Birth names no longer a useful section of the database?

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I just noticed this article https://www.imdb.com/news/ni62580914 that links to this article https://variety.com/2019/film/actors/imdb-alters-policy-publication-birth-names-1203300451/. I just want a staffer to respond to this news. Is it true that IMDb allows birth names to be completely to be deleted from the database, nowhere to be found? If this is not true, that's good. If this is true, the database has been compromised and IMDb has made a step in the wrong, Orwellian direction.


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Marco

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Posted 6 months ago

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MikeTheWhistle

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What's interesting, to me, is that the way the policy is written will apply to all birth names, not just transgender ones.

I'm not in the business, but is this something of concern across the industry like birth dates?  I can think of a whole list of security reasons why it might be the case, but just don't know.
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Luke Davies

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What about other factual information regarding films, tv shows or video games though? Will all that remain on imdb permanently?
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Kati Knitt

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You can't put that over the well being of marginalized people.
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Marco

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You can't put that over the well being of marginalized people.

A database is neutral. It doesn't judge. It doesn't give one group of people an advantage or a disadvantage. It doesn't have an opinion about the people it lists, be they marginalized or not.
A database does not marginalize people. Other people do that. And that is terrible and should be stopped. But not allowing people to talk and know about FACTS is always the wrong answer, no matter what the question is.
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Kati Knitt

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Deadnames are used to hurt people. IMDb is providing deadnames. IMDb is hurting trans people.
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Marco

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Birth names can be used to hurt people, but stating that birth names are always used to hurt people is just nonsense and I think you know that. IMDb doesn't use birth names to hurt people. Other people might use these names to hurt people, but that can't and shouldn't be blamed on an impartial database, it should be blamed on the people who willingly hurt other people.
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Marco

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Birth names can be used to hurt people, but stating that birth names are always used to hurt people is just nonsense and I think you know that. IMDb doesn't use birth names to hurt people. Other people might use these names to hurt people, but that can't and shouldn't be blamed on an impartial database, it should be blamed on the people who willingly hurt other people.
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Luke Davies

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The way I see it is, if IMDb caves for this.. soon other people in the industry will request removals of other valid information, then pretty much anyone will be able to remove whatever they want.. this new policy completely defeats the purpose of building a database.. it’s supposed to build and keep a permanent catalog of all things for film, tv shows and video games.. that’s its purpose
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Wow, Facebook comments on this article appearing on IMDb are a tsunami of people overreacting and being unnecessary rude...  
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Nikolay, sentiment in America by your everyday American has been against very small special interest groups having their way at all, in the enactment of laws (Government) and policy changes (Private Sector) by way of Bully Tactics. If you will have noticed only Kelli and two others came here and kicked the hornets nest on this very subject. I am part of the majority, yet my voice is not to be considered in any fashion. Only the minority rules. When this happens, you get a lot of rude and angry people on facebook. They are outraged at IMDb. While IMDb catered to a very small segment of the population and caved in on this fearing a loss of income if they did not, it will most likely have that loss of income from the backlash of the Majority. And probably lose more than they feared losing by implementing this policy change.

Bad Call on IMDb's part.
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Luke Davies

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Ya.. very bad call..
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Giancarlo Cairella, Official Rep

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Thank you for sharing your concerns about our new policy

As documented on the site, we will now review requests to remove a birth name from a person's biographical details if the birth name is not broadly publicly known (i.e. it's not already widely recognized and available elsewhere through sources such as major reference sites or publications) and if the person no longer voluntarily uses it (i.e. only uses their birth name when compelled to do so by government/legal requirements, but not in other aspects of their daily or professional life).



Names listed in filmography credits for titles in which the person was credited under their birth name will continue to be displayed. This is in order to continue providing IMDb’s hundreds of millions of customers worldwide with comprehensive information about film and TV credits, thereby preserving the factual historical record by accurately reflecting what is listed on-screen.


(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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Dear Giancarlo Cairella, Official Rep
They are  transsexual . REMOVE THE DEAD NAMING YOU HAVE PLAGUED THEM  WITH FOR 15 YEARS. You have been the single source of harassment for transgender community because no other site does what you do . I hope Glaad continues the lawsuit because CLEARLY you have not learned a thing Economically you have caused massive discrimination against them .

"if the person no longer voluntarily uses it "

Is this as joke? Whether they have to use it for any reason is none of your business. There are legal issues that are none of your damn business.

