Birth names no longer a useful section of the database?

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I just noticed this article https://www.imdb.com/news/ni62580914 that links to this article https://variety.com/2019/film/actors/imdb-alters-policy-publication-birth-names-1203300451/. I just want a staffer to respond to this news. Is it true that IMDb allows birth names to be completely to be deleted from the database, nowhere to be found? If this is not true, that's good. If this is true, the database has been compromised and IMDb has made a step in the wrong, Orwellian direction.


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Marco

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Posted 4 months ago

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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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And the comments are against IMDb caving in.
Did you notice that!
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Marco

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I hadn't noticed, but I can't say I'm surprised. If a company makes a wrong move, it's only logical that people comment on that.
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Luke Davies

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Ya i just read that too.. I thought Imdb’s whole cornerstone was the fact that they never delete valid information.. like these 2 articles even state:


https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#


And


https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#


What the hell happened?
(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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"Valid info" ??!  WTF do you knowing someones dead name?  You are here to look up movies, what you want is one of those investigation sites so you can dox people and harass them. 
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Marco

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"Valid info" ??!

Yes, valid info. This is a database. It stores data. In this particular case, about, among other things, people who worked on movies, series and video games. Someone's name as well as someone's birth name is data. It is stored in a database.

WTF do you knowing someones dead name?

I think that for literally 99 per cent of all famous people, it's easy to find out their birth names. So knowing the birth name of someone in this database is not that weird.

You are here to look up movies

Among other things. People are also here to look up actors, or directors, or simply people with whom they share a birthday. As founder and current CEO of IMDb, Col Needham, once said "IMDb means different things to different people."

what you want is one of those investigation sites so you can dox people and harass them.

If you are actually accusing people on this board of wanting to dox or harass people, you are way out of line and I feel you should take it back and apologize.
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Marco

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(if someone knows how to delete duplicated posts, I'm all ears)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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You cannot once a like has posted or a reply is made.
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Marco

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Thanks Ed, for clearing that up.
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MikeTheWhistle

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What's interesting, to me, is that the way the policy is written will apply to all birth names, not just transgender ones.

I'm not in the business, but is this something of concern across the industry like birth dates?  I can think of a whole list of security reasons why it might be the case, but just don't know.
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Luke Davies

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What about other factual information regarding films, tv shows or video games though? Will all that remain on imdb permanently?
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Kati Knitt

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You can't put that over the well being of marginalized people.
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Marco

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You can't put that over the well being of marginalized people.

A database is neutral. It doesn't judge. It doesn't give one group of people an advantage or a disadvantage. It doesn't have an opinion about the people it lists, be they marginalized or not.
A database does not marginalize people. Other people do that. And that is terrible and should be stopped. But not allowing people to talk and know about FACTS is always the wrong answer, no matter what the question is.
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Kati Knitt

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Deadnames are used to hurt people. IMDb is providing deadnames. IMDb is hurting trans people.
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Marco

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Birth names can be used to hurt people, but stating that birth names are always used to hurt people is just nonsense and I think you know that. IMDb doesn't use birth names to hurt people. Other people might use these names to hurt people, but that can't and shouldn't be blamed on an impartial database, it should be blamed on the people who willingly hurt other people.
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Marco

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Birth names can be used to hurt people, but stating that birth names are always used to hurt people is just nonsense and I think you know that. IMDb doesn't use birth names to hurt people. Other people might use these names to hurt people, but that can't and shouldn't be blamed on an impartial database, it should be blamed on the people who willingly hurt other people.
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Eboy

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It’s good to read this part from the Variety article:

”The IMDb spokesperson also said for birth name removal requests pertaining to titles in which a person was credited on-screen as their birth name, their credited name will remain listed in the credits section of applicable IMDb name and title pages in parentheses.”
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Luke Davies

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What does that mean? That their original name will still appear?
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Kelly L.

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If I understand correctly:

If someone was credited under their birth (or other former) name, then the credited name will still appear for credit identification purposes along with the current name (but the birth name will not appear in the biography section if requested).

