Archive footage

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How do I add this actress? The guidelines didn't help me.
Dietrich, Marlene (I) appearing as Lola Lola in a scene from "Der blaue Engel" in a documentary.
Real archive footage, not just seen on a magazine or on TV screen.

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Mecki

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Posted 2 months ago

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bderoes, Champion

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You should make sure "Der blaue Engel" is listed on the Connections page. If not, include a description like "clip of Marlene Dietrich as Lola Lola".

I may get contradicted on this one, but I would add Dietrich to the cast, with character Lola Lola, and attribute "(archive footage)".
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Phil G

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Firstly, add a "features/featured in" movie connection between the two titles if it doesn't already exist.

Next, is she credited on-screen in the documentary? If not, stop here. The movie connection is all that's needed, an additional listing for the actress would not be eligible (the movielink rule).

If she is credited on-screen for the newer title, however, then this overrides any exceptions in the archive footage guide. In this case you can simply add her to the cast as normal, but with the (archive footage) attribute.
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Mecki

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This is a tough one (for me).

She is neither listed in the credits nor marked via subtitles, however she is named by the narrator.

While trying to add the movie connection I was shown a help site how to choose the type. I would choose "edited from/into" because the footage was really edited into and not simply seen on a TV. Sadly the help page states that "edited from/into" has to be without reference to the earlier movie. But the narrator clearly mentions this.

Concerning the movielink rule: the footage is no prologue or flashback in a sequel or subsequent title in a series - it is just footage of an old movie.
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Phil G

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She is neither listed in the credits nor marked via subtitles, however she is named by the narrator.
There are special rules for what counts as 'credited' in documentaries, but I've never got to grips with them since I don't usually deal with that sort of title, so I'll have to leave this for someone else to answer.

This guide for movie connections?  Personally, I don't think it's written as clearly as it could be (not that I could do any better, I'm no writer!) and there seems to be some overlap between the types.  For now, I'll stand by my earlier statement that 'features' is the appropriate one here (I think 'seen on a TV', etc is just an example, not the only use of it), unless anyone has better ideas.

And for the movielink rule, again I believe the guide just gives examples, not intended to be a complete list.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Mecki, in documentaries oral announcement with complete or incomplete name accompanied by archive footage usually counts as a credit, hence section G. in guidelines: "For documentaries or talk shows where the people appearing on camera are generally not in a separate cast list, their first onscreen appearance where they are identified either by a caption or spoken name is used to determine the order". It's weird that it's mostly covered by this section, but that's how it usually done hence another rule in section C.: "The "Bowling for Columbine" rule: If the film is a documentary and the archive footage is an integral/essential part of the story/topic, it qualifies (which means that even if he didn't appear as himself towards the end of the film, Charlton Heston's NRA rally footage would be enough to qualify as a valid "archive footage" entry, while Willie Horton's brief clip from the old anti-Dukakis campaign ad probably wouldn't)". 
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Mecki

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Wow. Thank you very much.
With such ambiguous written rules, how is one supposed to know how to make additions the correct way, if there wouldn't be you guys, who were helping so much? Thanks again.

I submitted the addition right now and I hope the reason I entered is ok.
190925-200021-854000


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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Mecki a note of importance: hyperlinks work in Movie connections, so submission could and probably should have been "[link=nm0000017] singing a song" which would result in neat "Marlen Dietrich singing a song". :) 
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Phil G

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how is one supposed to know how...
I've learnt a lot of what I know right here (and before that on the old Contributors' Help Message Boards, which sadly no longer exist)... and I'm still learning! I guess I haven't paid enough attention to connections before, it never occurred to me that we could include links there, but now I know - thanks Nikolay!
(Edited)
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Eboy

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I’m far from expert when it comes to movie connections, but I would (also) say that it’s probably ”features”.


”features = extracts from a previous movie are featured (not just stills or sounds)”

( ”Edited” means something different. )


( https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...# )
(Edited)
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Mecki

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[link=nm0000017] singing a song
Superb! I will keep that in mind. And if my unperfect submission will be accepted, I will submit the addition of the link.
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Mecki

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And because oral announcement with name accompanied by archive footage usually counts as a credit, I am allowed to add her to the cast section?
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bderoes, Champion

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And also add her to the cast?
The problem with Connections is that you can't search by the description (to my knowledge).
Nor does a link tie it back to the Name page.
So if someone is looking for where they can see MD, that might come up on a google search, but not on IMDb.
Hence my preference to include such people in the cast when they are announced.

[Then again, I've had to REMOVE someone from the cast when they were INCORRECTLY announced. So don't trust every announcement. Or trust, but verify.]
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Mecki

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I know how she looks like (who doesn't?) and I know "der blaue Engel", so the only question is, can I trust myself? I hope so ;)
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Mecki

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Should I add her as "Lola Lola (in Der blaue Engel) (archive footage)"
or just as "Lola Lola (archive footage)"

maybe even as "Lola Lola (in [link=tt0020697]) (archive footage)"
(Edited)
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bderoes, Champion

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I've never seen a link in a character name. I don't think that field supports links, and why should it? Normally the character is in the title for which the cast member is listed.

I suspect the Edit form will complain about () in the character field, and they probably aren't necessary.

Wait for another person to opine about this, but I like
character: Lola Lola in Der blaue Engel 
or just Lola Lola
attribute: (archive footage)
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Mecki

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Yes, maybe the name field will not support links. I don't know so far.
But the character ist listed in the credits of the film, which is connected to the archive film, and this archive film would be in the link.
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Mecki

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The cast addition has already been accepted:



It took a little while longer, but finally the connection has been approved also: