Different seasons of the same TV Series 'Svaty' have seperate entries on IMDb, but not able to merge into 1 entry

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  • (Edited)
There's a tv series, which has a seperate season as a new IMDb entry, while in fact it should be just 1 entry with a list of seasons. I've submitted request to merge these intries into the "Svaty" entry (for season 1), but it's been more than a month and it still hasn't been approved (or got denied). Please help (links to seasons and to my submissions to merge into 1 are below)

Svaty (main entry to which all seasons should be merged into): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820225/ (season 1)
Svati (duplicate entry) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4757588/ (season 1)
 * submission #
Svaty 2: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1860046/ (season 2)
 * submission # 190728-013310-702000
Svaty 3: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1867358/ (season 3)
 * submission # 190728-013341-754000
Svaty 4: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870201/ (season 4)
 * submission # 190728-013408-373000
Svaty 5: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2860316/ (season 5)
 * submission # 190728-013439-670000
Svaty 6: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2926386/ (season 6)
 * submission # 190728-013439-670000
Novogodnie svaty (2011) (TV): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1860046/ (New Year Special)
 * submission  # 190728-013236-816000

Any help would be appreciated!

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piznajko

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Posted 8 months ago

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MAthePA

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Svati https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4757588/
is not duplicate, this is separate series produced in Russia starting in 2014 as mentioned correct on the title page. The original title is "Сватьи" or its alternate name "Свахи", not "Сваты".
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MAthePA

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There is related images:




I think that any similar misunderstanding between these titles may further occur because the original name for this series is wrong transliterated.
It would be better "Svatyi", not "Svati". And the best and the only correct variant of transliteration is "Svat'i" but the apostrophes are not allowed for this on IMDb.
(Edited)
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piznajko

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Thanks for pointing this out - the Svati 2014 (which sounds eponymous in the way it's spelled in English to Svaty) is indeed a different Russian series (although confusingly enough it has some of the actors from the original series, e.g. Lyudmila Artemeva ). This one entry https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4757588/ is indeed NOT a duplicate, I made an error above (because of the same actors). For others however - they are indeed all seasons of the same TV series.

(Edited)
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MAthePA

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Novogodnie svaty (2011) (TV) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820565 
can not be merged into Svaty series page. It's a TV movie, no matter keyworded as "TV special" or not.
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MAthePA

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For the rest of initially mentioned issues, they seem to be more emotional than logical, or are not based on factual data. But the "Svaty" production is an issue itself, I must admit.

Since this problem is spoken, no matter correct way or not, there is the whole story in few words for the editors' attention:
  1. Svaty (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820225/) was initially produced as a TV-movie that technically is mini-series because of split into 2 parts (episodes) when airing;
  2. Svaty 2 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1860046/) was also produced and released the same way as the initial Svaty, having two episodes;
  3. Svaty 3 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1867358/) is the very first TV-series in this production, and the first episode was released on the days of "Svaty 2" airing;
  4. Followed by Svaty 4 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870201/);
  5. Followed by Svaty 5 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2860316/);
  6. Followed by Svaty 6 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2926386/).
The above data should be known for the TS because he seems participating as an editor for Svaty pages at Wikipedia. But for unknown reasons, he keeps trying to frame the IMDb system by the Wiki system, and not vice versa.
(Edited)
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MAthePA

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The above factual data are provided by me as I know and remember them. If they need more proofs, let's visit the archived site of TV-channel "Inter" because Svaty were first released on Inter and later Inter also co-produced the sequel Svaty 2 and the Svaty series

  1. Svaty released initially as TV-movie, this fact is confirmed on the official page of Svaty;
  2. Svaty 2 released initially as TV-movie, this fact is confirmed on the official page of Svaty 2;
  3. Svaty 3 released initially as TV-series, this fact is confirmed on the official page of Svaty 3;
  4. The 1st and 2nd facts mentioned above are also confirmed on the news page;
  5. The TV-series Svaty 3 is a sequel to the TV-movies Svaty and Svaty 2, this fact is confirmed on the news page.
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piznajko

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MAthePA as I noted above - thanks for correcting me - "Svati" 2014  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4757588/ is indeed a seperate Russian series (what confused me was that the same actors participated in the 2014 remake as in the original series).