If someone was not ever credited under their birth name, and all of the other conditions apply, then you won't see the birth name anymore.
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Luke Davies

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Ya because Imdb stress that on-screen credits are what matter

But they also state that will go forth and erase ALL birth names of those who have changed their names for whatever reason..
(Edited)
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Luke Davies

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My big question is: with this new policy revision..

Are the rules in these 3 following articles still permanent

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#

And

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#

And

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#
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Marco

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Are the rules in these 3 following articles still permanent

The way I understand all this bad news, is that the content of the first two articles needs an update and is currently incorrect.
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Luke Davies

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But the 3rd remains unaffected because it just has to do with film titles, tv show titles and video game titles, not their individual credits?
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Marco

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I think so, yes.
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Luke Davies

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled New imdb policy on birth names.

Because of this new policy on removing birth names

https://variety.com/2019/film/actors/...

Imdb will still keep all factual film titles, tv shows and video game titles permanently? Correct?
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Luke Davies

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The way I see it is, if IMDb caves for this.. soon other people in the industry will request removals of other valid information, then pretty much anyone will be able to remove whatever they want.. this new policy completely defeats the purpose of building a database.. it’s supposed to build and keep a permanent catalog of all things for film, tv shows and video games.. that’s its purpose
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Wow, Facebook comments on this article appearing on IMDb are a tsunami of people overreacting and being unnecessary rude...  
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Nikolay, sentiment in America by your everyday American has been against very small special interest groups having their way at all, in the enactment of laws (Government) and policy changes (Private Sector) by way of Bully Tactics. If you will have noticed only Kelli and two others came here and kicked the hornets nest on this very subject. I am part of the majority, yet my voice is not to be considered in any fashion. Only the minority rules. When this happens, you get a lot of rude and angry people on facebook. They are outraged at IMDb. While IMDb catered to a very small segment of the population and caved in on this fearing a loss of income if they did not, it will most likely have that loss of income from the backlash of the Majority. And probably lose more than they feared losing by implementing this policy change.

Bad Call on IMDb's part.
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Luke Davies

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Ya.. very bad call..
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Luke Davies

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Being rude about is extremely unnecessary for sure.. my only concern is that hoping this nee policy doesn’t compromise the database where everyone will soon request removals..
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Luke Davies

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Question about the new policy.

Can a staff member please confirm this: So to be absolutely clear, will this new policy regarding name changes, will it affect film titles, tv shows and video game staying on imdb permanently? Film titles, tv shows and video games staying on imdb for good will never change, correct?
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Giancarlo Cairella, Official Rep

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Thank you for sharing your concerns about our new policy

As documented on the site, we will now review requests to remove a birth name from a person's biographical details if the birth name is not broadly publicly known (i.e. it's not already widely recognized and available elsewhere through sources such as major reference sites or publications) and if the person no longer voluntarily uses it (i.e. only uses their birth name when compelled to do so by government/legal requirements, but not in other aspects of their daily or professional life).



Names listed in filmography credits for titles in which the person was credited under their birth name will continue to be displayed. This is in order to continue providing IMDb’s hundreds of millions of customers worldwide with comprehensive information about film and TV credits, thereby preserving the factual historical record by accurately reflecting what is listed on-screen.


(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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Dear Giancarlo Cairella, Official Rep
They are  transsexual . REMOVE THE DEAD NAMING YOU HAVE PLAGUED THEM  WITH FOR 15 YEARS. You have been the single source of harassment for transgender community because no other site does what you do . I hope Glaad continues the lawsuit because CLEARLY you have not learned a thing Economically you have caused massive discrimination against them .

"if the person no longer voluntarily uses it "

Is this as joke? Whether they have to use it for any reason is none of your business. There are legal issues that are none of your damn business.

"in order to continue providing IMDb’s hundreds of millions of customers worldwide with comprehensive information"

That is the biggest joke of all. You are a fan site and you use IMDB Pro to extort money out of people simply to control their own data. No person should have argue that they have changed their name  then watch you pull out those old names to abuse them with like it is some kind of "pure data collection".

