A Sincere Appeal to User List Creators

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Dear IMDb and Fellow Listees: 

I would like appeal to fellow listees to support the implementation of upgrades to the user-list feature on IMDb.

Though responsible for millions of views a month, it is no secret a number of changes to user-lists over the years has been detrimental to the overall user-list experience. My fear is user-lists may become redundant unless action is taken to enhance this feature.

Here is a previous thread that relates to this issue: getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/the-related-user-lists-for-a-specific-movie-has-become-useless-to-find-similar-movies-to-watch

If you think this is relevant to yourself, please show your support.
Thanks. 
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Dr-Faustus

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Posted 3 months ago

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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And what if one thinks differently than you?
I happen to agree and disagree with you.
User lists are what they are.
Rules need not exist to suit some small minority on lists.
I have actually gleaned some useful information from "Those Large" lists you show such disdain for.
Annoying to me is small related lists.
Or as you say lists that are totally unrelated and run of in a million different directions. Those are not wanted. I Agree.
But what is your solution?

You have a complaint. Yes.
To quote you.....
"I would like appeal to fellow listees [sic] to support the implementation of upgrades to the user-list feature on IMDb."

While it may be nice to have an idea, it is also good to present an implementable plan.
Unfortunately, you have none that we can as you say, "please show your support" for!

Who's gonna write the software?
Who's gonna decide what's relevant or not?
Who's gonna field the complaints when someone is unhappy that a list is left out, or when someone is unhappy that a list "IS" not left out, or when they are certain that some arbitrary rule was unfairly applied to their hard work?

Conclusion:

You have an idea alright.
You will undoubtedly get a few to agree with your assessment.
But you will never get this implemented because of the animosity it would create.
Nice Idea = Extrapolated bad results overall!
(Edited)
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Ed Jones

Support includes the implementation of ideas. Support means if people acknowledge there is a problem they are willing to express this and support change.

You, yourself, acknowledge there is a problem. Instead of being critical why not try and be constructive? I am sure you can put forward some helpful ideas if you try.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I extrapolated what your idea would bring forth.
Unnecessary conflict.
It's that simple.

Re-quoting myself in case you glossed over why it wont work.

Who's gonna decide what's relevant or not?
Who's gonna field the complaints when someone is unhappy that a list is left out, or when someone is unhappy that a list "IS" not left out, or when they are certain that some arbitrary rule was unfairly applied to their hard work?


Also, to Quote you...
Why not put forward ideas that are constructive?
Why should my replies only be constructive.
Are realistic observations out of bounds?
Are you suggesting I be silent if I have an opinion?
Or even worse, should I be silent if it does not agree with you?
And quite frankly my suggestions were constructive.
Why you ask?
Because they pointed out the conflicts that will arise if "your" idea were to ever be implemented.
Avoiding conflict is a constructive idea....Thank you very much!

And I'm done commenting.
On both threads.
Thanks.
But your making me restate the obvious.
I will not allow this to escalate.
We need to agree to disagree.
Cheers
:):)
(Edited)
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Dr-Faustus

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That's great Ed Jones. My sentiments exactly. Glad we could find some common ground.
Cheers - and have a nice day.
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bderoes, Champion

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The thread you highlight is a collection of many related threads about Related User Lists. Unfortunately, the root post does not propose a specific suggestion, so voting "for" the Idea has no meaning to me. 

I suspect that, to find a useful list, the user has to scan the titles of the lists offered and see what appeals to them. Having a voting system just invites trolls who downvote based on prejudices. Having a popularity system just perpetuates the lists that reach popular-critical-mass the soonest, and blocks future great lists.

So we would need multiple ways to sort the Related User Lists (Useful, Popular, Recent, other?), like Reviews.

And IMDb doesn't actually show us all the user lists. They reserve the right to omit some, and limit the display to 1000.

We used to have a Like button on lists, but I think it was a Facebook thing, and you had to go to Facebook to see which lists you had Liked, but I never found such a feature. And Like been gone for quite a while. 

I agree that I use Related Lists less now than in the past. But I don't even want to read through all 24 ideas in that thread to Like individual posts. 

But if someone comes up with a great idea, I'd support it.

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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My sentiments exactly.
There is but an "idea" presented here.
It has no structure or viable implementation plan.
It does however present challenges that have yet to be addressed as you mention above.
One of those is the glaring "troll" issue.
That would create the disharmony I mentioned.
I too would support a "Great Idea" if one was presented.
This so far falls far short of being "Great"
Thanks
:):)
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Dr-Faustus

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You have misunderstood the real purpose of this thread. Please refer to my reply to bderoes, for clarity.

Thanks
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi bderoes

The purpose of this thread was not created to accumulate likes, but to appeal to people, such as yourself, who have both know-how and are willing to put forward suggestions to improve the user-list experience. I apologize if I did not make that clear in my initial comment.