For all other submissions - they are indeed seperate seasons of the same series, and should be merged into one entry. You comments above, unfortunately, don't help clarify anything, and only serve to "confuse" the reader; futhermore, your comment above about the fact that I also edit film-rleated Wikipedia articles does not seem relevant: there's nothing wrong in contributing to both Wikipedia and IMDb

Also, below please find correct data (since MAthePA provided factually incorrect statements above that I assume are done to confuse IMDb editors):

  1. Svaty (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820225/) - 1st season (2 episodes)
  2. Svaty 2 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1860046/) - 2nd season (2 episodes)
  3. Svaty 3 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1867358/) - 3rd season (12 episodes)
  4. Followed by Svaty 4 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870201/); - 4th season (16 episodes)
  5. Followed by Svaty 5 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2860316/); - 5th season (16 episodes)
  6. Followed by Svaty 6 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2926386/). - 6th season (16 episodes)
  7. Novogodnie svaty (2011)  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820565  - New Year special episodes (e.g., similar to how 'Doctor Who' has new year special episodes that are NOT marked as TV Movie, but instead as New Year special

@IMDb admins: please disregard comments from MAthePA above - unfortunately they were not made to clarify things (as the editor clearly does not have any relevant knowledge on this matter). To provide further proof that the 6th seasons (plus New Year special) should be merged into one entry, please see below the quote from teh official website of the production company that created the series. Specifically, below is the comment http://kvartal95.com/en/projects/the-in-laws6/ on the 6th season of the series:

In the sixth season of the The In-Laws the audience is again in for the incredible amount of most unexpected adventures of favorite characters. But for the first time we will live with the family of Bud'ko-Kovalevy-Berkovichi not only during a short summer vacation, but the whole year. The In-Laws with their grandchildren will have time to congratulate their women on the 8th of March (International Women Day), "work hard" in the farm on planting-watering- harvesting seasons and send Zhenya to the University, of course, not forgetting the quarrel to the nines. They will congratulate the veterans on 9th of May (Victory Day), survive with Mityay all the difficulties of Larissa’s pregnancy. They will celebrate the anniversary of Ivan that luckily coincidences with Police Day. The family of Bud'ko-Kovalevy-Berkovichi will visit the ""Euro -2012"", take a ride on a cruise ship on the Volga river, visit Paris, detain a fugitive, save the harvest for the country and the country of bureaucracy, organize Berkovich's wedding, and pay a visit to the past! And, of course, they will celebrate the New Year! The series fans will pass through the family teambuilding, plunge into a mystical horror, melodrama, experience all the vicissitudes of a thriller, and will live a production drama... And all this is spiced with a unique The In-Laws’s humour!



(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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That's a big problem of Post-Soviet series in general, although it's slow fading away, thankfully - sequel series. Due to sequel-like title, despite sequels being practically just next seasons it is impossible to merge all of those into one title. 

This only happens with series in other corners of the world when format of the series changes, and so does production company, marketing and a few other aspects, like in case of "Twin Peaks" (1990) and "Twin Peaks" (2017), former being regular network TV series and latter being special event network mini-series, although practically it is Season 3.  
(Edited)
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piznajko

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Twin Peaks example is not really relevant here (e.g., it would be comparing apples to oranges). In case of Twin Peaks, they had a series in 1990, and then basically a reboot in 2017. In this case (which is very different from Twin Peaks), the series Svaty had very few episodes in the first 2 seosons, and then expended to being first 12-episodes (3rd season) and then 16 episodes (4-6th seasons).
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Hi piznajko -

For clarity, can you confirm that all separate titles should be merged as seasons of this existing series: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820225/?

Also, this title: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820565/ should be listed under Season 6 as it aired as an episode special, is that correct?
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MAthePA

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Hi, Michelle.

