Archive footage crew deletions being rejected when such credits are no longer allowed on IMDb.

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On examining the crew credits on-screen for a best-of episode of a series (actually more like a standalone special), I find a few credits that are for archive footage (the best-of material, credited as "flashbacks"), but they are listed on the IMDb page without that attribute. When I add that attribute in the edit box it gives me an error saying IMDb no longer accepts crew credits for archive footage, and I can't submit it. But when I submit a deletion instead, it's declined with an "unable to verify" reason.

There was one other crew credit on the page that doesn't appear on screen, and it looks like it might possibly be uncredited but only for the archive footage, though I see no evidence of this and how would one prove an uncredited crew member anyway? That person appears on some previous episodes. Deletion of this, which I think is proper, is declined with an "unable to verify" which is kind of duh that's why I'm deleting it.

Also there are 2 crew credits (writers category) that are listed on the page as "created by", which I think should only be on the main series page, right? They apply to the best-of/flashbacks/archive footage anyway, so they should be deleted for that reason. In any case, those credits don't appear on-screen on this episode. (Their names appear for other credits as "written by".) But the deletions were declined with "unable to verify", another duh.

I also have an unrelated problem with an addition to crew, but it's on the same title so I'll include it here. There are 2 crew credits on-screen which I added to the page, as they were missing. One was accepted (Lighting Director), the other declined (a second Editor, as there are two) for yeah you guessed it unable to bloody verify. Why one and not the other? This one can at least be verified on-screen, as it's not a deletion, it's not a negative.

Title is tt0291751. My submission number for everything is 200413-004110-735000.

The biggest obvious problem is how do you verify a negative? The credits that don't appear on-screen should never have been accepted in the first place, and the archive footage credits should never have been added without that attribute. They all should be deleted.
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GoodFlixGary

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Posted 5 months ago

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GoodFlixGary

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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion replied:

 Also there are 2 crew credits (writers category) that are listed on the page as "created by", which I think should only be on the main series page, right?

No, not right in the slightest. Each episode should feature full credit transcripts when it comes to cast and crew. The only exceptions whould be co-called shell episodes, in cases when episodes of other series are featured. The only case that comes to my mind to illustrate that from the top of my head is "The Master" (1984) episodes featured on "Mystery Science Theater 3000" (1988-1999).

Regarding situation as a whole: archive footage crew credits are usually not permitted per IMDb guidelines, except, of course, cases when they are actually credited (despite being archive footage) plus some case-to-case exceptions in which most of the movie is archive footage, although they also usually only use credited crew. Refer to Arrow: Year One (2013) as an example: a TV movie comprised with compressed footage of the first season of "Arrow" (2012-2020).


@Nikolay:

Hi Nikolay, glad to get a reply from you. All I ever see is you "like" every one of my posts, but you never say anything. Was wondering. :)

Perhaps I didn't explain the problem well. The two "created by" credits are NOT credited in the title in question. Why would they even be included, then? Uncredited cast can be included, but they must have the attribute "uncredited". But uncredited crew should never be included, right? I was asking if there was an exception to this for the "created by" attribute.

Also in this case the "created by" credits would only refer to the archive footage, another reason they should be removed.

As for the "archive footage" problem, let me explain it more specifically. In the on-screen credits it specifically lists crew credits as archive footage ("flashback" sequences), separately from the main credits. But in the IMDb listing those names are listed without the "archive footage" attribute. When I tried to add that attribute, I got an error that said archive attributes for crew are no longer allowed on IMDb. Therefore they must be deleted.

When I then submitted a deletion, it was rejected with a dumb "unable to verify" message.

Either the "archive footage" attribute MUST be added (forced on by staff if necessary), or those credits MUST be deleted (per new policy). Those credits can't be left as is.

There were a couple other things you didn't address; they referred to crew included on the IMDb listing that are NOT credited on-screen (like the two writer created by credits, but there were a couple others as well). Those should be deleted as well, I would think, unless an "uncredited" attribute can be added (I think the system will block uncredited for crew too). But when I submitted such a deletion, it was rejected for "unable to verify". You can't verify a negative. These credits were erroneously added in the first place; they can't be verified that's why they SHOULD be deleted. Like I said, it's rather a "duh" situation.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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This is now the 4th posting of the same topic.
Crew deletions being rejected. "Archive footage" crew no longer allowed.
Archive footage crew deletions being rejected when such credits are no longer allowed on IMDb.
Archive footage crew deletions being rejected when such credits are no longer allowed on IMDb.



He is trying to bury my questions about his motives towards this database.
He is attempting to revise accurate information on multiple titles by trying to enforce current rules, which are in some cases the same as the old rules by "Gaslighting" editors and employees.

Please read.

When will someone at IMDb realize that this individual is NOT a contributor, but someone that is constantly attacking well established accepted credits by by twisting IMDb's own confusing rules. He is not out to make the database better. He is out to make the database abide by it's rules. As interpreted by him.

In this case, these credits were accepted under the old rules, or were added on an exception basis, which is still valid today. But he does use current rules, and "gaslights" data editors into believing that his interpretation is correct. While he is correct in only one part of the rule interpretation, he is wrong in the spirit of inclusion of valid data based on the "we reserve the right to make exceptions for special cases as we see fit" part of the same guidelines. He is also attempting to decimate valid input from past contributors, that contributed in good faith that data, and was approved by previous data editors. He has no intention on Improving this database.

If he was "concerned" at all with this databases accuracy, he would have never made the attempt to delete the crew listings whatsoever. He would and should have come here first seeking guidance. But No. Delete is the next option when he cannot correct a credit.

How much damage has been done by him because there is no oversight of this contributor?

Granted, this contributor has a valid point about the inconsistency of staffs acceptance or declination of submissions based on the rules in the guides, but that is no excuse for his reasoning for outright deletion submissions, based on his frustration level with the databases inaction, or the contribution interface blocking his submissions.

IMDb Editors ask yourself this question. What is so important about this episode, that makes it so imperative for to him to correct and remove something (Crew credits) that in reality needed only the inclusion of two missing credits? Those "Archive footage attributes" are not really wrong. He needs to seek assistance here and ask what to do, not submit deletes. Please note that this is the second sentence in the rules currently for "Archive Credits". He chooses to ignore this and deems himself the arbiter of interpretation of this exception. Not you the IMDb Editor, nor any past employee of IMDb, that made the decision >>>>as they saw fit<<<< to include this in the first place.

A reprint of the rule and it's URL.
https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/archive-footage/G4X4TVH6HXYBW8WM?ref_...#
Essentially, we allow or exclude archive footage credits based on the following guidelines (it's implied that we reserve the right to make exceptions for special cases >>>>as we see fit<<<<):


In conclusion, this contributor needs to be flagged for the highest scrutiny, and his so called contributions need to be scrutinized only by data editors with the highest level of experience.
Thank you.
(Edited)