"in order to continue providing IMDb’s hundreds of millions of customers worldwide with comprehensive information"

That is the biggest joke of all. You are a fan site and you use IMDB Pro to extort money out of people simply to control their own data. No person should have argue that they have changed their name  then watch you pull out those old names to abuse them with like it is some kind of "pure data collection".

"hereby preserving the factual historical record "

That is utter BS. Laverne Cox being Laverne Cox on previous films  does not alter the films credits. You do not create  or alter credits, you track them. Laverne Cox does not become a different person. It is an absurd argument. Historical record. For what  when NY falls and we become the Planet if the Apes?
(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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Marco

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As documented on the site, we will now review requests to remove a birth name from a person's biographical details if the birth name is not broadly publicly known (i.e. it's not already widely recognized and available elsewhere through sources such as major reference sites or publications) and if the person no longer voluntarily uses it (i.e. only uses their birth name when compelled to do so by government/legal requirements, but not in other aspects of their daily or professional life).


So what you're saying is that birth names can be removed, even if they're factual?
Doesn't that go against the fundamental concept of a database? Isn't IMDb undermining IMDb here?
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Marco

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They are  transsexual .

Maybe I missed something, but I don't believe anybody said they aren't.

REMOVE THE DEAD NAMING YOU HAVE PLAGUED THEM  WITH FOR 15 FKING YEARS.

Shouting and cursing is rather unbecoming.

You have been the single source of harassment for transgender community

You have quite some nerve accusing a database that publishes data of harassment. If you don't want a database stating facts, I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Is this as joke?

That's what I thought when I first heard about this ridiculous policy change, but for a totally different reason.


That is the biggest joke of all.

Are you saying that you know what it is all these hundreds of millions of people look up while they're on IMDb?

You are a fan site

Database.

you use IMDB Pro to extort money out of people simply to control their own data.

You don't have to use IMDbPro you know. If you deserve an IMDb name page, you will get one. And on regular IMDb, your name and some information about you will be visible, whether or not you have IMDbPro doesn't change that.

to abuse them

Why do you consider it abuse that a database stores birth names of the people in the database? There's no shame in one's birth name. It's the name one is given around the time of their birth, nothing more, nothing less. There is no abuse in stating the fact of one's birth name, and especially not for a database.
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J.

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I'm in favor of IMDb allowing workaday non-celebrity actors and crew to remove personal information, such as birth names and ages, from the database. Anyone can make a YouTube video and put in on IMDb. What's to stop someone from thanking an enemy in his YouTube video, which allows him to create an IMDb name page for the guy, and put out his personal information?

But IMDb is only allowing the removal of one kind of personal information. And they're doing it because they caved in to a pressure group. I'm against caving in to pressure groups.

I hope IMDb notices that they gained NOTHING through this decision. One of the pressure groups is already calling the decision "a half-measure." The more they cave in, the more the pressure groups will demand more caving.
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Emma Arpin

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IMDb gets used as a resume in the entertainment industry, and the previous policy assisted discrimination of trans people in the industry. Lots of people who are "workaday non-celebrity actors and crew" were negatively affected by IMDb's previous policy. Also, IMDb assisted in discrimination, and to an extent still does, of people who work additional jobs outside of the entertainment industry as "workaday non-celebrities," along with other issues such as housing discrimination.
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J.

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My position is that IMDb should allow workaday non-celebrity actors and crew to remove personal information from the database if it did not appear in film credits.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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What if it was a news article in the Hollywood Reporter about that work-a-day actor. And what IS the definition of celebrity. If one person celebrates your existence, then you are celebrated. I was a minor celebrity in Drag Racing and in the Nightclub Industry in Denver in the 80's and 90's. I have signed a whole whopping 5 autographs on racing programs. So in reality celebrity is interpreted by an individual and not to be defined by an arbitrary policy.
(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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Ok, like I have logic?  You mean logical people aren't allowed here ? ?????
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Emma Arpin, just my five cents but I always thought of IMDb being used as a resume as a side effect. It was and is, first and foremost, a database. So from my point of view the process is a bit similar to, say, taking a dictionary or encyclopedia, or an archive and replacing all the legit info with resumes, with no discretion as to whether those are correct or not. It happened before you know. It, with people like Quentin Tarantino falsely putting credits/roles in Dawn of the Dead (1978) and King Lear (1987) on his resume, knowing they would be a hard thing to verify. They then ended up being on  Leonard Maltin's Movie and Video Guide and are still surface from time to time as a false fact. That is exactly what happens when people mostly treat databases and encyclopedias as promotional instruments. 
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Tom? Where are you? You are here for this specific reason.
Waiting for your reaction to the Princesses abusive diatribe.
The last instance took 6 hours.
Faster than staff, but too slow in real time. We need three Toms!
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Princess Perky Pants