It is well known that the episodes and series matters are sometimes a question of categorization, so editors solve them individually. That's why I listed the related facts above and left the question of categorization for the editors, and hence the final decision as to merge or not.

But in this particular case, it seems that the way this question was initially up is going to break the official principle:
In some cases TV movies or specials are created with no intention of going to series, however they become so popular that one ends up being commissioned. On these occasions we would prefer to keep the original TV Movie separate, as was originally intended, even if it is subsequently packaged as part of the overall series in future airings and dvd releases.
So it's up to your decision, but if the first released TV-movie that was separate when released and having initially no plans to be continued and the second one (a sequel) would be merged with the rest, then please make changes or additions to the above cited guidelines produced by IMDb staff.

It seems to me that similar cases were solved by means of referential links.
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piznajko

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Hi Michelle, thanks for you quick reply.

Yes, please merge all seperate seasons (that currently have seperate entries) into the main entry https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820225/ . As for the New Year special episode from 2010 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820565/  it should be listed as a special episode of Season 4, as it was aired during the night of December  31 2009 / January 1 2010 as the last episode of Season 4.

Laslty, I want to point out that there is NO confusion from the production company Kvartal 95, that these are just different seasons for the same series, e.g., on official website of production company Kvartal 95 the seasons are clearly labeled as season with no ambiguity, e.g.,:

* Season 3: "Events of the 3rd season of The In-Laws series take place in a village..." http://kvartal95.com/en/projects/the-in-laws3/
* Season 4: In the fourth season of The In-Laws the events take place in the summer resort..."  http://kvartal95.com/en/projects/the-in-laws4/
* Season 6: In the sixth season of the The In-Laws the audience is again in for the incredible amount of most unexpected adventures of favorite characters..."  http://kvartal95.com/en/projects/the-in-laws6/

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piznajko, another point to consider: Kvartal 95 has a title scorecard and several IMDb Pro accounts: they manage their pages themeselves, so if they decided production-wise to merge all of those in one title, they would've done that a long time ago.  
(Edited)
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MAthePA

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Hi, Nikolay.

Indeed, your view on this is right-minded. However, it would be great if all contributors understood one clear thing on this matter: IMDb has pointed out that the factual circumstances around the first releases are of a special meaning for categorization. So for the database, it is not important what the producer thinks now and how the audience may think after his marketing changes. The only important thing is how it was in reality at the moment of the first release.

If the IMDb policy on this changed, then it would be great to see the respective changes in the guidelines, and I'd like to see no exclusions - let all the TV-movies of other productions be merged with the seasons of respective series.

A spontaneous set of edits initiated by a contributor providing no evidence for the moment of first release can result in chaos again.
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Hi MAthePA please see my above comment : the first two seasons were not TV-movies, but series with only 2 episdes (I guess technically they are mini-series seasons). Again, productiong company Kvartal 95 clearly considers all 6 seasons of this tv-series as seperate seasons (and not as seperate films, TV films etc.).
(Edited)
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Hi piznajko,

Thanks for your responses and extra info! 

I've cut a ticket for our data editors to look into these merges for you, please allow some time for them to work through this.

Thanks,

Joel 
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Hello to all. I will be connected to the conversation since I myself recently thought about this problem. I think that the series should be combined into a single page (with the exception of the full-length television film). The creators of the series position it as a single series, and the numbering is a distorted principle of the post-Soviet television space in determining the seasons, which does not correspond to the common principle on television in the United States or Europe. Links and text are in the Russian-language version of the series Wikipedia: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B

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MAthePA

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The problem is not only in numbering. 
  1. Svaty released initially as TV-movie, this fact is confirmed on the official page of Svaty and on the news page on the days of first;
  2. Svaty 2 released initially as TV-movie, this fact is confirmed on the official page of Svaty 2 and on the news page on the days of first release;
  3. The TV-series Svaty 3 is a sequel to the TV-movies Svaty and Svaty 2, this fact is confirmed on the news page on the days of first release.
On these occasions we would prefer to keep the original TV Movie separate, as was originally intended, even if it is subsequently packaged as part of the overall series in future airings and dvd releases.
___________________________

Concerning the TV-movie Novogodnie svaty (2011) , it can not be merged in any case because it has another different format: a musical, no story prequel or sequel, no plot connection.
(Edited)
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Den Budanov

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I think that in this case, nevertheless apply an analogy as, for example, in the popular animated series "Nu, pogodi!" (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0234355/reference) each episode, although it was numbered, was shown in cinemas and was a separate film as segments of Tom and Jerry. But at the same time, everything is combined into a single series.



