, Alex Farmer, Natalie Mylius, Mark Yelverton) (Ep11 to 13 no Meaghan or LisaMathew now credited as MatAndrew Yong, Kiam Linford, Alex Farmer, Mark Yelverton)

Production Design - Astro Media Pty Ltd 

Technical Co-ordinator (episode 3 only) - Lisa Hendry

Graphic Artist - Elisa Thomson

Audio Design - Brendan O'Neill, Rare Noise Productions

Music - www.freeplaymusic.com

Creative Consultant - Marilyn Higgins 

Production Facility Manager (episodes 11 to 13 only) - Lisa Hendry

Editor - Keith Maitland (Ep3 Andrew Thomson)

Writers - Merran Williams (plus Madeline Swaine for episode 1 alone) 

Producers - Andrew Thomson, Merran Williams

Executive Producer - Nick Farrow (Ep3 Nick Farrow executive producer for World Wide Entertainment) (Ep11 to 13 Executive Producer - World Wide Entertainment)

The 480p videos have the same credits but have a Janson Media logo before the opening titles, plus a Switch International logo, and a "A production of Astro Media pty ltd" logo after the credits.
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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...
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Daniel Francis Gardecki

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So which companies, episode order and episode titles should I use for Crime Inc (2008)?
What run times should I use, as some websites say 25 mins while others say 30 mins?
And is it a web series?

What does it mean when a companies logo appears before a programme starts, with no information about how they were involved, like the logo for the American company Janson Media appearing before the opening titles in the 480p videos?

I'd say that:

Production companies
1 - World Wide Entertainment [au] (Production)
2 - Astro Media [au] (Production)

Distribution companies
1 - World Wide Entertainment [au] (Distribution) (even though it doesn't exist on IMDB yet, and no longer exists as a company, and it's now called Switch International) 2008 All Media
2 - Switch International [au] (Distributor) 2008 All Media
3 - Janson Media [us] (Distributor) 2008 Video
4 - Film Ideas [us] (Distributor) 2008 Video (version of the show with a different title)
5 - Mill Creek Entertainment [us] (Distributor) 2010 DVD (another version of the show with a different title)
6 - Chip Taylor Communications [us] (Distributor) 2015 Video (as that's what Chip Taylor's own website says)

Episode order and titles - (as shown here http://www.switchint.com/documents/crimeinccompletesynopsis.pdf)
Episode 1 - The Attempted Assassination of Ronald Reagan: Bonnie & Clyde: Martha Stewart: The Killing Fields: Terrorist Sea Suicide Bombing: Sophia Loren
Episode 2 - The Yorkshire Ripper: George Harrison Assassination Attempt: Heaven’s Gate: George Best: Fatty Arbuckle: The Sharpeville Massacre: Gangster’s Pantheon
Episode 3 - Moors Murders: Watergate Scandal: O.J.Simpson Trial: Sara Thornton Trial: Jack The Ripper
Episode 4 - The Profumo Affair: Phil Spector: Beirut Barracks Bombings: Lil’ Kim: Thomas Ince
Episode 5 - Charles Lindbergh Kidnapping: Boy George: John F. Kennedy: Snoop Dogg: Anthrax Attack: Lizzie Borden
Episode 6 - The Great Train Robbery: Brighton Bombers: Christian Slater: Tiananmen Square: Al Capone
Episode 7 - The Black Dahlia: Oklahoma Bombing: Sorbonne Riots: Black September: Naomi Campbell: Mersey Gang War
Episode 8 - Princes In The Tower: September 11 Attacks: U-2 Spy Plane Capture: Jockey Tax Evasion: Cricket Coach Mystery
Episode 9 - Roman Polanski: Srebrenica Massacre: Ronnie Biggs: Colin Stagg: Russell Crowe
Episode 10 - Bopal Gas Leak: Gary Glitter: Assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jnr: Wife Revenge: Ward 4 Killings: Drug Smuggler’s Execution
Episode 11 - Soviet Union Serial Killers: Queen of Mean: Mardi Gra Bomber: Computer Crime: Ted Bundy: Courtney Love
Episode 12 - Notorious Nanny: Fashion Felon: House of Horrors: Crime Fighters: Malaysian Weapons Heist: Art Heist
Episode 13 - Millennium Dome Heist: Drug Smuggling: Mike Tyson: London Bombings: The Drummond Murders: Tehran Civil Protest: Curse of the Kennedy’s