"hereby preserving the factual historical record "

That is utter BS. Laverne Cox being Laverne Cox on previous films  does not alter the films credits. You do not create  or alter credits, you track them. Laverne Cox does not become a different person. It is an absurd argument. Historical record. For what  when NY falls and we become the Planet if the Apes?
(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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Marco

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As documented on the site, we will now review requests to remove a birth name from a person's biographical details if the birth name is not broadly publicly known (i.e. it's not already widely recognized and available elsewhere through sources such as major reference sites or publications) and if the person no longer voluntarily uses it (i.e. only uses their birth name when compelled to do so by government/legal requirements, but not in other aspects of their daily or professional life).


So what you're saying is that birth names can be removed, even if they're factual?
Doesn't that go against the fundamental concept of a database? Isn't IMDb undermining IMDb here?
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Marco

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They are  transsexual .

Maybe I missed something, but I don't believe anybody said they aren't.

REMOVE THE DEAD NAMING YOU HAVE PLAGUED THEM  WITH FOR 15 FKING YEARS.

Shouting and cursing is rather unbecoming.

You have been the single source of harassment for transgender community

You have quite some nerve accusing a database that publishes data of harassment. If you don't want a database stating facts, I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Is this as joke?

That's what I thought when I first heard about this ridiculous policy change, but for a totally different reason.


That is the biggest joke of all.

Are you saying that you know what it is all these hundreds of millions of people look up while they're on IMDb?

You are a fan site

Database.

you use IMDB Pro to extort money out of people simply to control their own data.

You don't have to use IMDbPro you know. If you deserve an IMDb name page, you will get one. And on regular IMDb, your name and some information about you will be visible, whether or not you have IMDbPro doesn't change that.

to abuse them

Why do you consider it abuse that a database stores birth names of the people in the database? There's no shame in one's birth name. It's the name one is given around the time of their birth, nothing more, nothing less. There is no abuse in stating the fact of one's birth name, and especially not for a database.
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J.

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I'm in favor of IMDb allowing workaday non-celebrity actors and crew to remove personal information, such as birth names and ages, from the database. Anyone can make a YouTube video and put in on IMDb. What's to stop someone from thanking an enemy in his YouTube video, which allows him to create an IMDb name page for the guy, and put out his personal information?

But IMDb is only allowing the removal of one kind of personal information. And they're doing it because they caved in to a pressure group. I'm against caving in to pressure groups.

I hope IMDb notices that they gained NOTHING through this decision. One of the pressure groups is already calling the decision "a half-measure." The more they cave in, the more the pressure groups will demand more caving.
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Emma Arpin

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IMDb gets used as a resume in the entertainment industry, and the previous policy assisted discrimination of trans people in the industry. Lots of people who are "workaday non-celebrity actors and crew" were negatively affected by IMDb's previous policy. Also, IMDb assisted in discrimination, and to an extent still does, of people who work additional jobs outside of the entertainment industry as "workaday non-celebrities," along with other issues such as housing discrimination.
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J.

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My position is that IMDb should allow workaday non-celebrity actors and crew to remove personal information from the database if it did not appear in film credits.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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What if it was a news article in the Hollywood Reporter about that work-a-day actor. And what IS the definition of celebrity. If one person celebrates your existence, then you are celebrated. I was a minor celebrity in Drag Racing and in the Nightclub Industry in Denver in the 80's and 90's. I have signed a whole whopping 5 autographs on racing programs. So in reality celebrity is interpreted by an individual and not to be defined by an arbitrary policy.
(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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Ok, like I have logic?  You mean logical people aren't allowed here ? ?????
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Emma Arpin, just my five cents but I always thought of IMDb being used as a resume as a side effect. It was and is, first and foremost, a database. So from my point of view the process is a bit similar to, say, taking a dictionary or encyclopedia, or an archive and replacing all the legit info with resumes, with no discretion as to whether those are correct or not. It happened before you know. It, with people like Quentin Tarantino falsely putting credits/roles in Dawn of the Dead (1978) and King Lear (1987) on his resume, knowing they would be a hard thing to verify. They then ended up being on  Leonard Maltin's Movie and Video Guide and are still surface from time to time as a false fact. That is exactly what happens when people mostly treat databases and encyclopedias as promotional instruments. 
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Eboy