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Not an analogy at all.
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Den Budanov, actually that might be wrong: I am a bit confused about "Nu, pogodi" release history (I always thought it was primarily TV-based), but if they are mostly theatrical they should be added as separate entities. 

TV series might remain, though, with shell episodes merely as redirects to original shorts. That needs further research... 
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Den Budanov

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In fact, the situation here is twofold. On the one hand, given that the creators number the seasons and release them separately using a common brand, then yes they can be placed on separate pages. But on the other hand, all these variations can be considered as "alternative versions" of one whole. Many series were conceived as a television film or were not planned to be continued, but after the conveyor production went on, from now on this is one single series. I agree that it is necessary to study in more detail the problem that actually everyone in this topic is trying to do it.
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Den Budanov, yes, it's very difficult to classify some of the Soviet and Post-Soviet cartoons for that reasons. And even some of the large live-action TV series, as well.  
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MAthePA

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Den &  Nick:
To classify is not so hard when we rely on wisely chosen principles and facts. Our desires should not influence the understanding of facts. Facts must not be understood differently according to a desire.

Back to "Svaty" -- this was not planned for series when first production started and even when it was released. The sequel "Svaty 2" was also not planned at all until Inter went for co-production. And then, after the extra success of the first TV-movie, only after that they started the series filming (Svaty 3) in parallel with "Svaty 2" production, and both finally were released in a day after each other.

For me, there would be no problem to share the current attitude of the producer to name all this as "6 seasons series". BUT we are here on IMDb (nor Wikipedia, nor Kvartal 95), and IMDb wants those movies as movies. So guys, please understand one thing: if you do want those Svaty be all as one series, there is no objective reasons for an exclusion, so all the rest of similar situations for other productions can be turned the same way in the base.
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piznajko

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MAthePA  TV Series Svaty is indeed a TV Series of 6 season - this was clearly stated on the production company website (see examples above here etc.). Please don't bring other, unrelated, TV Series such as "Nu, pogodi, into this conversation - they are not relevant to this discussion as it is focused solely on the TV Series Svaty.

While I've said it repeatedly in my comments above, I want to repeat this: there is NO ambiguity on the part of production company that this is a 6-season TV Series - it is indeed a TV Series and not a collection of unrelated "mini-series". The terminology "TV Series" and appropriate series' season number are repeatedly mentinoed on production company's website (see http://kvartal95.com/en/projects/the-in-laws3/ , http://kvartal95.com/en/projects/the-in-laws4/ , http://kvartal95.com/en/projects/the-in-laws6/ etc.

Lastly, there's no IMDb rule that says this should not be one TV-series entry; in fact IMDb encourages correct labeling on its website, therefore it is encouraged that 6-seasons long TV Series Svaty was one entry on IMDb rather than seperate entries.
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MAthePA

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It seems piznajko (ur24424168) succeeded to add more seasons to the original Svaty [1] and to change the main poster to Svaty 6 there:


where the original title-poster (including no "6" or other numbers) had been before this discussion paused at some point:
Svaty 2008

EDITORS, please react on this. 
Those who did these changes are not familiar with the content. 
The changes are done without any objective proof.
(Edited)
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piznajko

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MAthePA    please do not misinform IMDb community - TV series 'Svaty' is a six season (plus one NY special) TV Series. I have provided reliable sources that prove that production '95 kvartal' clearly labels this as a 6 season TV Series (see here and here)