As you have discussed in your post, I think a feature similar to that found on "User Reviews" is a great option. Do you have any further views on this? And do you think it possible IMDb may consider implementing such a feature on "User-Lists"?

Your response will be much appreciated.
Thanks


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bderoes, Champion

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One of the problems with lists is that they are potentially dynamic: additions/deletions can occur constantly. So I can appreciate the difficulty of IMDb having to keep track of all lists which include title X.

In addition, because lists are dynamic, the list that I happen to like today might morph into something that no longer appeals to me.

Although reviews can be edited, I imagine most remain the same. So if I found it helpful at some point, that vote is valid so long as the helpful element remains.

Would a "helpful at the moment" rating remain valid as the list morphs? Seems more vulnerable to losing the thing that I found helpful about it.

These days I'm more prone to finding a list helpful for its factual content, such as a list of titles in a particular box set, or titles on a non-IMDb list. I don't find such lists within IMDb, but by googling IMDb.

I make lists for my own purposes, and make some (actually most of them) public in case a stranger might benefit, or in case I need to share it with someone I know. And maybe that means I contribute to the clutter of excess lists that might be better kept private. After all, if there were fewer public lists, and if they had better names, this thread might not exist.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi bderoes

Thank-you for your insight. The harder one thinks how a user-list feature can be implemented the more complexities seem to arise. I know some may find this trivial, but their are a number of listees that take some pride in creating topical lists and sharing those with the public. Speaking on behalf of others; It is a pity though, many lists of substance do not find an audience due to the current system.

Anyway bderoes, thanks for your help.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Now I will address this from my viewpoint, which I left out.
My addresses above were of an overall nature.

I have as you can see here a fair amount of lists.............


I make these lists for what was known as the IMDb Daily Poll. Currently IMDb Polls.
I DO NOT want voting by anybody as this may push my poll lists away from the natural order that now exists, nor do I want another persons list displaced because mine is more popular.
Selfish and selfless all in one!!! How thoughtful of me, if I do say so myself!!!! LOL
While bderoes makes a very good point that lists may change over time, and as a result what was once liked, is now disliked. You have not even addressed the fact that if just one change is made on a list it becomes a different list. Therefor that list should theoretically start over again is if it was new and the voting would recommence. Yikes!
What if someone who made a list and it got crummy voting just exported that list, then re-imported that very same list giving it a new list number??? How do you stop that?
Now you have created two almost identical lists because of your idea. We have this very problem already in the reviews. Yes people leave multiple reviews for the same title! They do this for one and only one reason. Hoping that one of those reviews has the most upvotes!

My reward in making lists is that the IMDb Poll Board finds those lists I create worthy of becoming a Poll.

I don't do too bad. I have about a 20% use rate from my created lists.

But my lists sometimes can be Way Way out there in the relation of one title to another. So my lists would be in essence useless to most users, but in my world they make perfect sense. So when a person looks at one of my related lists, and really reads the Title and Descriptions and the link provided in the description, it provides a way for the person viewing the list information about a feature that that user may not be aware of. Polls.....
Since you did not even address the lists of the IMDb Poll Board at all, leads me to believe that you need to do better research before you make up ideas without having in place a fully fleshed out idea.

I gave you enough space to actually agree with bderoes suggestion, that she would support a really great idea. That was a hint to you that the "Great" was missing.
How many reasons must one point out to you that "Your Idea" is not even close to great nor will it do nothing but create more problems than it is worth?

And this is all I need to show that my lists are OK. It is in the bottom right of this picture. The list activity views. Oh and in case your wondering, this list was made a live poll at midnight PST in the USA. https://www.imdb.com/poll/G-9Y6fWanNc/




(Edited)
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Dr-Faustus

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HI Ed

You are very consistent in pointing out issues, yet, until now, you have not offered any solutions. One can therefor conclude, either you do not want to see changes implemented or, you simply cannot come up with any solutions.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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You are very consistent in pointing out issues, yet, until now, you have not offered any solutions. One can therefor conclude, either you do not want to see changes implemented
You got that right. No changes. Not my Idea. It's your incomplete idea.


By the way....................
The "Solution" is obvious!
As Nancy Reagan, our first Lady once said, "Just Say No"
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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We don't need a voting system. We already have one.
List views.






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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Here's an Idea I'd vote for.

List users... Please voluntarily make private your low activity/views............Lists.

Or a system that automatically determines after a fixed time period a way to sort lists by views. Say 1 year. Also if your views are below a set number after that year, it automatically becomes a private list.
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Dr-Faustus

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In response to your previous post, above:

If you bothered to read my earlier post - as pointed out earlier - the purpose of this thread is to appeal to creative people who can put forward creative ideas to improve the user-list experience.

As I have pointed out, you either do not want to see changes implemented (for reasons of your own), or you simply do not have the ability to come up with any solutions. And if you do not have any solutions, why are you consistently trolling this thread?