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I'm a strong supporter of (film/TV/video games) cast & crew credits, trivia and all the other info related to actual filmmaking process. People should recognize the historical value of IMDb, it's already huge. IMDb is not a CV or resume service (altough, as said many times before, people can of course use the site for that) and it shouldn't be controlled by agents, PR people, "Hollywood" executives or any "pressure groups" (all this generally speaking - there are total professionals in every area).

But sure, I can see the various problems related to information such as birth dates, residence, the names of a spouse and children, info of ex-wives-husbands/girl-boyfriends, divorces, criminal record issues (since now even an accusation seems to be enough - people want to add that to trivia or to biography), etc. Also "biography" is one of those areas where problems can arise quite easily. I personally feel that there's a difference between "biography" and "professional biography" and I support the latter.

I don't have any real answers, however, and I'm not sure that is this decision a good or bad thing for IMDb (maybe a bit of both?). But I do understand some issues behind it. Internet is a pretty nasty and dark place, especially nowadays. IMDb shouldn't give any additional "tools" for abuse. At least they should be very cautious with biography/trivia/etc information that is considered more "personal" than "professional" (there's a very fine line sometimes, but it's often there).
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MikeTheWhistle

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Your comment that "IMDb is not a CV or resume service" is wrong because of imdbpro. What's funny is I almost was going to comment yesterday regarding that the only reason this occurred is because imdb now gets paid by some. If it didn't, I bet the names would be there forever. Not saying if that's right or wrong, just the way it is.
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Eboy

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It’s not really wrong, since IMDB and IMDbPro are two different things. The latter is a paid service with certain benefits. It’s always best to talk about ”IMDbPro” if you refer to that service.
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Emma Arpin

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IMDbPro pulls from the same database.
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Princess Perky Pants

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Eboy  They are EXACTLY the same thing. IMDB PRO just allows pictures and self editing. Linkedin has since taken over as IMDB is intractable. There you edit your own work without nerds screaming  about missing details. 
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Luke Davies

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Hopefully a staffer can come in and answer this question but now because of this new policy, will these following articles be updated or will they remain the same?

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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OH........ THE SHAME OF IT ALL

Image result for augie doggie oh the shame of it all
(Edited)
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Luke Davies

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What?
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Yep, The Answer is Contained within the Topic!
They Will Not Reply!
Typing Is Futile!
We Will Be Assimilated!
A .5% of the population has made us Comply!
We are Borg!
(Edited)
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Luke Davies

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Ok ok ok..
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Luke Davies

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I read in another thread that iMDb is already in the middle of some california litigation to possibly remove ages too?
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Kati Knitt

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Misgendering, that's a new one.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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No, you won't. You might try but it will be Ed Wood.  Let me describe my character. 40 years in the business, supervisor, member of the Academy, negotiated with unions. 26 features, worked in Europe  and every major in the US and Canada. Bow go write it Hemingway.

And hiding behind a pseudonym. And your real name is PPP?

(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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"Would you rather me make up having a dozen trans friends??|

Making up one was enough. 

" And deny it all you want, your post did call me a name."

Now its just a name.  

"Frankly this isn't an issue that impacts me regardless." 

UHUH ! Wait for it....

"My friend committed suicide but it had nothing to do with being trans but instead with ptsd."

Well Dr Freud, so you KNOW it had nothing to do with her being trans, just PTSD. Excuse me if your assessment of a transgender persons motivations for suicide are  laughable. So 20 years ago when people  and the government were openly discrimination against trans people you somehow convinced yourself her suicide  had NOTHING TO DO WITH BRING TRANSGENDER!  You are a piece of work. 

Discussion over. 