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" if this is how you try to persuade people"

I AM NOT TRYING TO PERSUADE YOU! I HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM PERSUADING YOU OR ANY OTHER PREJUDICE PERSON ON THIS FORUM! !  You aren't a jury, you decide nothing. You just purvey your common ignorance to other ignorant people who validate your ignorance.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk
(Edited)
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Emma Arpin

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People are upset because the issue is quite personal for a lot of people, MikeTheWhistle.

Yes, this is a small step toward fixing the problem. However, listing deadnames in previous credits brings up all sorts of problems, including young people who made projects in their teens with friends before they were working professionally. They would be followed by their deadname and face discrimination in the industry, side jobs, and housing. IMDb significantly lowered the bar for what qualifies for listings some years ago, around when they still ran the now failed Withoutabox.

There are other fixes, including using the most recent credit, not the first credit, which would allow the database to stay accurate, in fact more accurate.
(Edited)
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Marco

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However, listing deadnames in previous credits brings up all sorts of problems

So after this, there are more facts you feel should be removed from the database. And after that, perhaps you feel people should be able to remove their date of birth? Or do you feel that I Am Not Your Negro () should be called I Am Not Your N-word? You can't have a proper functioning database and at the same time please every group of people who - for whatever reasons, some of them perhaps even rather understandable - wants to delete information from that database. You have to choose, you can't have both.
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Marco

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However, listing deadnames in previous credits brings up all sorts of problems

So after this, there are more facts you feel should be removed from the database. And after that, perhaps you feel people should be able to remove their date of birth? Or do you feel that I Am Not Your Negro () should be called I Am Not Your N-word? You can't have a proper functioning database and at the same time please every group of people who - for whatever reasons, some of them perhaps even rather understandable - wants to delete information from that database. You have to choose, you can't have both.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Back to Bellevue

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Kati Knitt

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Cranky because you're transphobic?
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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But Communal thinking is embraced by the left. That's why I used it.
Are you saying your a conservative? A Red Hat?
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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You are misinterpreting it. Plain and simple. You have a narrow prejudicial view on things in general. You site a leftest view as bad because it does not fit "Your" narrative. I can have a debate and not stoop to calling anyone a name. You however cannot.
This is usually a sign of someone that is losing an argument.
I can control myself. You however cannot.
It makes you impossible to be found credible.
Bye Bye
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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As I said...............
This is usually a sign of someone that is losing an argument.
I can control myself. You however cannot.
It makes you impossible to be found credible.
Bye Bye


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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Bye Bye
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Unfollow this thread
Delete your account
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ACT_1

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On or Off topic here ? ?

Caitlyn Jenner
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0421063/
Born: October 28, 1949 in Mount Kisco, New York, USA
Birth Name : William Bruce Jenner

In June of 2015,
she completed her public gender transition
and introduced herself as Caitlyn Jenner
with an article and photo shoot in Vanity Fair magazine.

Actress: Movie (5 credits)
2014 - The Hungover Games  - Skip Bayflick (as Bruce Jenner)
2011/I - Jack and Jill - Bruce Jenner (as Bruce Jenner)
1999 - The Big Tease - Bruce Jenner (as Bruce Jenner)
1990 - A Man Called Sarge - Special Appearance (as Bruce Jenner)
1980 - Can't Stop the Music - Ron White (as Bruce Jenner)
- - -

Bruce Jenner Was an Actor way back then...
.

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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There are both.
Before and after.

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Princess Perky Pants

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No Caitlyn Jenner suffered from GID since 1972 according to her first wife. There was no Bruce. 
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Princess Perky Pants, not arguing that, but there were credits which said Bruce Jenner. There's certain legality of name and credits in this world which I'm not too happy about myself, so saying that "there was no Bruce" just does not work in this world, figuartively. And yes, we live in an imperfect crapsack dystopian world in which most of Earth's population still have way too much problems which they should not. We should not have as much problems with legally confirming who we are and who we are not as well as having that much problems thinking about credits in movies.  