Unless I am vastly mistaken, Getsatisfaction is a site where one should be able to get help. And if that is true, you are violating the very fundamentals of what this site thrives to do. You sir do not dictate what policy IMDb decides upon, or the changes they decide to implement on their site. That is a decision entirely in the hands of IMDb staff and owners.

Here is a quote by the late great Muhammad Ali that I think is very applicable to this situation:

"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it.
Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion.
Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare.
Impossible is potential.
Impossible is temporary.
Impossible is nothing." - Muhammad Ali.

P.S: I am editing this post to point out in the process of creating the above, Ed suddenly puts forward an idea. Simply as a means to counteract this response. I see right through you Ed. I hope others do too.
(Edited)
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi Ed 

Alright, let's see what your idea entails: "Please voluntarily make private your low activity/views" - I doubt very much users will go for that. 

I must admit your second suggestion sounds more feasible. However, list-sorting based on views had been in use until it proved unproductive and IMDb resorted to the new algorithm based system. Maybe one can incorporate number of views and an up/down voting system to establish ranking and do away with a present list function that may cause conflict in this area? 

Anyway, regardless of your intentions, thanks for posting your idea.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Maybe one can incorporate number of views and an up/down voting system to establish ranking and do away with a present list function that may cause conflict in this area?

Look, you and I have been keeping this thread alive. Other than you, NO ONE is supporting this idea.
This is not trolling. It's only trolling by your definition. Every time you have a reply I debate your reply. That is not trolling nor is it a violation of get satisfactions TOU. I have thoroughly read sections 1 and 4 of that TOU. Also calling me out for trolling is labeling me a troll. That IS in violation of section 4. Please refrain from labeling persons trolls Thank You.

No Up/Down Voting
End Transmission.
Your just sore that this has no support.
I need not reply further nor debate you any longer on this lost cause of an idea.
Please refrain from repeating yourself.
I will if you will.
Thanks
Cheers
:):)
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Dr-Faustus

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First off: If there is a post on this subject I am going to answer it. That is not a violation of Get Satisfaction policy but what this site was created for. If you don't wish to post on this thread - Don't. Simple as that.

Secondly: Do you think I used the term trolling on a whim? I first consulted the Get Satisfaction Community Guidelines, read the definition of internet troll on Wikipedia, and consulted an acquaintance who is well-versed on the subject. In view of this I stick by my convictions. Regardless of any consequences thereof. You know what they say; It is far better to die standing than living a life on your knees.

And lastly, you know very well it is you yourself that is sore. The manner of your response proves it.

Anyway, thanks for all your constructive input.
It was a real pleasure talking to you.


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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Secondly: Do you think I used the term trolling on a whim
You sure did check you PC manners at the door when you entered the room.

Whim is not the description.
Poor judgment is however.
Please apologize for name calling.
It is Hurtful.
By the way, whether you do or do not is unimportant.
It's your rep that is for all to see here.
I have debated you on this issue with respect.
It is you and only you that resorted to name calling.

This is no longer worth following.
Reason....you have no support for this.
This thread will be here for a long time.
If it has any support from more than 10 long time get satisfaction users with more than 1 year of membership I'd be surprised.
Thanks
Cheers
:):)
(Edited)
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Dr-Faustus

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As I predicted, you have once again returned to this thread, to an issue you have made very clear you have no interest in. Or wish to contribute to.

You have now made it abundantly clear that this is a clear case of harassment and trolling. This, as you are well aware of, is not the first time you have exhibited this type of behavior. You already have a number of complaints to your credit. In other words, a history of behavioral issues.

In view of the above, I respectfully ask you to cease and desist.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I think I just said that already.

This is no longer worth following.
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Dr-Faustus

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Yes, ad nauseam. For a second time: I respectfully ask you to cease and desist.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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I have. As requested. As stated. For the 3rd time.
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Dr-Faustus

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I hope you are aware you are in violation of Get Satisfaction policy. So, for the third time: I respectfully ask you to cease and desist.
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bderoes, Champion

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I'll post this here first to see if any useful comments are made.

Draft Idea: Metalists

I would like a way to bookmark/like/categorize lists I find useful.
I realize I can do that with folders in my browser, but how would people viewing IMDb on an App do that?

So I propose a new list type: Metalist.
  1. A Metalist would have a title and a description as current lists do. But the entries on a Metalist would be the location of title/name/image lists on IMDb.
  2. Each public list on IMDb would need a dropdown + button so I can select the Metalist on which I want to save it.
  3. Perhaps we need 3 types of Metalist, one for each type of list.
  4. It would be nice to allow Advanced Search to access a Metalist, and search for titles/names included/excluded on any of the lists appearing there.
  5. For the Related User Lists feature on title/name pages, lists appearing on Metalist(s) could be prioritized toward the front of the Related feature (based on the assumption that the list was Metalisted for a good reason.)
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