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Princess Perky Pants

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Kati Knitt She and Patti LuPone are my heroes . Worked with Helen. 
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MikeTheWhistle

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PPP/snowflake,
I didn't see this until now, and was going to ignore it, but just for the record she left a note.  She had served in Vietnam and was haunted by what someone who has been in a war is haunted by. I know you know nothing of this because none of your comments reflect anything indicative you ever served, but that was your choice as was mine, my friend's, and many others who choose to serve so you could voice opinions.
As to the trans issue impacting the suicide, I guess I choose to assume that being in war had nothing related to her trans gender because if it did, then the whole concept of trans would be blown up because it's supposed to be about something more fundamental than just a tragic issue.
So again you fail to speak with anything inteligent, and no matter what name you choose to be here as, you fail to make any persuasive arguments as to the actual harm done to anyone is.
In fact I found a blog that gave me the best argument related to removing birth names and it's based on that unlike a stage name, someone who is trans it's not a stage name but a more fundamental name change as it's associated with a sexual identity change. Now that argument alone doesn't convince me that imdb should change it's policy, but it's a good argument and start.
See unlike you, I like to be informed and persuaded before making a decision.
And again I'm going to ignore you, although I wish I could just block you.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Tom? Where are you? You are here for this specific reason.
Waiting for your reaction to the Princesses abusive diatribe.
The last instance took 6 hours.
Faster than staff, but too slow in real time. We need three Toms!
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Princess Perky Pants

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" if this is how you try to persuade people"

I AM NOT TRYING TO PERSUADE YOU! I HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM PERSUADING YOU OR ANY OTHER PREJUDICE PERSON ON THIS FORUM! !  You aren't a jury, you decide nothing. You just purvey your common ignorance to other ignorant people who validate your ignorance.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk
(Edited)
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Emma Arpin

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People are upset because the issue is quite personal for a lot of people, MikeTheWhistle.

Yes, this is a small step toward fixing the problem. However, listing deadnames in previous credits brings up all sorts of problems, including young people who made projects in their teens with friends before they were working professionally. They would be followed by their deadname and face discrimination in the industry, side jobs, and housing. IMDb significantly lowered the bar for what qualifies for listings some years ago, around when they still ran the now failed Withoutabox.

There are other fixes, including using the most recent credit, not the first credit, which would allow the database to stay accurate, in fact more accurate.
(Edited)
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Marco

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However, listing deadnames in previous credits brings up all sorts of problems

So after this, there are more facts you feel should be removed from the database. And after that, perhaps you feel people should be able to remove their date of birth? Or do you feel that I Am Not Your Negro () should be called I Am Not Your N-word? You can't have a proper functioning database and at the same time please every group of people who - for whatever reasons, some of them perhaps even rather understandable - wants to delete information from that database. You have to choose, you can't have both.
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Marco

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However, listing deadnames in previous credits brings up all sorts of problems

So after this, there are more facts you feel should be removed from the database. And after that, perhaps you feel people should be able to remove their date of birth? Or do you feel that I Am Not Your Negro () should be called I Am Not Your N-word? You can't have a proper functioning database and at the same time please every group of people who - for whatever reasons, some of them perhaps even rather understandable - wants to delete information from that database. You have to choose, you can't have both.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Back to Bellevue

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Kati Knitt

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Cranky because you're transphobic?
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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But Communal thinking is embraced by the left. That's why I used it.
Are you saying your a conservative? A Red Hat?
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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You are misinterpreting it. Plain and simple. You have a narrow prejudicial view on things in general. You site a leftest view as bad because it does not fit "Your" narrative. I can have a debate and not stoop to calling anyone a name. You however cannot.
This is usually a sign of someone that is losing an argument.
I can control myself. You however cannot.
It makes you impossible to be found credible.
Bye Bye
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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As I said...............
This is usually a sign of someone that is losing an argument.
I can control myself. You however cannot.
It makes you impossible to be found credible.
Bye Bye


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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Bye Bye
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Unfollow this thread
Delete your account
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Luke Davies

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Not sure.. i’m still trying to figure that out
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ACT_1

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On or Off topic here ? ?