Using your logic actual person named Divine never existed, but that's how Harris Glen Milstead was nearly always credited. And just in case: no, Divine reportedly never had GID, so in this case his birth name applies. Although IMDb trivia is perpetually confused and refers to Divine as both her and him, depending on perspective.  
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Princess Perky Pants

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Look  Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin),  I don't have time to time to explain the difference between a drag queen and a transsexual. Divine was Glens character, he never changed his name, never claimed to be transsexual. To spend more time here when the ignorance is so deep is a waste. Bigots and the incompetent  mod  who doesn't know the job make the discussion impossible.   Here in this world tyrants you do what you want. Lie, insult, make up bullshit.This is nothing but a fan run bullshit factory. Sorry but that is the truth. Have  great day making up nonsense. 
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Luke Davies

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Dear Imdb,

Please continue with your policy, keep all valid information on this website permanently
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Marco

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keep all valid information on this website permanently

I second this.
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J.

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IMDb's policy change has invited further demands. I hope they ask themselves whether they will please anyone by giving in to more demands.
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J.

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I hope IMDb takes a careful look at this thread and notices what contempt the activists have for the database and its contributors. Agree to their demands and you can expect more demands and fewer contributors.
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ACT_1

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https://contribute.imdb.com/czone/hall_of_fame
Top Plot Summary Writers
Top Mini-Bio Writers

No Top Titles or Names contributors ? ?

For the entire calendar year 2018,
these were our top contributors of data.
RANK TOTAL NICKNAME
1   3,926,964     inespape-1
2      620,385     ahmetkozan
3      479,707     cinelamour
4      347,791     ron_whisky
5      220,879     pegg1976
.

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Well said J.
IMDb should reverse their decision. Not one thank you will ever be uttered. This small give in will embolden these people. We are only talking about a .6% of the population here that believe in this nonsense that deadnaming is an issue. This IS a SELF INFLICTED malady that was easily avoided.
Why should anyone accommodate the wishes of those that bring a malady upon themselves? They believe that their choices have consequences. They do. If you chose a lifestyle and don't expect judgement by a certain percentage of the populace you are delusional. There are people that are openly gay. They hide nothing. They face ridicule on a daily basis. That is sad. But it is a fact that cannot be denied. To ask that you be given special status based on a self chosen change is asking too much.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Your earlier vial and hateful diatribe has made you non credible.
Sock Puppeteering Especiality P Pants Mrs Whoever
Bye Bye
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Luke Davies

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Look, if imdb is gonna start caving in to all these different groups and giving in to demands to start removing various, factual, legitimate, valid information.. then i’m done, i’m not gonna use this site anymore
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Mike if you look back at my contributions you will see about 10-15 of these type of topics. Odd thing is is that are usually no more than 5 people and on average 2 1/2 persons on one side and 3 to 8 regular contributors that try to make common sense and point out the very same thing (Fact and Truth), but they always ignore that. Society has degraded to a point where people have been conditioned by the media and academia and don't realize that they are victims of it. The conditioning is so well planned that the people on the other side of any debate (us) are bigots, racists and the like. So they do not have any idea that they are that way. Free thinking and adaptability is not in their wheelhouse. They are frozen in thought. Unmovable. Unreasonable. They are so predictable because of this. Problem is that the IMDb is a sitting target. What they don't realize is if they get their way (all 100% of the way) the database will become useless and unused. So no one will find them at all. They will have an even harder time finding work. Of course they will blame anyone but themselves for the databases shortcomings. Much like they don't blame themselves for their own lifestyle choices.
(Edited)
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MikeTheWhistle

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That sounds like a pretty good description. As I've said I'm not in the biz and don't understand all the ins/outs. I also don't understand the position regarding birth names and truly have no opinion and really wanted to gain the facts, but as you said that raised the you're a bigot/racist/etc and when that was destroyed it devolved into more name calling. Saying it doesn't matter what I think is so short-sighted because wouldn't it be nice to win over an advocate?
I think I was going to post it, but ultimately didn't. The best argument I've seen yet was that the new name isn't a "stage name" and that the new name is a more fundamental change. I feel like that is the start of a good argument, but unless someone wants to discuss the issue intelligently and maturely, that won't ever happen.
Oh well.
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J.

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I was really hoping to see any replies to finding a movie that blew their premise.
Why? Do think that person is capable of admitting when she's wrong? Unless you thought you could change her mind, I'm not sure what was the point of arguing with her.

Besides, this thread was supposed to be a discussion of IMDb policy, not a debate on transgenderism. May I encourage contributors to delete any posts of theirs that went off topic?

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Debbie Monk

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAA!
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MikeTheWhistle

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