Please stop beating a dead horse! This is a 6 season TV series and no amount of your denialism can change that.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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MAthePA    please do not misinform IMDb community
I guess I am not the only one that thinks this.
piznajko
I do agree that MtP gets off topic easily. He means well. Sometimes his interpretations of IMDb policy are correct. Sometimes not.
What I can say is that the only thing that matters here is that the database reflects "Exactly" the listing as it was at the date of creation, not what the production company decides it to be at a later date. Not what a contributor decides or thinks is correct.
Many discussions on Get Satisfactions IMDb Page abound as to the creation of a page that lists all titles in a series in one place. This as yet does not exist.
If the titles you are talking about were released separately then at a later date combined. From reading past decisions by staff is that they must be kept separate and not included as part of a series. Even if they were later aired as part of a re-imagined series.

This is a reply by Will on a similar subject of a contributor attempting to merge stand alone titles by creating a series.
This may apply or may not.

Cheers
Ed

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Hi all,

We wouldn't want to change the primary title of any of these shorts as that was the title those shorts were originally released under, however you could add a (syndication title) alternate title to each of the shorts. That way they would appear in any Looney Tunes searches.  You could also add movie connections where applicable linking the titles to aid discovery.

We do not have the functionality to list "Movie series" at this point in time. Have you checked the ideas section to see if we already have this listed as a suggestion? If so you can +1 it or if not you can create a new idea for this feature.

Regards,
Will


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piznajko

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Hi Ed Jones (XLIX), thank you for your constructive critisism.

I agree that current IMDb rules state that if the 'shorts' or 'mini-series' or 'films' are released seperately, they should remain as seperate entries. Based on your quote from Will above, it is plain that IMDb admins follow this logic and this is indeed how they currently interpret IMDb rules.

I also want to point out that we should not compare oranges to apples. I'm sure there are indeed cases when a couple of TV movies or TV mini-series were released as standalone titles, albeit with some similar "theme". However, this is not the case here - Svaty TV Series is clearly labled as a 6 season TV Series by its production company "Studio Kvartal 95", quote from official production website:

One of our most popular television projects has been the comedy series The In-Laws (Svaty) – 6 seasons – which had unprecedented success not only in Ukraine but also outside the country. The series 3 times was voted as the best Ukrainian comedy TV Series in Ukraine with highest TV ratings. In 2012-2014, the series was nominated in Monte Carlo Television Festival as the series viewed by the largest audience on five continents, reaching the top three positions in the comedy category along with the Desperate Housewives and The Big Bang Theory
Furthermore, producer of this TV Series is the infamous comedian-turned-president Volodymy Zelensky  who has been the president of Ukraine since Aug 2019, and who included in his official presidential biography that he worked as a producer on a 6 seasons TV Series Svaty. A president of a country wouldn't lie in his official biography: e.g., if he stated that he worked on 6 seperate TV movies or TV mini-series, that would be one thing, but he stated clearly that he was a producer on a 6 seasons TV Series Svaty.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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This was the point I was making. They say this now.

Svaty TV Series is clearly labled as a 6 season TV Series by its production company "Studio Kvartal 95", quote from official production website:



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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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What was it being promoted as in 2008? And what was said then in the official production website?
(Edited)
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Den Budanov

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Following the logic of the comments, 50% of the series need to make separate pages. For example, the same American horror story and American crime story. Many series that were originally produced either as a miniseries or a one-season project, but then spilled over into a series of seasons and television films. I apologize for the flood, but since I’m talking about the Ukrainian series, can someone help make this out: tt4590496 - instead of a short page for the series, I just don’t know how to do it. Proof: 5baksiv.net Thanks.


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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Someone has only uploaded a single episode of a series to this Database (IMDb) as a standalone title and incorrectly called that episode by it's series name.
It needs to fixed. A series page needs to be created and the associate episodes need to be added to the series title "5baksiv.net". It is a very complicated procedure and would not recommend a novice contributor doing it.
(Edited)
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Den Budanov

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Therefore, I wrote. I do not know how to do this, but maybe someone from experienced contributors can help correct this inaccuracy. Or is it necessary to create a separate topic for this occasion?





(Edited)