Caitlyn Jenner
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0421063/
Born: October 28, 1949 in Mount Kisco, New York, USA
Birth Name : William Bruce Jenner

In June of 2015,
she completed her public gender transition
and introduced herself as Caitlyn Jenner
with an article and photo shoot in Vanity Fair magazine.

Actress: Movie (5 credits)
2014 - The Hungover Games  - Skip Bayflick (as Bruce Jenner)
2011/I - Jack and Jill - Bruce Jenner (as Bruce Jenner)
1999 - The Big Tease - Bruce Jenner (as Bruce Jenner)
1990 - A Man Called Sarge - Special Appearance (as Bruce Jenner)
1980 - Can't Stop the Music - Ron White (as Bruce Jenner)
- - -

Bruce Jenner Was an Actor way back then...
.

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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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There are both.
Before and after.

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Princess Perky Pants

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No Caitlyn Jenner suffered from GID since 1972 according to her first wife. There was no Bruce. 
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Princess Perky Pants, not arguing that, but there were credits which said Bruce Jenner. There's certain legality of name and credits in this world which I'm not too happy about myself, so saying that "there was no Bruce" just does not work in this world, figuartively. And yes, we live in an imperfect crapsack dystopian world in which most of Earth's population still have way too much problems which they should not. We should not have as much problems with legally confirming who we are and who we are not as well as having that much problems thinking about credits in movies.  

Using your logic actual person named Divine never existed, but that's how Harris Glen Milstead was nearly always credited. And just in case: no, Divine reportedly never had GID, so in this case his birth name applies. Although IMDb trivia is perpetually confused and refers to Divine as both her and him, depending on perspective.  
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Princess Perky Pants

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Look  Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin),  I don't have time to time to explain the difference between a drag queen and a transsexual. Divine was Glens character, he never changed his name, never claimed to be transsexual. To spend more time here when the ignorance is so deep is a waste. Bigots and the incompetent  mod  who doesn't know the job make the discussion impossible.   Here in this world tyrants you do what you want. Lie, insult, make up bullshit.This is nothing but a fan run bullshit factory. Sorry but that is the truth. Have  great day making up nonsense. 
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Photo of Ed Jones (XLIX)

Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Bderoes. Where are these removals please?
Thanks.
Take your ............ and Shove it?



Nerds being used in a derogatory hurtful manner. Purposeful Intention.




Where is your action on these?
Please be fair.
Thanks
:):)
Ed
(Edited)
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Princess Perky Pants

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And this bigot ....
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Princess Perky Pants

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Yeah let be fair so a jerk who belittles transgender people. Here is the thing Ed , you Marco and Mike will be here going at it for the rest of your lives. Little snowflakes :) 
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Snowflake is a 2010s derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly-emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions. Common usages include the terms special snowflake, Generation Snowflake, and snowflake as a politicized insult.

If you don't know when or where the term applies???????????????
You have used another derogatory reference!
Mirror Time!
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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And that's my last for you.
You have not won the argument.
You have only made a small step.
Don't push your point too harshly as you will become what you despise..
(Edited)
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Luke Davies

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Dear Imdb,

Please continue with your policy, keep all valid information on this website permanently
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Marco

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keep all valid information on this website permanently

I second this.
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Luke Davies

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Those articles I presented earlier have remained the same, so maybe the new policy won’t have any affect on the valid info never getting removed from the site..
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ACT_1

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 ? ?


https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/imdb-needs-to-stop-deadnaming-trans-people

IMDb needs to stop deadnaming trans people
IMDb should not put trans people’s old names out there.
The site should make an exception for the policy
of not removing factual information,
since this is extremely disrespectful
to all trans people working in the film industry....

Kati Knitt
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/people/kati_knitt
Posted 3 months ago (May 27 2019)

This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies.
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- - -

Poll: How do you think IMDb should handle birth/other pre-transition names of transgender people?
Kelly L.
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/people/kelly_l_6500954
Posted 7 months ago (Jan 27 2019)
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(Edited)

This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies.